35mm Movie Camera for Students

[DivXExpert]

What would be a good, fairly inexpensive camera(s) to start with? Is there somewhat of a standard in student cameras? Like the Pentax K-1000 for movie cameras? Also maybe some website about, film developing prices, and just newb stuff.
I have done alot of video, and I'm tired of it.

edit: I would probably want something that winds up, so it would independent of external power. But I don't know if they even make stuff like that.

[yoda313]

Hello,
Have you tried ebay yet? Also do a net search for used film equipment. I'm sure there should be a ton out there (especially since digital movie cameras are going to start being the norm).

Try the big hollywood studio sites. They may sell used equipment. Try mgm, paramount, fox etc... You never know until you look.

Kevin

[housepig]

from the limited amount I know about film cameras, you will pay through the nose for a 35mm movie camera.

most of the film students and amateur filmmakers I know work with 16mm, where the film, camera and developing costs are much more "entry-level".

but I think for the price of a cheap, used 35mm, you could get a pro-sumer DV cam brand new.

one avenue you should check - if you have public-access TV or a college with a film program in your area, signing up with either or both may get you access to borrowing cameras.

[The village idiot]

Do you really need a film camera?

If so, then look around for used Nikon F4 or F5, maybe the pro EOS cameras from Canon too. The used prices on all film cameras is so unbelieveably low, like 25 cents on the dollar. Then you will have good lenses for when you want to step up to a good digital SLR. You can also get really nice medium format cameras for next to nothing these days, and those would be a better film camera. The larger size film will allow better scans. Most colleges have been selling, dumping their film machines, so you might better check if you really need film or digital. Where I work, they have removed all but a couple film processors, and I know RIT has been selling their cameras/lenses for bargin prices.
It is truly a buyers market for used film equipment.

[gitreel]

Why not just get an aps camera?

It is 27mm instead of 35.

[The village idiot]

Wait. I just re-read your subject line. The Pentax K-1000 is not a motion picture camera. It is a still camera.

What are you really looking for?

Motion film stuff is still commanding a fairly high price, even for 16mm.

[housepig]

quick peek at eBay shows me 20+ cameras, ranging from $400 - 50,000.

the brand that I recognize (Arriflex) is the $50K one....

[DivXExpert]

the village idiot
I was using the Pentax K-1000 as a refrence of standard. As in every student is encouraged to use that camera or similar cameras when they are starting out. But, I am looking for a movie camera. Since 35mm is so expensive maybe 16mm is better choice. I know the Pentax K-1000 is only a still camera, I was just saying that it is "the" student still camera to get. And I was wondering what is "the" student movie to get. If its 16mm thats fine. I don't know much about cinema equipment. I just figured that 35mm was pretty standard. Yep, looking for a movie camera. Already have a nice film SLR. Don't need another (yet).

I guess some popular brand names would be nice. I don't know. How expensive are we talking for 16mm. Maybe even 8mm is better? I just don't like the digital look of DV material. Even Canon GL2s and XL1s have a sortof digital look, that even low-end film beats. And I figure it would be a very good learning point, and such.

[DivXExpert]

Its not really demanding how many mm it is. I am just a poor highschool student.

[DivXExpert]

gitreel
APS cameras are still cameras, I'm looking for motion film. And I have really gotten used to my fully manual SLR, and working in a darkroom and such, so I don't really have a need for that.

[housepig]

cheapest point to start would be 8mm - you can find cameras at garage sales, talk to older relatives (I have a 8mm rig - camera, projector and editing block - coming from one of my wife's uncles when he cleans out his closet). even the local oddball store near me sells 8mm cameras for around $20-30... and that's a retail store.

I have a book on movie photography that came out just before video cameras hit big, I'll see what brands / models it recommends for 8mm and 16mm.

[DivXExpert]

yep, it looks like i'm going 8mm. Due to costs. I know I can do video for cheaper. And I have a miniDV camera. But I really just want the experience of working with film. Plus the asthetics of it are unmatched in my opinion.

Thanks housepig. You are always tons of help.

Yeah, so some brand names, and stuff might be good. and i don't know what all i will need. Probably some sort of external audio recording device that syncs up? And what about editing? A pair is scissors and some splicing tape?

[The village idiot]

You will not like 8mm. The frame rate is much slower than the larger sized films. 16 to 18 frames per second, depending on the format. For smooth motion you will need to find a 16mm. Arri and Bolex come to mind. I'm sure google could produce a few more manufacturers. Processing is going to kill you, not cheap at all, and neither is the film.

[The village idiot]

I was bored, so I went looking. These are some that I would consider, if I was looking for something. Please note, I know nothing about these cameras, do some research before buying.

overall search:
http://search.ebay.com/16mm_Film-Cameras_W0QQsofocusZbsQQsbrftogZ1QQcatrefZC2QQfromZR1...trypageZsearch

items of note (some without sound/TC!):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4691&item=3834725194&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4691&item=3834114296&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4691&item=3834297071&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4691&item=3834641963&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4691&item=3834647318&rd=1

The broken one with sync sound looks really inviting, but I like to fix things too.

[housepig]

divx -

take a look at The Book of Movie Photography, by David Cheshire. (I found my copy in a used bookstore for about $5.00, and my local library has a few copies, yours might too.)

it's got tons of good information, as well as a lot of technical references - it's got comparison charts for 8mm, super 8 and 16mm, as well as conversion tables for reel size = fps = total time, etc. etc. etc.

if you can't locate a copy, let me know and I'll scan the comparison charts for 16mm and send them to you.

[DivXExpert]

It should all be 24fps. Who made up the standard for 8mm? I don't want to be shooting like Charlie Chaplin, and looking like I'm on crack. Maybe an 8mm modified to 24fps. but maybe not.

Guess I'm going to have to find a deal on a 16mm. Also. what do I do about sound? And editing? Pair of scissors, and some tape? How much does it cost to get the stuff developed? Where do you get film?

[The village idiot]

If I was looking for that kind of info, I would google different words and ideas for hours. You should be able to pull enough keywords from that Ebay search to keep you occupied for days.

And yes, I did actually scroll through all 5 pages from that ebay search, and click on any that looked interesting..

[DivXExpert]

I was just looking, and I found many 8mm cameras that have 24 and 36 fps. Looks like that might not be so bad. But they all seem to look like a little Star Wars gun, I wonder if they make any 8mm cameras that don't have a trigger, and just look like normal cameras.

[JohnnyCNote]

Is there a specific reason you want to go with film? Several recent movies have been shot on digital video with excellent results. One that comes to mind is "28 Days Later". Now that you can get a decent result, video offers many advantages over film. The high end 3-CCD digital camcorders give great results.

The main two are that it's a lot cheaper than film and you can get immediate results. If you shoot in film, you have to wait for it to be processed. If it gets messed up, or there's a problem with a shot, you have to go back and shoot again. With video you can determine on the spot if it's good or not.

It also offers better options for editing. The industry is slowly moving towards video. If you have your heart set on film, 16mm is the way to go. 35mm is VERY expensive. Most film schools use 16mm, and you can get a decent result, but even 16mm is a lot more expensive than video....

[BJ_M]

16mm used/new bolex - if you are going with film, is the standard (i have one with a turret and real nice zoom) ... they are used the world over and last forever ..

..

or shoot in dvcam or minidv ..

a used 35mm motion picture camera is expensive for a real one - used or new ... and the developing costs will make you puke ..

ussually you just rent a 35mm when you need it - even most all the studios do this ..

[yoda313]

Hello,

Episode 2 Attack of the Clones was the first (or almost) live action movie to be shot entirely on digital video. Sony helped develop the camera. I saw it in a digital theater and it was AMAZING. The consumer digital handycams I'm sure are improving all the time.

Kevin

[BJ_M]

Hello,

Episode 2 Attack of the Clones was the first (or almost) live action movie to be shot entirely on digital video. Sony helped develop the camera. I saw it in a digital theater and it was AMAZING. The consumer digital handycams I'm sure are improving all the time.

Kevin

big big diff. between the 100,000$+ cameras that were used in E2, A of the Clones and minidv ...

[JohnnyCNote]

This is what I had in mind:

Panasonic AG-DVX100A



• 1/3" 3-CCD Mini-DV camcorder with exclusive CineSwitchTM technology

• Outstanding sensitivity: F11 @2000 lux, min illumination: 3 lux (at +18dB)

• Supports 480i/60 (NTSC), Cinema-style 480p/24fps, and 480p/30fps image capture

• Precision wide-angle Lens with Servo/Manual Zoom (with stops & barrel markings)

• Auto/Manual Focus f1.6 with 72mm filter size. Advanced optical image stabilization

• Conventional 4:3 aspect ratio and 16:9 letterbox image capture modes

• Conventional video gamma and CineGammaTM operational modes

• 2-ch. XLR audio inputs with phantom power supply (+48V) and manual audio levels

[yoda313]

Hello,

big big diff. between the 100,000$+ cameras that were used in E2, A of the Clones and minidv ...

DID I say they were the same????

Maybe I should have spaced them and not include that in the same paragraph.

Digital handycams will improve but not EQUAL hollywood cameras anytime soon.

There you go BJ_M, hope your happy!

Kevin

[BJ_M]

i am happy.

we rent big assed film cameras !

[DivXExpert]

I mostly just want the experience of using film. And its looks better than any miniDV or DVcam in my opinion. Even the 3CCD cams have a real cold look, that can't even be fixed in post. Why do people still shoot film even though we have 10 Megapixel still cameras? Because it looks different. Does the same not apply to movies? I know everything is turning to video. But I just think film looks better. Between my 35mm SLR and my 4 Megapixel digital, I like my SLR alot better.
Sure Attack of the Clones looked pretty good on a big screen (not as good as 70mm), but George Lucas probably spent more money trying to prove that it was possible to have that high of quality video that competes with film, then it would have been to shoot film in the first place. Most major movies are shot on film, because it looks better. I'm not after professional quality results or anything, its just film sounds fun. Film looks cool. It has an unmatched effect. All these new cameras are trying to do one thing. Look like film.

[DivXExpert]

BTW the Panasonic AG-DVX100A is a beautiful machine.

[DivXExpert]

So wait.
8mm = Bad?
35mm = To expensive. Yes
16mm = Only Resort?

[BJ_M]

16mm is good choice and still very very popular for film - it also converts quite well to HD as it is about the same resolution

[thecoalman]

Between my 35mm SLR and my 4 Megapixel digital, I like my SLR alot better.
.

Check this pic out, It's from a Canon EOS 1D Mark2. It's a 4.3 megapixel shot, the camera goes to 8.2. I had to edit the full image but it's saved at 100% so it it's the same as the one from the camera except the edits.



Full image, 2.2 mb www.nepadigital.com/temp/1.jpg