capture card or dvcamcorder?

[Spunjer]

total newbie here. good friend of mine gave me the Magix movie edit pro 2004 when i mentioned i was planning on converting my vast collection of vhs and 8mm tapes. i've been reading about video editing and as far as i'm concern i need something to convert from analog to digital. i've looked at capture cards (ati wonder tv), standalone (canopus), and dv camcorder (canon zr90), which i don't have at the moment. buying a dv camcorder for the purpose of converting analog to digital seems like an overkill, but it's not like i won't be able to use it for future projects.

my questions are:

a) will dv cams do the same job as the standalone like the canopus or capture card in regards to converting analog to digital;

b) should i just go ahead and buy a separate device for conversion

c) or should i save my money, and buy a dvcamcorder to do everything?

please bear with me if my questions sound ignorant. am trully ignorant when it comes to this...

[rankz]

Try getting a cheap analogue capture card froum ebuyer (£30). then try saving up for a Digi Cam, as it will be better in the long run.

[SatStorm]

- If you have the money dvcamcorder. Overkill or not, still the best method for analogue to digital transfers

- Canopus is an excellent alternative

- A capture card (with tuner or not, for example those bt8xxx ones or older Nvidia, or the ATI cards- a good choice when you are NTSC) is maybe a more flexible solution. The Bt8xxx cards are also very cheap

[djKale]

I have one of those cheap capture cards and a DV camcorder. My advice is to save for the camcorder. There's really no comparison between the two. With the camcorder you get device control, higher resolution, better quality and a new camera!

You will want to get one that can do analog to digital conversion on the fly, which I think they call "pass-through". Otherwise, you will have to record the 8mm tape to a DV tape, then capture. Don't forget that you'll need firewire capabilities on your computer system. Which brings me to my next point...You might want to consider updating your system if you plan on doing video editing.

Kale

[trevlac]

total newbie here. good friend of mine gave me the Magix movie edit pro 2004

I just picked up Magix Video DeLux for $10 at amazon. It's the best $10 I've ever spent on software. Movie edit pro has the same interface, etc. I assume it has some more options since it is newer.

my questions are:

a) will dv cams do the same job as the standalone like the canopus or capture card in regards to converting analog to digital;

b) should i just go ahead and buy a separate device for conversion

Nothing is the same as anything else. In general, cams will not do macrovision protected tapes. I have a $1500 sony cam, a $200 sharp cam (both miniDV), and a laird DV capture device. The device is hands down the easiest to use, so far giving perfect sync ... (I'm still testing). I would shop for a Canopus device on ebay.

c) or should i save my money, and buy a dvcamcorder to do everything?

No. Not if you don't want a camcorder. If you do, and you have hi-8, a digital 8 is an interesting option. Same a miniDV, but a little bigger and on/off much cheaper. Of course quality from cam to cam is different so it depends upon what you want.

However, for a tape collection ... I would get a DV device. Maybe you can get one at a store and take it back after you try it.

[axolotls]

- If you have the money dvcamcorder. Overkill or not, still the best method for analogue to digital transfers

-

Why???

What would a DVCam pass through have that the Canopus doesn't do?

[slebrun]

I picked up a Compro VideoMate Live USB2.0 specifically to convert from VHS/8mm to DVD. It has hardware MPEG2 capturing and does the job brilliantly. You can read a review of it here.

The resulting file is ready to drop into your DVD authoring program.

Scott

[ZAPPER]

I ain't no expert.(standard disclaimer) Any answer that you get here is an opinion. And there is much truth in what "trevlac" said about nothing being the same as anything else. Wait a week before you spend a dime. Read up on the subject. Decide just what it is that you really want to do. (you are going to want to do it all sooner or later) Hunt down the best deals that you can find. Then take the plunge.
Depending on what you are doing with video, the source, the editing, the end storage and the end equipment that it is intended to be watched on. The steps and equipment that get you there can be almost infinite.
I have no trouble with saying that a cam with pass thru is a good all around way to go, but it can have some drawbacks that other ways don't. Macrovision sounds like it might be a problem for you if you are converting your VHS collection. I don't have any experience with a DVD cam but I fear that any footage that you shoot will be MPEG. I may be behind on some new advances but I think that if you want to do anything other than cut and join you should be shooting DV or AVI type files that are better suited to editing.
A killer capture card like ATI AIW will let you get most pre-recorded video from VCRs and stand alone DVD players into your PC and can record live TV either from itself or an outside source. There are some Macrovision hacks for this that could help with your VHS collection conversions, but again I think that the MPEG will be the drawback to editing and you can't take it with you to shoot video.
I don't know any thing about a canopus except that there are to camps on the subject. Those that love them and those that hate them. I have gotten by without one just fine with a DV cam, firewire and an ATI AIW.
In the end if you get bitten by the video bug you will wind up buying everything.
a)no they will not do it all, but most of it. macro being I think the big drawback
b)for straight conversion maybe, but I am not sure about Macrovision(you can read up on it)
c)I don't think that they do it all(see a above)

[lordsmurf]

What PRECISELY do you want to do?
What is your idea for the type of video work you'd like to do ?

This is the most important thing of all to know.

[proxyx99]

If you are into filmaking then buy a DVcam. You end up having a cam and a conversion thing in one (must have a pass-through).
If you want to edit and archive your stuff only, check what your budget is and:
-buy analog to DV like Canopus or Datavideo if you want to edit a lot (I mean a lot!). You need 13 Gig per hr of HDD space plus soft MPEG2 encoder.
-if you want to make it simple (convert and burn) plus get the use of pc as PVR/TV box get the device like Videomate
-if your budget is low then get a decent capture card (ATI) or similar.

In terms of versatility DVcam and Videomate are multiuse devices (more then one function or purpose). Analog to DV converter is just a converter and if you are not converting (capturing) at a specific time it will be gathering dust. Now, sit down and decide what do you want to do.

[djKale]

Just another note, my el cheapo capture card was advertised as capturing 720x480, but the max that I could capture with it was 320x240 since the computer it was installed in was a slow PII 400.

miniDV cams are fun, but don't expect store bought DVD quality. I noticed that with mine, it is hard to get a good picture in low light AND in bright light (a sunny day). It seems a lot more sensitive to light than my 8mm and requires a lot more tweaking. I wish I would have saved up for one of the 3CCD Panasonics...

Kale

[Spunjer]

thx for everyone's response! i'm overwhelmed!!!

first of, and prolly everyone else's excuse when they first started is, i truly want to convert a bunch of old homemade vhs tapes and also 8mm tapes. second, i'm thinking about doing some very basic editing, mainly surfing footage that i made with my 8mm tapes.

after reading everyone's response, i believe i'm more partial now into just going ahead and save up for a dv cam. i reckon it's more versatile and with the options that comes with these gadget, i can't go wrong. the one that i'm looking at right now is a canon brand that has pass thru. although i mentioned the zr90 model, i'm also looking at the elura 65, which has a true 16:9.

i do need to update my system, mainly firewire capabilities and bigger hdd.

[proxyx99]

Nothing against Canon, they producegreat picture in well lit environment but are pain in low light (grainy picture). I know it will stir things up here but I would rather buy Sony miniDV. Check epinions.com and dvspot.com as well as DV forum here and decide carefully. Find out what your budget is and pick with care. Research ebay for used cams as well (may be an option - u can save few bucks). Check your friends for their experience with some miniDV's and if possible test it by making a short film (especially in indoor situations). Sony digital8 is a great option (cheap) but more bulky then miniDV. Pana 3ccd line of miniDV or Sony would be my picks considering the price and picture quality as well as low light (!) performance.

[DVD_Ripper]

- If you have the money dvcamcorder. Overkill or not, still the best method for analogue to digital transfers

- Canopus is an excellent alternative

- A capture card (with tuner or not, for example those bt8xxx ones or older Nvidia, or the ATI cards- a good choice when you are NTSC) is maybe a more flexible solution. The Bt8xxx cards are also very cheap

SatStorm... i wanna follow up on this thread. I use Media Concepts MPEG Capture software with my Sony DV camcorder. Can I plug my analog device (VCR) into my DV (line in jacks) and then proceed to capture the VCR output "thru" my camcorder into PC via Fwire.

The only thing I can think of is that the media concepts product wants to control (pause, play, stop, pause, etc) the DV device... would I need a different software app to make that 'pass thru' capture work? Sounds interesting ...

[lordsmurf]

Do you mean MainConcept 1.4 ?
otherwise ... who's "media concepts" ?

[proxyx99]

DVD_Ripper: please refer to your cam's manual regarding pass-through functionality and ways to use it. With respect to Mainconcept Encoder (?? - was this what you were referring to?) the best way to answer your question is to try it (demo available).

[DVD_Ripper]

Do you mean MainConcept 1.4 ?
otherwise ... who's "media concepts" ?

Whoops, long day yesterday at work... three registration pages and 32,000 emails sent..... I was burnt when I wrote this.

Yes, MainConcept MPEG Capture is what I meant.

[handyguy]

Easiest way by far if you have a lot of videos to do is a dvd recorder, e.g panasonic e55. I did 25 in no time.

[proxyx99]

Huh, I think we forgot about that. No doubt it's the easiest...

[DVD_Ripper]

Easiest way by far if you have a lot of videos to do is a dvd recorder, e.g panasonic e55. I did 25 in no time.

Yea.... thought about a set top recorder... but I could buy only one recorder last year and it was a Fwire TDK recorder for my system... maybe when the prices of the set top recorders hit $100.00 I will get one of those too.

But... for now I use a USB MPEG capture and burn my movies. (most are kiddie movies so qlty is not a huge factor) ... I guess I will need to check with Sony to find out if Video In on my model will then pass video out via FWire port. That would be sweet since I think the quality of the Mainconcepts product is phenomenal

[BSR]

The only thing I can think of is that the media concepts product wants to control (pause, play, stop, pause, etc) the DV device... would I need a different software app to make that 'pass thru' capture work? Sounds interesting ...

Try removing the tape from your camcorder, that's they only way I can get the passthrough to work. you will have to try it with Mainconcept.

[DVD_Ripper]

The only thing I can think of is that the media concepts product wants to control (pause, play, stop, pause, etc) the DV device... would I need a different software app to make that 'pass thru' capture work? Sounds interesting ...

Try removing the tape from your camcorder, that's they only way I can get the passthrough to work. you will have to try it with Mainconcept.

Great tip, Thanks... what program do you use to capture the Analog Thru Stream? MainConcept or another?

[BSR]

I have successfully tested this with VideoStudio 6, WinDV, DVIO, Premiere 6.5 and ScenalyzerLive.

I tried Vegas but could not get it to do Passthrough, kept blanking out the video screen on the computer. Maybe because it was a trial program?

[Amish Electrician]

Ok my 2cents worth
I have dv cam with firewire (canon optura 200) works great as for low light well all cams have problems there.
Also i have ati all in wonder card just a 7500 on a p4 2.5gig

Ok now my point TIME
If you use your dv cam to captuer you will need to cap in AVI format now to get it on dvd you must convert to MEPG2 but it will look the best if you use a good incoder.

On my ATI i can CAP in mpg2 & its ready to burn to dvd but the quality is not the best.Last thing i was able to cap mp2 with a p3 933 & ati 7500 AIW with no slowing or fram loss just use 2 hard drives :>

[DVD_Ripper]

Ok now my point TIME
If you use your dv cam to captuer you will need to cap in AVI format now to get it on dvd you must convert to MEPG2 but it will look the best if you use a good incoder.

Right ....Time!!! We all want and need more....

that is why I will no doubt want to test the pass-thru with MediaConcepts MPEG Capture. (on the fly MPEG conversion with the quality / speed of Fwire) ... I dont want to go back to AVI when I have an external MPEG capture product. I wanted to passthru via DV to take advantage of MediaConcepts excellent capture / conversion tools. It is handsdown a better alternative to direct MPEG hware encoders (IMO)

[proxyx99]

...provided your hardware can keep up (>2 GHz processor).

[lordsmurf]

My opinions:

1. Use a camera as a camera. Not a capture device.
2. Avoid any DV capture device in NTSC (any 4:1:1 capture)
3. Get a good capture card for editing (ATI, Matrox, Hauppauge, Canopus). This is for the person serious about video.
4. If you're in a rush, get a good DVD recorder. The ones using LSI chips do an amazing job.

Trying to cut corners with money, and by trying to use one device for several options, just leads to troubles and heartaches. Forget that.

[proxyx99]

I think your judgment although correct from a video buff point of view is a bit too harsh by not taking into account the reality that average Joe faces daily, And that is: to get most bang for your buck while not sacrificing the quality of the end result. I agree with point 4. The rest is usually determined by the budget and true needs. That comes with time and aquired experience. I see nothing wrong with using pass-through like lots and lots of other users. This would be my preferred option. But the ultimate decision rests with the inquirer. With so much input from many members I think he is well equipped to take on this issue now.

[BSR]

Another advantage I've found with my Sony DV cam is that it stabalizes jittery pictures coming from the VHS tapes. I believe many talked about that DVcams with passthrough have a built in TBC and I've read others dismiss it as not as good as a stand alone TBC or not a TBC at all. Fact is it improves my videos, so I don't see a need for stand alone TBC.

I don't do this professionally, just for my home videos, so I'm the only person I have to please, but I am kind of fussy about the quality.

I have both a DV cam and a video capture card, I use the DVcams passthrough all the time now to convert my videos. Don't even fuss with the capture card with the seperate audio in, dropped frames, sync issues and crap like that. But this is only my opinion.

[DVD_Ripper]

I have both a DV cam and a video capture card, I use the DVcams passthrough all the time now to convert my videos. Don't even fuss with the capture card with the seperate audio in, dropped frames, sync issues and crap like that. But this is only my opinion.

This will be wonderful if it works.

What software do you use to capture the video pass thru?
Do you have to remove the tape?
Do you have to set anything special up on the camera to use the passthru to the Fwire port?

Anything else you learned during your experiments that may help?

Thanks in advance.