Assistance with AIW 9800 Pro

[Smack2k]

Hey,

This is my first post on this forum, so thanks for the help ahead of time.

OK, I have a AIW 9800 Pro Card in my PC. When I play VCR tapes through the composite adapter (purple adapter) using either RCA or S-Video, I get a white bar across the top 5-10% of the picture and the rest of the pictures brightness fades in and out. No matter what tape I use, commercial or home recorded, the same thing happens.

I really want to start moving my VHS tapes to DVD, any ideas on how to correct this issue?

When I run TV through the VCR using the same composite cables (RCA or S-Video) the picture is fine. The issue only occurs when playing a VHS tape. I have also tried three different VCR's with the same issue.

[lordsmurf]

Macrovision or damaged video. Need a TBC.

[Smack2k]

The VHS tapes play fine using the same VCR (s) through TV using the same RCA Cables or S-Video. The issue only arrises when I play the VHS tape through the AIW 9800 Pro card.

If the video is damaged, why does is play so well on a normal TV?

Thanks for the help so far...

As for the TBC, any ideas on a brand and price?

[DVDDave]

your tapes have macrovision which is copyright protection on them. you may want to visit lordsmurs site http://digitalfaq.com/ he has many guides and suggestions on how to convert vhs to dvd, especially with ATI AIW products.

[Smack2k]

Maybe I was explaining this the wrong way....

These very same tapes that are plalying strange on my AIW 9800 also have been copied to other VHS's using my dual-deck VCR with no problem, and the copies play fine, so I dont think Macrovision is the answer.

In fact, some of the tapes I am trying to convert to DVD are tapes that are copies of other tapes. It almost seems like the it could possibly be a resolution issue, but I am not sure.

[lordsmurf]

No... it's copy protection. Trust us. That's what you're seeing.

[Smack2k]

Excuse my confusion....

But if it is copy protected, why does every tape I have do the same thing? I have copied a tape and tryed to play the copy through the AIW and get the same type of issues. Yet the copy will play fine in the same VCR through the TV.

Maybe I am confused about copy protection, could you explain why a tape I can copy from VHS to VHS will not play correctly through the AIW?

[lordsmurf]

Which dual deck are you comparing to?

[DVDDave]

it doesn't matter what, which, or where your tapes were made. your ATI AIW capture card is picking up MACROVISION. read some guides.

[Smack2k]

So you are telling me that tapes I can copy with two VCR's hooked up or through a dual deck VCR with no problem all of a sudden have protection when viewed throught the AIW card? That doesnt seem right.

Do they also put copy protection on blank tapes bought at a store, then used to record a TV show? No, yet these tapes also do not play well (picture quality wise) ONLY when viewed through the AIW card.

Lordsmurf, to answer your question.

It's a dual deck Go Video VCR that does not copy tapes that have protection on them, honest! I have several tapes I cannot copy on the deck due to copy protection (a message pops up on the screen stating so), but I havent tried any of those when hooked up to the AIW.

I honestly have tapes that were made as copies for me through trades that dont play well only through the ATI card. I can copy these same tapes using my VCR's and the quality and picture is fine.

If it's copy protection, that is fine, but I still dont understand why I can copy the same tape using two VCR's. Very confusing!


Thanks for the helop so far.

[lordsmurf]

That's what I thought. GoVideo can ignore several levels of MV on the dualdecks.

Were these tapes all made on the GoVideo? That'd be another problem. Those recorders were the worst of the worst. They often write unstable video onto tapes. I doubt tapes made on them would play in lots of machines, nor capture on many captures cards.

You're still very likely seeing MV or video errors. That is what the AGC error is (light/dark). Capture cards and DVD recorders are super-sensitive to MV or errors that look like MV.

That white bar error may be a bad driver install.

A TBC may need to be your next purchase.

[presto]

I can understand your confusion. I think you are seeing several things.

1) Macrovision - this would show up only on tapes that are macrovision protected like Hollywood videos, not on home movies. The brightening and dimming is one of several macrovision artifacts you might see

Go Video decks make such a good copy that they simply produce a new good copy with macrovision still in place. The copy will play fine. This shows nothing about wether or not the tape has macrovision.

2) ATI AIW limitations - ATI cards can't handle older VHS tapes even if your TV or another card can. I'm confused here because you say the results are the same on all vhs tapes. The interference you get from this ATI limitation looks like the upper edge of the picture is jumping around not the brightening a dimming. Perhaps if you look again you will find that you get different results from Hollywood tapes than you do from home made videos? The common factor is that you can't copy either with your current set up.

My solution was to purchase a Dazzle 150 usb device to capture those videos. Others say a TBC will solve the problem.

3) Driver prob - As suggested earlier that white line doesn't sound like either of the above but I do recall other discussions of that problem and the solution was to reinstall the drivers or to try an earler driver (I think).

[thecoalman]

For an example go here http://www.nepadigital.com/mv/ , same problem. IMO as others have stated above it's the MV. Doesn't matter , commercial tapes, copies, home movies you will get the same results from the ATI, there's no way around it without a TBC using the ATI. The only success I had with the exact same card your using is from a tape that was made a few hours before.

BTW presto the brightening and the dimming is exactly what my home movies did... Check out my mpg examples on my page if you don't believe me. I think what he is seeing is the exact same effect on all tapes since I went through the same scenario myself.

I'd also like to mention that one of the visitors to my little page was from atitech.com No response from them, gee I wonder why?

[Smack2k]

Coal man, that is it exactly!

What type of TBC should I get? Cost?

Thanks!

[presto]

BTW presto the brightening and the dimming is exactly what my home movies did... Check out my mpg examples on my page if you don't believe me. I think what he is seeing is the exact same effect on all tapes since I went through the same scenario myself.

I don't question your statements at all. These things are hard to describe and your pics and video samples are definitely the way to go. I would be very happy if I had a problem and found someone else who had pics, descriptions and video of the same thing.

I think the Smak2k was justifiably confused to have people saying it was macrovision without some explanation of how home made tapes might contain macrovision. (they don't but their signal is off in some way that screws up the ATI card capture).

Smak2k was absolutely correct in thinking that his tapes couldn't have macrovision if his GoVideo Deck would copy them. I knew that more recent GoVideo Decks will detect and refuse to copy MV protected tapes but I missed the line in his post that indicated he had that type.

[MOVIEGEEK]

Smack2k,
Try another Catalyst driver package,I recommend 3.10(11/13/2003)
It might not correct the problem but at least you can rule out the drivers.
www.ati.com/support/driver.html

[thecoalman]

TBC's are expensive, start at about $350. Don't have one personally but everyone that does seems to love them. I have even held off capturing my home videos until I purchase one. I was in contact with another guy with the AIW 9800 and he said that not only did it fix the problem his captures looked a whole ot better. Look here for datavideo 1000, i think. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/ or you might want to try a cheaper video stabilizer from your local Best Buy, if it doesn't work you can always take it back. There's a few, i used a sima godvd to alleviate nearly the same thing on a Geforce VIVO card.

You can try the different drivers, cables, vcr's if you want but I've been down that road and nothing works.

[dvdflea]

Hey Smack2,

From your description, it does NOT sound like Macrovision. Why would your home videos, which should have no copy protection, be acting up too?

Not to sound daft, but did you check your TRACKING? It could be as simple as that. When you play back on your VCR, usually on your remote control there's some way to adjust tracking. If your tracking is off a little it could put a white bar on top of your screen and screw up the rest of your picture.

Hope that helps. Good luck.
dvdflea

[overloaded_ide]

I think I know those white bars, and they drove me buggy for awhile too!

Ok first I don't think I saw anyone mention that all macrovision protection really is is a bad signal inserted into the video signal. It distorts the signal on certian lines that a TV does not use but the VCR (ect..) does use durring recording. THAT is why a tape will play on TV but the recording will be garbage when copying protected tapes. Not totally correct I am sure, but basicly it is in general for simplicity.

Since all Macrovision is is a distorted signal caused by added garbage that is not needed, a bad tape with a distorted signal can be wrongfully detected as macrovision! Maybe old tapes, poorly recorded tapes, cheap low quality tapes, camcorder tapes ect.. do not have true macrovision protection on them, but the low quality distorted signal "APPEARS" to the recording device as macrovision and therefore you are haveing problems with macrovision protection though it does not truely exist on the source.
The effect may be worse on some equipment than others depending how touchy the recording equipment is to the bad signal. For instance a really old VCR may not even detect real macrovision but sensitive new ones might even detect false macrovision.

I had macrovison problems of various types backing up some of the daughters tapes to DVD, in particular Spice world by Spice girls. I bought a device to kill the protection and I was able to record it, but I had those white stripe bars like I think you have, even with the little box. I think it was called big red and cost me $30.
I bought a Video Facet video clarifier and never had problems again with that. Though right after I got the 3rd dvd made (a decent one finally), I found the tape cheap and grabed another copy. Then of all things I found the Spiceworld DVD so I bought her that!
Who says coping costs the movie companies money? $130 I spent on stuff to remove the protections so I could make a decent backup of a tape that was going bad ONLY because I could not buy another copy!! Then I found the real tape and bought that, then I found a DVD and bought that too!!! Gee, that was $130 I could have spent on movies, so what really cost them the lost sales??

Anyway back on track, I like my Video Facet and it cost $100 when I bought it, I think that included shipping too. Don't know the link where I got it, found it here somewhere so a search might work, or maybe someone will have the info to post again.

I think I might still have an ocasional bright dark on some really bad tapes, but not often and I think it's actually in the tape or the source the tape was made from.

[thecoalman]

Hey Smack2,

From your description, it does NOT sound like Macrovision. Why would your home videos, which should have no copy protection, be acting up too?

dvdflea,

It is, least in my opinion. I wish it was as simple as a tracking issue BUT if you you check my page out you can see that it isn't. http://www.nepadigital.com/mv There a few examples here, home video to commecial tape comparison and two mpg's one captured with the ATI and another with a Leadtek 2000xp. Additionally if you do some searching on this site you will find that there are many posts regarding this same issue.

[lordsmurf]

AVToolbox AVT-8710 about $200
DataVideo TBC-1000 about $300

overloaded_ide gave a good explanation

[thecoalman]

overloaded_ide gave a good explanation

Agreed, most of that info is available on my page. Check out this screen capture from my stats, if I'm wrong I would assume ATI would not be too happy with the spead of false info.

[Marvingj]

Macrovision is a Video Terrorist!

[lordsmurf]

ATI checks out new sites a lot. They were all over my stats a year ago. In fact, they've referred people to my site many times in the past. At least this is what site visitors told me.

[thecoalman]

Macrovision is a Video Terrorist!

LOL I'm half tempted to draw up a terrorist looking guy holding a sign saying "Down with Home Video capture, long live MV"