DVD recorder vs. PC -- what can and cannot be done

[humbled]

I assembled a high end PC with capture card 2 years ago to, among other things, digitize many years of home movies, VHS and Hi-8. Haven't done a single one yet because of the learning curve of capture, encoding, the many settings that affect quality, etc. I never have enough time in one stretch to absorb all that I need.

Have been eyeing standalone units that digitize analogue inputs and pass to PC via USB, such as made by Dazzle.

However, maybe a DVD Recorder would better fill the bill. Have read several threads here but still am not 100% sure about how completely this approach would meet my needs.

Here are my questions, and thanks for all help:

1. Would I lose any significant opportunity to optimize capture quality, given my inputs (VHS and Hi-8) by going the DVD recorder route, vs. PC based capture?

2. Am I correct in understanding that if I use a DVD Recorder to capture the home videos, I can readily (quick and easy) load it into PC for editing (mostly cuts, some rearranging, no titling or transitions) and re-burn?

3. Can I use the DVD Recorder to burn a final DVD? So that I don't have to buy a PC based burner?

4. For my particular use, which DVD Recorder format would make the most sense? Which would provide the lowest cost or best value?

5. Given what is on the market today, do you have specific recommendations for brand and model? Cost is a concern but not at sacrifice of functionality that is basic to my intended use.

[lordsmurf]

1- High quality can be done by both. It all depends on resolution and bitrates and quality of the equipment and source.

2- Somewhat easy. Both methods can be edited. About same difficulty level.

3- Most of them yes.

4- I'd have to give in on Panasonic models. I keep eyeing Cyberhome and Apex, but Panasonic looks best ... still waiting for a JVC model to come to the USA.

5- See #4

Just realize you get more control with computer-based video editing. The recorder is just easier (though not necessarily much faster than a good MPEG capture and edit/author/burn). On a recorder, you still have to manually edit and all with the remote, which can still take some time, and those menus never look good (they look really homemade).

The DVD recorder is a VCR replacement. It's not a computer editing replacement.

[donpedro]

1. I would say... NO

2. Cutting MPEG2 is not that easy.

3. From PC ? Not realy. Maybe through FireWire or Video OUT, but that involves re-encoding. But I saw some DVD Burner that can be used as DVD Writer in CompUSA. DOn't remember brand.

[thundercrush]

I can not compare but I can say what I know and use.

I do PC. I record everything and anything off the TV or VCR. When I do Pay Perview I record it or my favorite Football team on Sunday.
It is real easy if you have Satelite TV or a VCR that has composite or better yet S-Video outputs. You can hook the reciever to the Video Card and Sound Card Directly and record with software programs.

What I bought was a TVIN/TVOUT GForce 4 video Card from ASUS $160 to capture. 2.6mhz Celeron, 512 RAM, 140Gig HD. Sound Blaster Live Card with a DVD/CD Burner $110.

Programs,
I've used many but here is what I find to be the best and easiest for my needs.

If I want to record MPEG-2 for DVD. I use WinDVD Recorder, you can set the schedule and everything with that program. I record in Half DVD for Football games and other things and DVD format for Pay perview Movies.

To edit I use Womble MPEG-VCR, the only program I found to edit MPEG-2 easy.

TMPEG DVD Author to make the chapters, Menus and Vob files.
And Nero to burn.

Add all that up and it can get expensive but I really don't think at this time a DVD recorder can match the quality and versitility.

It is what your willing to spend money wise but really its not that hard to do to record to the PC.

If you use the TV out on the computer you can S-Video out of the ASUS card straight to an INPUT channel on your tv if that exist. I have a Big Screen with several inputs so I can do all my editing right there on the Big Screen.

This seems complicated but really it is not Just think of your computer as a VCR/DVD player when you hook it up and it will be better than anything on the market today.

[donpedro]

To edit I use Womble MPEG-VCR, the only program I found to edit MPEG-2 easy.

This is true. I was playing with different tools and this one is best.

Add all that up and it can get expensive but I really don't think at this time a DVD recorder can match the quality and versitility.

Did you try Panasonic or Sony DVD Recorder to compare ? If not, you should

[overloaded_ide]

In general I can compare some.

I vote PC all the way.

I have the Panny E50, had it abot 2 months and to me it has been nothing but a $500 DVD player
I made one disk with it so far! It might be nice for some things, but to me it just has no options I want. I don't like the menu, and basiccally for my uses I would consider it nothing more than a High priced VCR making disks instead of tapes. Luckily I bought mine at wallmart with a 90 day return policy, and it will be getting returned for refund soon as I have time. Like a 100 mile round trip, or I would have returned it already.
Yes I live in the boonies, very rural area.

Anyway, the one disk I did make had 2 movies on it. Useing the default menus of the E50 the person I made the disk for (home movie) did not even know I had put the second moive on the disk. Latter when she brought me more camcorder VHS tapes she brought the same one. When I said I already did that one for her she was confused, so I played the disk and she said she never even saw it was there before!

Now for just capturing to a disk then editing on the pc it might do a good job, but the E50 I have says it only does -R and Ram disks. Well I don't want to trash a -R every record just to edite later on the pc and burn to a new disk, and I Don't have a RAM drive! Would like it better if it did -RW.

In any case, just using it as a capture device and edit and reburn on the pc I don't personnally feel it worthwhile at this time (for me anyway).
$500 for a capture device is pretty steep considering I do great results with an ATI AIW capture card that only cost me $129! I can build an entire PC dedicated to just capturing for not much over $500! Maybe less!

As far as burner ect.. If I capture with the E50 then edit and burn on my PC I would have to have a pc burner anyway, so I am not actualy figuring cost of everything, just the capturing as that's basically all the E50 would be used for. I still need the software and other stuff for the PC to edit, make chapters, menus, cuts, etc.. then reburn.

So to me, The E50 is a waste of disks at this time.

[handyguy]

I use a source dvd player that has no Macro so my panasonic dvd recorder can copy from it easily. Editting is easy & fun & you can put the dvdram disk in your computer & edit some more if you want.

Panasonics have special filters you cant get on a PC that make the dvdr look the same as the original.

[overloaded_ide]

If your going to copy a DVD what do you need a stand alone for?
Just ripp it and burn it, you don't need any filters to make it look the same, it is the same!

If the DVD is larger than a DVD -R rip movie only if you want. If movie itself is larger than a DVD -r disk, then you have to compress or what ever, but then you have to on a Standalone also, though it might do it automatically for you if you set record time to fit the disk.

My E50 I did not see anything in the manual that was worthwhile for editing anything! Maybe I should look harder?

As for reading the ram disk, don't you need a drive that reads Ram disks?
I meen not all DVD Burners or DVD -rom drives or DVD players read Ram disks right?

Only use I can see for a Standalone really is recording NON-DVD stuff to a DVD. If it's a DVD already you are wasting your time making it a DVD just to edit again latter. Also aren't you basically playing the DVD as an anolog source to record it and convert it back to a DVD again? Composite or S-VHS connections??
Or can you use optical or firewire for this?

[eyequit]

I have never posted in this forum and no way can I compete with the knowledge of the people here. I have done a lot of reading in here, which was and is very helpful, so thank you to everybody who post here.

I have had a Dazzle for a year now, and find it way to time consuming to try to adjust all the contrast and brightness controls necessary for up to 20-year-old tapes. Trying to save all the short clips from indoor, outdoors, etc. was just too time consuming. You know how bad us amature home video moviemakers are. Also burning VCD's, SVCD's was very time consuming with all the converting this format to that format and was never happy with the final result. Went out and bought a HP DVD Burner and once again same slow crap, just got more crap on a single DVD. Finally gave up until something better came along. Wish I knew about this forum back then.

Started reading this forum about mid October and decided that I would try a standalone recorder. Being cheap, I figured the best recorder for the price was probably the Cyberhome CH-DVR 1500, which I purchased this Sunday at Wal-Mart for $294, knowing if I was not happy I would take it back. I have already copied the 2 worst tapes I have. I am very happy with the results so far, knowing that at least I have them digitized, preventing further deterioration of quality. I can always edit the DVD copies later or attempt it again with the tapes. The DVD backups have at least put my mind to peace.

I rarely use a VCR at home, so I figured if I can get this done before Christmas, I will box it up and get it to my 82yo mother who uses a VCR daily (feel like she could use it with no problem). The quality of recorded programs is excellent and the ease of use darn nice, no rewinding or trying to find a blank space to record, what a benefit. If I need to use it again she might let me borrow it or maybe she might force me to go visit her more often. We do live in the same town. LOL

I would definitely recommend you at least trying any stand-alone recorder that has a satisfaction guaranteed policy. I am not trying to sell any product, just know that the cyberhome worked well enough for me.

I will continue to read this forum till I discover the post identifies the free unit that does everything all by its self.

ONCE AGAIN THANKS!!!! TO EVERYONE WHO POST HERE

the eye

[mike1061]

Would you say that "Womble MPEG-VCR" work better than Pinnacle studio 8? What I want to do is put my VHS tapes onto disk. I also want to edit out comercials, and sometimes put parts of more than show on a disk.
Thanks Mike.

[donpedro]

Would you say that "Womble MPEG-VCR" work better than Pinnacle studio 8? What I want to do is put my VHS tapes onto disk. I also want to edit out comercials, and sometimes put parts of more than show on a disk.
Thanks Mike.

For cutting out somercials with no re-encoding ? Yes.

[mike1061]

Don Pedro
How does the "Womble MPEG-VCR" differ from the Pinnacle program?
Would you say that using a computer is better than a stand alone unit for the transfer of old TV shows to disk?
Thanks Mike.

[ammanbedroom]

I'm in the same situation.

If you have a large number of tapes to be converted to DVD-R; I believe the best solution is to have both. While you are recording from tape to DVD-Recorder you can use your PC to build the final DVD-R (as the last step needs much more time for cutting, editing and building menus).

Your PC must be equipped with a DVD-ReWritable-Media Reader that can read DVD-ReWritable-Media applicable by your DVD-Recorder. For example; If you will use Panasonic DMR-E50; your PC must have a DVD-RAM reader. I personally use this solution and my PC is equipped with IOMega Super Drive that can read & write to all available DVD_+Media in the market.

If you don’t have a large number of tapes; then try using your PC; then; if you found you need more power get a DVD-Recorder.

Regarding DVD-Recorder selection: Before purchasing; I recommend reading more about the available DVD-Re-Writable-Media available in the market today and that would be available in the future. I know that DVD-RAM is vanishing as DVD-RW and DVD+RW is making a replacement; but the decision is yours. I personally relying on DVD-RAM media and will keep using this media for the future (by obtaining as much as I can of DVD-RAM Disks as each disk can be optimized 100,000 time). Sony provide a DVD-Recorder that can read & write to DVD-RW & DVD+RW.

Take care.

[dcsos]

Womble EDIT is a very basic program for cutting and joining segments

The only options it has concern whether you want a DISSOLVE or CUT
at the juntion point...

The other options concern whether you want to preserve the FORMAT you started with or change to a SMALLER MPG. FILE

You ALSO HAVE a TOOLS PULLDOWN that allows you to DEMUX any mpg into its constuient AUDI & VIDEO...or do the reverse..combining the tracks.

It is not a NON LINEAR EDITING SUITE like PINNACLE's STUDIO 8
(a horridly bloated nle if you ask me!)

[Bob W]

I would never go back to using a computer to capture from VHS tapes or Laser disc. The recorder does a much better job of it and in real time. All the money I spent on software/hardware to do capturing I could have bought two DVD recorders and the time spent trying to get a good conversion is just not worth it IMO.

[mike1061]

ammanbedroom
I have 1000's of VHS tapes to transfer. So one question is if I record them on a stand alone, them rip the disk on the computer, then edit & assemble & burn to another disk, have I saved anything? I maen like time, or easier on the computer, cause I can use RW disks. With the DVD-ROM stand alone unit you have can you put more than one show on a disk? Like record one in the morning, and one when you get home. Then edit them?
Thanks Mike.

[Bob W]

ammanbedroom
I have 1000's of VHS tapes to transfer. So one question is if I record them on a stand alone, them rip the disk on the computer, then edit & assemble & burn to another disk, have I saved anything? I maen like time, or easier on the computer, cause I can use RW disks. With the DVD-ROM stand alone unit you have can you put more than one show on a disk? Like record one in the morning, and one when you get home. Then edit them?
Thanks Mike.

What is there to edit on VHS movie tapes? I just record the VHS movie and the disc is ready to play on any DVD player. If you have a bunch of home made VHS tapes of family and such then just record it to DVD-RAM and copy that to a computer to do any editing.

What do you save over doing a capture? Well for one thing a ton of time. In a capture you generally capture as an avi file which then needs to be converted to DVD compatible mpeg files and this takes many hours to do. Also there are things can and do go wrong with capturing, like audio sync problems or quality loss in the original capture or mpeg conversion. I did many captures and most came out pretty good but none as good as I can do every time with my Panasonic E50 recorder.

[mike1061]

Bob W.
I know what you mean, so far I'm over $5000.00 and not a single disk that will play completly through. That said I still want to be able to edit out the commercials and put more than one show on a disk. Can I do that on a stand alone?

DCSOS
Do inderstand that with the Womble program, I could seperate the audio and the video? If thats the case would the audio be a WAV file that I could burn to a CD? Some shows like awards shows have music, I could than listen to in the car.
Thanks Mike.

[mike1061]

I do know how long it takes to render a 1 hour video file. I did it in the middle of the night on nights unlike tonight when I was sleeping.
If I record to DVD-RAM with the stand alone, rip with the computer and edit. Then how long does it take after that before the disk is finished? And how long would it take to rip?
Thanks Mike.

[Bob W]

I'm not sure what you want to edit. If it's simple cropping or adding a simple menu/chapters I use a program called NeoDVD Plus and it only takes a few minutes to do the editing or to add a menu and chapter marks then about 30 minutes to re-encode the files and another 15 minutes to burn to DVDR using 4X media. One advantage of the DVD-RAM (or DVD+/-RW files of some recorders) files is they are already DVD compliant mpeg files.

It takes me about 15 minutes to rip a full DVD to my drive with my LiteON LTD-163 DVD drive.

[Bob W]

"Bob W.
I know what you mean, so far I'm over $5000.00 and not a single disk that will play completly through. That said I still want to be able to edit out the commercials and put more than one show on a disk. Can I do that on a stand alone?"

To do this get a DVD recorder with a hard drive then you record to the drive and edit out the commercials from the drive then do the burn. This without a doubt is going to produce the best quality in the shortest amount of time. Yes you can then put as many shows as you want on to a single disc (that is up to six hours of shows).

[lordsmurf]

I'm not understanding why people spent so much money for computer capture solutions:

Hardware:
Respectable motherboard/CPU = $150
Soundcard = $30
ATI AIW card = $130 (includes free capture software)
DVD+/-R drive = $125
Case/fans = $50
450W power supply = $50
HD 200GB = $150
RAM 256 = $50

Video Software:
TMPGEnc Plus & TMPGEnc DVD Author bundle = $100
Womble MPEG VCR $100
Nero/RNM = $0 (normally comes with DVD-R drive)
PowerDVD/WinDVD = $0 (normally comes with DVD-R drive)

Splurge items (not needed, but nice to have):
DVDit! PE = $600 -or- DVD Workshop AC3 = $300
Adobe Premiere 6.5 with MC encoder = $600
SoundForge 6 = $400
DataVideo TBC-1000 = $300
JVC HRSxxx S-VHS VCR = $400

And these are prices IF you buy them new in the store or online. Does not even consider sales, deals, coupons and used eBay purchases. This also assumes you buy all software.

A setup like this should do everything you want.
So why do people spend $5000 and more? I don't get it.
Add all that up. With all the splurge items, it's only about $3000.

If you just keep what is needed (no splurging) you've got a $900 bill, and again, that's not taking sales or deals (etc) into account. That's retail in the store. And the advantage over the DVD recorder is that you've got a full computer system and more control over how YOU want the final video product to look. Prices are close to the same.

Following sales, deals and eBay for a few weeks, I can build a bare-system as described above for about $500. It's not rocket science. It's just patience and knowing how to spend a dollar.

Again, I just don't see where $5000 (or whatever amount) can sink into a hole and still not give results. The system I just suggested should provide plenty of perfect results.

[dcsos]

Lissen to LORDSMURF (above)
and don't forget $99.00 fer WOMBLE EDIT!


Mike...
Womble Edit is fine for making those AUDIO CD's from DVD's
as you asked..
However, most HOLLYWOOD discs use AC3 audio so there are many ways to deal with this...TWO ways follow...

1. Like you said..DEMUX the file ..using Womble and take the resultant .ac3 element and convert it to 44KHZ WAV for CD burning
(beSweet does this best)
2. Use WOMBLE instead to convert the whole VOB to a VCD quality .MPG -1 file..
Then DEMUX this VCD version of the file using theWOMBLE demux tool and VOILA its a 44KHZ WAV file!
(discard the 352x240 converted video part)

[energy80s]

A lot depends on whether you want to spend years on getting up to speed with various video editing / capturing programmes or just want a "one touch solution" for basic DVD recording. My advice would be to use a standalone unless you want to edit (disolve/wipe/split track) video footage. For any other topping and tailing go the hardware route. And if you do go down the PC route and want decent captures avoid anything with the letters ATI on it! Very poor / low resolution pictures at best. A DV Cam or ADVC 50 to firewire transfer would blow it out of the water! (Take it from one who knows and spent 3 years trying to get an ATI card to produce something halfway decent).

[Thorn]

...the time spent trying to get a good conversion is just not worth it IMO.

If I didn't enjoy this stuff so much, it wouldn't have been worth it to learn all that I have. Granted, I started before 99% of this do-it-for-you software and hardware came out.

If you have 1000 tapes to do, your first concern should be how long it takes to do each one. If you are deadset on doing each one carefully on the computer, do you really have the time? Or are you willing to sacrifice the fancy menus to get them done much faster?

I make some really nice/semiprofessional (IMO) menus and put a lot of effort into the quality of encode. People generally don't notice for more than the 5 seconds they spend on the menu, and unless they have an HDTV they can't see the quality difference that you can see on the monitor. So ask yourself if the encoding is a hobby that (after a bit of time tinkering) will yeild a superior DVD, or is it a chore that you'd rather do without. Most people these days will go with the standalone DVD recorder.

[donpedro]

Don Pedro
How does the "Womble MPEG-VCR" differ from the Pinnacle program?
Would you say that using a computer is better than a stand alone unit for the transfer of old TV shows to disk?
Thanks Mike.

I will repeat something that was said before.

Womble is good for simle cuts and joining MPEG2. No re-encoding. It does not have transitions (fancy), DVD authoring, sound mixing and all kind of stuf that PS8 can do.

PS8 is not good for working with mpeg2 files. Any edit will mean re-encoding. It is great for capturing via FireWire in DV AVI and editing (all kinds). I use it when I wan't to make nice Home DVD from MiniDV camcorder.

Standalone DVD Recorder is great for fast backup of any source that does not require a lot of editing. What I did is that I made copy of all my MiniDV tapes as it is. Just in case that tapes go bad in time. Again, if I need to play with editing, I will use PS8 and FireWire.

If you want to edit on recorder, get one with HD.

[lewie49]

Standalone DVD Recorder is great for fast backup of any source that does not require a lot of editing. What I did is that I made copy of all my MiniDV tapes as it is. Just in case that tapes go bad in time. Again, if I need to play with editing, I will use PS8 and FireWire.

If you want to edit on recorder, get one with HD.

I've followed this thread with great interest. My kid did HS band for 4 years and I taped (MiniDV) almost every performance that the band did. For each Fall, Winter and Spring competition season, I edited raw footage on my PC (Canopus EZDV), inserting fades and other transitions, titles, etc. In most cases these "highlight" shows were then mastered back to 2 DV tapes each. I retained the DV masters and then recorded them onto SVHS tapes for normal viewing and as backup masters. The SVHS tapes look great on my Sony TV with its S-video input. The problem is that it's the only set we have with S-video, so on any other set its just normal VHS, which, of course, drops over 160 lines of resolution and shows it. I'd like to now copy the DV masters onto DVDs. A standalone seems to be my best option. I absoultely need to be able to insert my own chapter marks into each finished DVD. It seems to me that a recorder with a HD is my best option since most allow that and it would also let me burn multiple copies that could be finalized and distributed. I'm considering the Panasonic 100H or the new Pioneer 510H. I like the idea that the Pioneer can copy a DVD-R back to the HD if I need more copies. I know that the Pany won't do this. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[mike1061]

Thanks
To everybody. I now belive I should be looking at a stand alone with a hard drive. I really just wanted simple edits. When I was doing it with PS8, I just found the very frame where the show started, used that to do a 2 second fade in, and the reverse at the end. When I was done I had the shows with no comercials. I even was able to put a black screen with the title, and date on before each show. I am perfactly happy with that. When someone comes over you should be able to put in a disk a watch the second show on the disk if you want.
I am worried about how much time this would take, this is why I am listening to what you say about the stand alones. 1000 to 2000 tapes would take the rest of my life.
The reason I spent so much money on the computer was, first I piad $2,500.00 for it with CD/DVD burning and all software for just that. The computer was a Dell, and one by one I had to replace all the hardware, and software that I paid for (maybe some buy mistake). There was something wrong with it all, and I had to pay to have it done. There are still a couple of things wrong, so this is why I want to get another computer, and or a stand alone. I really have several 100 hours in, and everybody from people I didn't even know to Dell themselves try to fix it.
So please do not try to help me fix what I have, I can't bare to spend another miniute on this. Help me find either a new system or a stand alone.
Thanks Mike

[thoots]

Folks,

OK, might as well dive into this one.

I'm another who "tried it on a computer, and will never, EVER waste my time on that again." I spent two years "getting up to speed" with it -- I was an early adopter of the DVD+RW format. "Capturing" and "Editing" isn't tough at all, but converting file formats takes several multiples of your video clip's time, and I never, ever could get a DVD assembly program to produce what I wanted. I had several different "clips" that I just wanted the DVD to play through, as if they were just "chapters." Oh, God no -- absolutely impossible. No, those different "clips" are different "programs," so the DVD will go back to the top menu at the end of each clip. And, you can't "go back" to an earlier clip with the DVD's remote control. Just as an example. So, what now?? Gosh, let's spend hours and hours and hours making one big "clip" out of the little clips, which of course means re-encoding everything into one big file, losing picture quality, and taking roughly 8 hours per each hour of video. Then, I could tediously go through that huge file trying to add chapter marks, and that's when the program usually locked up and crashed....

And so on. Again, if you haven't done this on a computer, please realize that examples such as thundercrush's "WinDVD->Womble->TMPEG->Nero" scenario might well represent something like 10 hours of work and computer processing for each hour of video.

I would also like to note that it looks like overloaded_ide didn't work very hard at figuring out how the Panasonic DMR-E50 makes "different menu items" -- he could have easily put two programs on a DVD-R, each with its own menu item, with each item given the name of the program. Gosh, golly, yes, these standalone things can do that -- you don't need to spend thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours to accomplish stuff like that.

And, to answer something for lewie49 regarding "dubbing from DVD-R to the hard drive," comparing the Panasonic machines to the Pioneers, I'd just recommend on the Panasonic side that he could just make one of the copies it sounds like he wants to make onto a DVD-RAM disc, and save one of those for each program he might like to "duplicate" down the road. Not taking anything away from the Pioneer's ability to dub from DVD-R to the HDD (only "presuming" it does that with no loss -- has anyone actually had one and tried it??) -- it's just that the Pioneer is a lot more money, isn't it?? Especially, in comparison to just using a couple of DVD-RAM blank discs?

OK, moving on from responding to previous posts, let me toss my own perspective on the issues here:

"How much recording do you plan to do" and "how much time do you think you'll have available to do it" has a lot to do with going computer vs. standalone. Again, if it's gonna take you something along the lines of 10 or 20 times as much time to process whatever video you've got, as it generally does in the computer world, I hope you're not talking about a whole lot more than a couple of dozen pieces of video. Me, I'm one of those "I've got over a thousand VHS tapes," and let me tell you, I could CARE LESS about fancy menus, transitions, and other "eye candy" that will take hours per DVD to create.

One question raised was "well, why do you need to edit those VHS tapes, anyway?" I've got a good answer to that one, which is the same one I've gotten from most anyone who's walked into my house and seen my six six-foot bookshelves stuffed full with around 1,500 videotapes -- "Do you ever actually WATCH any of that stuff?!???" And, my usual answer is "No -- that would take the rest of my life!!" Heck, I don't even know what's ON more than half of those tapes -- way back 20 years ago, I was keeping track of what was on each tape in a little notebook, but that got out of control about 19 and a half years ago. So, at any rate, I am NOT just going to dump all of that stuff onto thousands of DVD-R discs -- I'm going to go through each and every tape, and just grab the really, truly memorable stuff off of those tapes. In other words, "make a highlight reel." Those are all recorded at the "SP" speed, so that's about 3,000 hours of TV programming over the past 20 years, and the vast majority of it is NOT worth saving!! But, boy, I sure can remember some bits and pieces I want to save for posterity!!

So, yes, I'm going to do HEAVY editing. I'm going through tapes, and often I don't save ANYTHING from a lot of tapes. When I do run across something, I just hit the "record" button on my Panasonic DMR-E50 machine, and record it. Then I hit the "pause" button, and go find the next bit worth saving. So, I'm not editing down to the exact frame, to any extent whatsoever. I'm not putting in fancy transitions -- heck, usually, I'm not even worrying about making "separate segments" that show up on the DVD's menu. I keep track of what's on each DVD on a database on my computer, and I'll use that to really know what's on each DVD.

If that's all you need to do with your DVD recording, then an "inexpensive," decent machine like the Panasonic DMR-E50 will get the job done for you, in spades. If you want to get fancier than that, say perhaps to indeed "edit to the frame," and perhaps to "save up like bits" to put onto different DVD's, then a hard-drive model like the Panasonic DMR-E80H will let you do that kind of editing. That hard drive will also let you put chapter marks right where you want them for the resulting DVD. And, you can get fancier with the Panasonic DMR-E100H, and make those "menus with picture thumbnails" that people seem to want so badly they're willing to do this stuff on a computer.

I have mentioned the Panasonic machines because I'm familiar with them -- of course, there are other machines from other companies that have some mix of equivalent capabilities.

As for the time it takes to do a DVD on one of these standalones, you're generally just spending a few minutes to have the machine "finalize" a DVD-R disc. And, you can spend a little time entering names for your discs and menu items, but that won't take you hours and hours and hours.

And, as for picture quality, I was never, ever able to produce a DVD with my computer that achieved anything better than what I would call "slowest speed VHS quality" -- probably the result of all of the encoding and re-encoding and often even extra encoding of the video when the authoring program actually produced the DVD. And, I didn't just play with the cheapie "home" tools, either -- I tried those, yes, but I also tried TMPEG, Canopus, Cinema Craft, and so on. If you can make "better than standalone DVD recorder quality," then wonderful. My bet is that most folks will find the results of their standalone DVD recorder DVD's to be absolutely OUTSTANDING. Just get your hands on one and try a recording at its best quality, and I just can't see anyone being disappointed with that, at least if you're talking about the "better" brands.

I hope that helps add a little perspective to the discussion. I was frustrated to the point just short of tossing my computer out into the street when I was trying to do it that way, and I have been absolutely ECSTATIC with the quality and the process of doing these on my Panasonic stand-alones.

thoots

[lordsmurf]

I think DVD recorder vs computer editing setup is what differentiates the dedicated video hobbyist from the casual person wanting to be part of the digital video scene.

computer method = dedicated video hobbyist or pro/semi-pro
recorder method = casual home user

And that's fine. Perfectly fine. You are who you are.

I personally don't care about how much seasoning I put on my food, but the food hobbyist/chef would have a livid fit. This is the same kind of scenario.

Basically decide on who you are or who you want to be.