Which is the more valueble upgrade?

[cirving]

I currently have an Athlon 1800XP+ (which is 1.53GHz apparantly) and my motherboard supports up to Athlon 2600XP+ (which is 2.13GHz apparantly). However, this is the same cost as buying a 512meg PC2700 333Mhz stick of RAM (which would fit nicely into my last slot available on my motherboard - rather than REPLACING a chip and throwing it away - I do like the idea of upgrading my memory more)

Could my computer which already has 512megs of PC2700 RAM use another 512megs of PC2700 RAM, or would that be better invested in a faster CPU?

I use it for DVD Authoring and DV Editing mostly, and I like to use Adobe Premiere Pro (even though, yes it is very hardware demanding in its clunkiness.)

The Adobe Premiere System Reqs say "Pentium 4 3.06GHz recommended" and "1 Gig of RAM or more recommend"

Well, I'm nowhere near 3GHz (dunno what that translates to into AMD since the fastest I can upgrade to is still only 2.13GHz - shame Adobe wasn't optemized for AMD also) but I also have half the RAM recommendations.

Anyway, any thoughts would be great! Hoping I can make my decision today so I can go to the computer store before it closes!

Thanks!

[andyp1]

Can't remember where I heard it , maybe someone else can put me right if I am wrong, but its only worth going to a certain level of ram after that you would notice very little difference I think it was either 512 or 740M.

However video processing is very much a case of processer power.

I think I would go the processer route as I think it would be a significant improvement to my system as oppose to a slight improvement.
Bearing in mind you already have 512M of RAM.

[redwudz]

I would upgrade the CPU. I went from a XP1800 to a XP2500 Barton and there was a big improvement in encoding time. I did upgrade my MB also, which helped quite a bit. If your top MB speed is 2.13MHZ, you could go for a XP2800 at 2.08MHZ, about $110US. You may be able to use a Barton XP CPU also, check with your MB maker. The larger cache on the Barton helps a lot. I have 1GB of memory, and I couldn't really see much speed improvement over 512MB.

[ZippyP.]

Definitely the processor. I don't know about Premier, but windows and most encoders won't operate much faster when you go past 512 MB. More memory helps if you have multiple windows open and you want to switch back and forth, the info can be stored in ram instead of swapping back and forth from the hard disk. A faster processor will yield immediate and noticable results, especially when you do encoding.

[cirving]

Thanks for all the input! I was VERY close today to throwing down $100 (Canadian) on a stick of 512megs or RAM and now I'm VERY happy I didn't.

The people at the computer store had a few hypotheses though (which I'm hoping you guys can verify or offer your two cents)

They basically said my biggest bottleneck are my hard drives. Which doesn't make any sense to me because I have 3 hard drives... all are ATA133 and all have 8 megs of cache. I'm pretty sure this is top of the line (unless you count SATA which is still pretty new)... I don't understand why my hard drive setup isn't quite good enough. Sure SATA may be better (or is it anyway? I heard it's not completely optimized yet) but SATA is also brand new, and digital video editing sure ain't, so why is SATA necessary to edit efficiently? They also suggested RAID-0 which would require a new motherboard, which I dont' want to do... but hey if that's what all of you guys do, maybe I'll have to. Do all of you guys RAID your hard drives?

Now the RAM, I'm happy that you guys think I have enough at PC2700, I wouldn't want to spend anymore on RAM since apparantly if I were to completely overhaul my computer (probably switch to INTEL since they seem to be way ahead of the game, and optimized for XP and Adobe Premiere Pro) it would mean all my RAM isnt' even compatible, since a Hyperthreading CPU and Motherboard only run at DDR400 with that 'twin memory' right?

By the way, does Hyperthreading even do anything for video editing? Is that a worthwhile investment. Or should I switch to a P4 but a non-hyperthreading one so that I can keep all my DDR333Mhz memory.

The computer people made it seem that carrying my RAM over to a new system would be bad. And would slow down my system big time. Which looking at even this month's issue of computing hardware DDR333MHz hardly seems extinct. It's still fairly close to standard, isn't it?

Thanks! I know I'm getting more technical with my questions.

Appreciate any feedback you could throw, because I don't know what I'm doing. Hehe

[cirving]

One more thing I don't really get.
Adobe Premiere recommends like a 3GHz chip... aren't these BRAND new. Were they even released when Premiere Pro came out? I saw a 3.2GHz chip in a computer magazine which is apparantly the top of the line... how did they really recommend this processor? I mean this isn't mid-range or anything, this is brand new and state of the art isn't it?

Oh is there a way that I can keep my Athlon setup also? Has anyone heard of Athlon 64Bit is any good for video editing?

[dun4cheap]

Save your money so you can eventually go to Duel Channel. I feel anythin gover 1024meg is a waste, but there is definately a perfomance difference with 1024 duel channel compared to 1024 single channel or 512.

It is also my understanding that the Intel processor does not run quite as hot and is quicker with the mpg2 encoding. With that said, PCI Pro is around the corner which will be the next large upgrade for Video Editing and Video Cards in general. Video cards in the future will be used to help with encoding.

Bottom line is this, if your using generic memory then save your money so you can buy some decent duel channel ddr. Next you will need a MB that can support Duel Channel or Hyper X.

Well this is just more information for you to consider.

[andyp1]

If you bought the best out there now you could go back to the same store in three months time and what you have would not be good enough.
If we believe everything the salesmen say.

I tend when browsing this site to glance at peoples computer specs and you will find that people manage to do an awful lot with less spec than you already have.

[cirving]

Awesome. Thanks everyone... so basically? Upgrading now is pointless with PCI Pro around the corner and hyperthreading/dualchannel memory being more common?

Would upgrading from Athlon 1800XP to an Athlon2600XP be worthwhile? With my motherboard it seems 2600XP is as high as I can go.

[dun4cheap]

If you can get it cheap then yes. As for the comment on users system spec, I finally updated mine, but I surely wouldn't rely on what you see in their system profiles, I hadn't updated mine for long time. I have changed 2 motherboards and 2 processors since.

Fortunately I live in OEM country so these items come cheap here compared to other parts of the states and world.


For example Today I could have purchased a Intel P4 2.8 Boxxed processor and motherboard for $159, or a XP2200 and mb for $79.



Good Luck

[redwudz]

cirving: You never said what board you are presently using. If all you can upgrade to is a XP2600, I would go for that. But check with your MB manufacturer to see what is possible. I'll tell you there is always something faster, better and more expensive out there. What you really need is what does what you want right now. In the future we can all encode in hyperspeed (Yeah, right ) Your memory is OK, no matter what a store says. If you continue in this hobby, the best thing you can do is continue to read and study. No matter what hardware you use, the software is what does the work. Good luck!

[cirving]

Yep. I completely agree.
As for my performance from software so far... I have no speed probs with Canopus Procoder, CCE, or any encoding really. I'm patient... but using a clunky app like Premiere just isn't as smooth as I'd like. So I looked up the system recommendations and found that they recommended 1 gig of RAM... so I thought that was my easy answer as to way it's kinda clunky to get around in it.

Anyway, on to your question. It's an MSI motherboard KT4VL. Which has a 333MHz FSB... which syncs well with my DDR 333mHz ram I think.
On the website it says...
"Supports 600MHz up to 2600+ MHz processor and higher"
Does that mean 2600+ is the max recommended processor? I know they say "and higher" but that seems a little sketchy and abstract. If they're up to 2800+ why wouldn't they just write it in there if it were fully supported?
That's the only thing that makes me nervous.
That said... this would be the only upgrade I would consider for my computer (a new CPU - highest without needing a new MB). Otherwise I'll just wait for a complete overhaul with all that new and shiny technology. Just want to make sure I'll notice a speed difference first from a 1800XP+ to a 2800XP+ (or what have you...)


Hope that helps!

[dun4cheap]

redwudz, you are correct with your statement about read and study, but you went wrong when you said the software does all the work. More and more we will see software doing less of the work. Video Cards will take more of an active role than you can even imagine. We will see real time HDTV editing, faster than realtime mpg2 encoding. It is just a matter of time. The ATI9800AIW already has the capability of doing 20% of your mpg2 encoding, and this is utilized in such programs like Pinnacle Liquid Edition, some optimization in Pinnacle Studio 9 and I am sure we will see more software taking advantage of this.

[andyp1]

Please don't take this the wrong way

Although its very interesting to hear about dun4cheaps new computer it seems to stray from cirvings original question of 'Which would be the best upgrade'.

I don't think that upgrade could be 'dun4cheap'

please excuse the pun.

[johns0]

cirving,i would go for the xp2600 now,i did a few months ago and i glad i did,why wait for better stuff when everything gets outdated as soon as you buy it.

[HAMP]

I have an idea for you, you have the XP1800! Buy the memory and overclock the processor. Over clocking is not like the old days, it's so much easier to do, You can do it in your bios just make sure you get the lastest, also you mother board take the XP3000

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_cpu_support_detail.php?UI...2&NAME=MS-6712

[TBoneit]

Warning, Not following proper Bios Flash procesdures can trash your motherboard, Warning!

Not for the careless, but you probably need to flash your "Bios" to the latest version then you can upgrade the CPU to the fastest that it'll take with the new Bios. Many times a Bios upgrade adds faster CPU support.

many of the better MB vendors will also have a CPU support table on their website that'll tell what you Motherboard Bios/Hardware revsion will support.

Some motherboards have a model and hardware version that need to be matched to ensure you use the proper bios.

Personally I wouldn't overclock for encoding as that produces the most heat.

Good Luck

[redwudz]

cirving: You might want to check with your MB manufacturer to see if that is their latest advice for CPU speed. They don't always update that in the advertising. When the board came out, higher speed CPU's may not be have been available.

[ChrO]

Oh is there a way that I can keep my Athlon setup also? Has anyone heard of Athlon 64Bit is any good for video editing?

The programs needs to be compiled for 64 bit, very few are. Even if you use Windows 64bit you wont see a big increase in performance.

When a better 64 bit compiler for C, and applications, compiled with this, comes out. Then we will see some performance increase.
As for now, you will only use it in some 32 bit emulation mode, which is not faster.

As for now, go for dual channel memory and Hyperthreading.
Best regards
Chr

[donpedro]

I posted this in another post...

For people that are interested in some test results from making DVD with Pinnacle Studio version 9.0.8.5 Beta Patch

Here is test that I made on this machine with exactly 1h long DVD AVI. Project was set to maximum bitrate 7500 and MPEG sound, no transitions, no major editing, no menus.

- Windows XP SP1
- AMD Athlon 1400 MHz 266FSB
- 512MB RAM DDR PC2100
- mobo chipset VT8366-8233
- AGP 4x (only 32-bit mobo support)
- resolution 1024x768x32bit 85Hz

3:27 - Convert video
0:16 - Create second copy of video
0:02 - Create audio
0:12 - Make DVD structure
3:57 - Total time

adding memory to 1GB or different video card with hardware DirectX9 did not improved speed.

As you can see adding more memory (in my case) didn't improve rendering. I will be upgrading my PC to new motherboard (what is a point of upgrading to faster memory and CPU if mobo can't take advantage of it), faster Athlon and faster memory. I can post new results after I am done if you like...

[randytsuch]

Hi,
I did a test too.
Tried rendering with tmpgenc, with two RAM configurations.
1. 512 M of dual channel PC4000 ram
2. 256 M of single channel PC2700 ram

Configuration 1 was faster by about 5%. I returned the PC4000 ram, decided it was not worth it to save 5% time

And, you can use one stick of DDR ram in a MB decided for dual channel ram. That's what I have now. You give something up, but not much for rendering, based on my test.

So, right now, I only have 256, but I do plan to add another 256 or 512, but it will be cheaper slower ram, not expensive PC4000 sticks.

A good MB will let you clock the ram slower than the processor, so you can still use PC2100 or PC2700 with a faster processor, and higher FSB speeds.

Randy

[dun4cheap]

I wouldn't spend the extra coin for special rated Duel Channel ram. I purchased 2 identical DDR dimms and run them in duel channel with no problem.

[hhhhbk]

upgrade the cpu to xp 2600
you can get them for under £60 even less on ebay
and sell your xp1800 on ebay it must be still worth something

the ram is an expensive upgrade for something which is barely noticeable
my pc with an extra 512mb ram in was no faster at video processing(my rig xp2600 512pc2700 ram)

[dcsos]

Watch out on CPU upgrades..
Unless its an ASUS they rarely go as planned...
Sorry to be the pessimist but I know of two upgraders who are sitting on expensive chips that wouldn't go into their barely older motherboards "as promised"

in both cases, the bios was upgraded, and now even the old chip won't run!...
One was an ABIT the other was a SOYO amd MOBO

[dun4cheap]

Well in all seriousness though if you are doing any time sensitve encoding you should be running an intel chipset, or even better an intel mother board. Bottom line is overclocking, going beyond the standard configuration leaves a lot of room for timing issues. Most users with Audio synco problems are running via chipsets, onboard audio ,over clocking or all of the above. I know some will argue this, but just do a search on Audio sync and lookup the system specs. Now this would make a very interesting poll.

[TBoneit]

Watch out on CPU upgrades..
Unless its an ASUS they rarely go as planned...
Sorry to be the pessimist but I know of two upgraders who are sitting on expensive chips that wouldn't go into their barely older motherboards "as promised"

in both cases, the bios was upgraded, and now even the old chip won't run!...
One was an ABIT the other was a SOYO amd MOBO

Good Point we won't even sell Abit Mobo's... They run good when new, but we saw durability problems. Many of our customers use their computers for years, then come back for another. They want reliable, not sexy features. Soyo, well...

We push Asus. Solid and reliable. That's what i run personlly, Everytime I try something else as a testbed, they can't take the pounding.

Cheers

[cirving]

Once again, I'm reviving a dead thread

Sorry, but then again better to search and dig up and old one then to create a new one, right?

Anyway, upgrades upgrades upgrades. I'm facing that again.
I considered *all* of your suggestions and basically didn't upgrade anything

Since hyper-threading, dual channel ram, pci pro, etc. are all around the corner as being more affordable, I decided not to COMPLETELY overhaul my Athlon system. However... I guess I'm nearing "my last possible upgrades" because FSB 400 is replacing (and 800FSP, etc.) so I doubt they're still going to be making FSB333 chips. SO, maybe the Barton XP is the last chip I can even upgrade to without getting a brand new motherboard.

So. Would you guys recommend I replace my old Athlon 1800XP+ with a Barton3000XP+ (the 333MHz version)... or does the Barton 2800XP+ perform just as well? I know Bartons are supposed to be great because of the increased cache and stuff... BUT, are there any cynics that would tell me that the difference in speed would still be marginal? I'm still wondering if it's worth it. But if I upgrade anything, this option makes the most sense, and I will have pushed my PC pretty much as far as I would want to.

Thanks for ANY replys, and all the preceding input. All your advice has been terrific. (Especially saving me from buying a useless 512meg stick of RAM that wouldn't even be COMPATIBLE with my next PC - phew!!)