Do VDub deinterlace filters produce a progressive output ?

[Jacobus Serpenti]

Do VirtualDub deinterlace filters produce a progressive output when frameserving?

Hello everybody,

There are quite some deinterlace filters available for VirtualDub :
- deinterlace smooth
- deinterlace MAP
- field bob & weave
- ...
And many others, sorry for not mentionning the authors, I don't remember

As far as I can undertand these filters make one frame out of two individual fields; so I guess this means : from 50 fields per second they make 25progressive frames per second footage .
When theses frames are fed to TmpgEnc (through frame serving), shouldn't TmpgEnc mention it as non interlaced source in the source tab ?
When I preset video source type to non interlaced in TmpgEnc and then load the frame served file, it toggles back to interlaced.
So is it really non interlaced (or progressive) and thus is TmpgEnc not able to proprely detect non interlaced sources, or is it interlaced ?

The reason why I'm asking this is : on a progressive plasma panel, with a progressive scan DVD player, my video (from interlaced miniDV footage) is jerky on some scenes.
In other words : when panning across a wide landscape, the background jumps a little instead of moving smoothly.
To anticipate your question, here is how I encode :
1. Frame serving through virtualdub with filters : MSU denoiser + DeinterlaceMAP (standard settings)
2. Encode with TmpgEnc
video stream : 9000kbps 2-pass VBR non interlaced mpeg2, DC precision 10, motion precision : high quality, non filter, default quantize matrix
audio stream : 384kbps, 48kHz, 16 bits
multiplex
3. Author with Ulead DVD movie factory 2.5 SE (which does not reencode the stream since it is standard DVD)

Any help would be appreciated!!!

jacobus serpenti

[flaninacupboard]

i've never used that paticular deinterlace filter, and try to avoid deinterlacing alltogether!

first question though, doesn't your plasma panel have an interlace mode? i would have this is a pre-requisite?

after googling your filter, it seems to be an adaptive type. in my personal opinion adpative filters don't a smooth motion as a non-adaptive one. try just using the deinterlace blend fields built into Vdub and see if you get better motion. as for the TMPGenc issue, i've never found it to be reliable at detecting field orders or interlace type. just set non-interlace in the video and advanced tab, and bottom field first in the advanced tab - DV is always bottom field first.

Also, exactly what bitrate settings are you using? you say 9,000 2-pass, but is that 9,000 max? average? minimum? TMPGenc is not great at keeping to the bitrate you set, it can sometimes stray over the DVD max causing some players to choke.

[Jacobus Serpenti]

Hello Flaninacupboard,

Thanks for your reply.

I do deinterlacing because if I leave it interlaced it looks desastrous on the plasma panel. The panel cannot operate in interlaced mode; plasma panels are all designed to solely run in progressive mode (as far as my investigation goes : sony, hitachi, pionner, philips).

Yesterday I made an mpeg stream encoded at CBR 6000kbps for video, well it look more stable but it is still far from the smoothness of the original miniDV (DCR-PC1e connected to the panel through S-Video, smooth run but not nice since it is interlaced!).

But, there is a but : although it is a european panel (PAL) it has 480 lines of resolution (looks like ntsc), furthermore the JVC XV-NA77 DVD player is connected to the panel via component connectors (Y Cb Cr), the player runs in NTSC mode, although it plays flawlessly commercial PAL DVD's (why NTSC mode, since component/progressive scan is only available in NTSC mode, otherwise it is progressive via scart or YC). My DVD's, the ones I burn from my miniDV footage are PAL DVD's. Could this affect the smoothness during play back ?

Anyway I'm going to give it a try and burn an NTSC DVD, by encoding it with TmpgEnc's NTSC DVD template either at 23,97Fps and 29,97 Fps

jacobus serpenti

[SatStorm]

You need a filter chain for this....
You are PAL, so search for a filter called "PAL frame restorer".
That filter delays the offset of the fields so to mach them (one under the other, not in an offset position) so you end up with a pseudo progressive.
After this filter, test the rest deinterlace filters until the one which works best for you.

Also, concern the possibility to use dscaler and a dedicated PC (maybe an old laptop) for your plasma screen. Dscaler is an amazing program capable to deinterlace the correct way (pulldown removal) any analogue source. Does an excellent job also with true interlace transmissions (no perfect way to turn them progressive those...)

[Jacobus Serpenti]

Hello everybody,

Many thanks to both of you Flaninacupboard and Satstorm.

I've finally found the solution, it was not the encoding, neither the authoring. It was just the fact my DVD player was still in NTSC mode (factory default), now it is in PAL/progressive mode The difference is stunning : razor sharp pictures (576 lines instead of 480, alltough the plasma panel has only 480 lines, its build in descaler does an excellent job at resizing), smooth playback. What do we folks want more ?

Nevertheless I searched google for the PAL frame restorer, and I came across some other more advanced PAL deinterlacer. I'll give them a try. So if you might be interested in the results, that would a forthcoming post from me.

Be seeing you
jacobus serpenti

[flaninacupboard]

I'm glad you found your solution!

For an experiment you could still try deinterlacing and slowing to 23.976FPS and encoding as progressive NTSC. this way your panel won't have to do a resize and the disc is easily shared with any NTSC users you may know. some users were doing that with PAL DVD's back when only NTSC progressive scan was supported by TV's.