ATI Theater 550 Pro card

[farmkid]

I am currently using an older ATI TV-Wonder PCI card and it's high time I upgraded. I use it mostly for watching TV and some capture from TV to archive shows I like or for putting stuff on VCD for the kids. I just bought a DVD burner so I can transfer my Hi8 tapes to DVD, so I need a better card.

Several months ago, I read about ATI's new Theater 550 Pro chip and became very interested in it. Just yesterday, I found out that Sapphire is now selling a Theater 550 Pro based capture card called the Theatrix http://www.sapphiretech.com/vga/theatrix.asp that sells for $80-$100, though it is not widely available.

Does anyone have any experience with this card? Is it really as good as ATI says? Will it capture to AVI as well as MPEG2?

Please don't let this discussion go off into the merits of having a TBC, the various DV capture boxes, etc. I really just want to know your thoughts on ATI's new chip.

[SHS]

At this time only japan retail stores have them so unless you live your petty much out lucky for now.
As for capturing AVI far I know of it MPEG Encoder only so it NO.

[farmkid]

At this time only japan retail stores have them so unless you live your petty much out lucky for now.
As for capturing AVI far I know of it MPEG Encoder only so it NO.

You can get it here: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=320832

Trio Computers supposedly has it too. Go here: http://triointernational.com/store/front/index.cfm and search for "Theatrix" and the Sapphire card comes up. However, when you go to the product page, it is some Micron memory, so I don't know what's up with that.

[SHS]

I just saw post at
http://htpcnews.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10151&st=0&
was that you also farmkid?

[farmkid]

I just saw post at
http://htpcnews.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10151&st=0&
was that you also farmkid?

No, that's not me. But, it is good to know someone has it. I'll watch that thread to see what they have to say about it. Thanks for the link.

[neomaine]

farmkid,

If that's all you’re looking to do with it, are you sure you need a new card?

I'm not familiar with the TV-Wonder. But, I do have an older (4yrs+) ATI AIW 32mb DDR that captures to DVD-compliant MPEG2 that's just as good as my new(er) AIW 9600XT. At the same settings, can't tell the difference. Its running on a, now low-end, Athlon 1200XP with never a hiccup..

If it can go directly to MPEG2, I doubt that you'll find anything that captures considerably better for analog captures just because its newer.

You may be able to get away with simply upgrading your ATI MMC (I still use 8.7) software. If its an MPEG2 codec that you need, the one that gets installed with the free software (WinDVD? PowerDVD?) from your DVD burner will provide you with what you need. Actually, I noticed a positively remarkable difference from ATIs DVD codec to the WinDVD codec for captures. (ATIs MPEG2 codec is installed with their DVD player. You need an original ATI DVD to get the ATI DVD player going when upgrading to later version of MMC. Using WinDVD solved that issue for me)

There are a number of excellent posts and guides available for ATI capturing (to DVD compliant files) do's, don'ts and gotchas. Look at LORDSMURFS site for an excellent start (and finish).

PS: Slightly off topic but related….. One thing I’d give you a heads up on, since you’re now working with VCD files, is editing with MPEG2. Its very easy to find something to, say, cut out commercials for MPEG1 (vcd). Good old TMPGenc works great. However, since MPEG2 wasn’t designed for editing it can be a real pain in the butt…though I still use TMPGenc with success – with some help. Since TMPGenc does NOT correctly display the current position in the preview window (something about P-frames I think), you’ll NEVER get an accurate cut. So, to cheat, I use Ulead Movie Factory 2 to find all my cut points. I then use these to put in my start and stop times for the segments I want…all the time ignoring what I see in the preview window. I also have to translate MF2’s frame based (30/sec) pointers to TMPGenc’s 1/100 of a sec time based points. In other words multiply the frame by 3.3 to find the time. (Actually, I just find cut points at nice easy intervals on the 0 or 15th frame…easy enough to translate to “.0” or “.5” seconds in TMPGenc. Out with the commercials in no time with no reencoding.

Some people offer up Woble MPEGVCR for this. But since I already bought the MPEG2 license for TMPGenc for other things, I just used the free (other burner) copy of Ulead for the cut points. Didn’t feel like paying more just for an acute cutter. Yeah its two programs instead of one, but it does just as accurate.

[farmkid]

farmkid,

If that's all you’re looking to do with it, are you sure you need a new card?

I'm not familiar with the TV-Wonder. But, I do have an older (4yrs+) ATI AIW 32mb DDR that captures to DVD-compliant MPEG2 that's just as good as my new(er) AIW 9600XT. At the same settings, can't tell the difference. Its running on a, now low-end, Athlon 1200XP with never a hiccup..

The TV Wonder is a different beast from the AIW. (I wish I had an AIW...) Instead of using the Theater chip from ATI, the TV Wonder uses the old Brooktree chip that many other cards use. It is limited to a maximum reslolution of 640X240. Yep, that's right, a maximum vertical resolution of 240. That's fine for VCD, but I would really prefer a higher resolution for DVD.

As far as the editing goes, I am aware of the problems that MPEG2 presents. I most likely will just be cutting out clips, which I think MPEG2 will work okay for. The reason I am interested in the Theater 550 is that from what I have read about it in the few reviews I have seen, it really does a great job with video quality. I am hoping that I can just capture my home movies direct to a DVD-compliant file, cut the crap off each end with an as-yet-undetermined program, and burn to a DVD (with menus, chapters, etc.) It would be nice if the Theater 550 would capture to AVI too, just in case some day I want to some fancier editing; but, it's not a deal killer for me.

Thanks for the advice on how to do the cutting. I'll keep it in mind when I get that far.

[yodigity]

...the TV Wonder uses the old Brooktree chip that many other cards use. It is limited to a maximum reslolution of 640X240. Yep, that's right, a maximum vertical resolution of 240. That's fine for VCD, but I would really prefer a higher resolution for DVD.

farmkid,

I have suffered with the same limitations you are referring to for some time. Last week, however, I was finally able to capture @ 640x480 using the TV Wonder under a Win9x OS. Check my post for more info:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=254709

[SHS]

see next post

[SHS]

Sapphire Theatrix Theater 550 Pro

Here my take on this card
Few small problem I run it to rigth way
1: CTHELPER.exe crash on boot up I have Creative Lab Audigy 2 ZS, if I disable the Theater 550 Pro then reboot and wait everthing to load then re-enable Theater 550 Pro then CTHELPER dosen't crash.
2: PowerCinema dose not install on Windows2000 Pro even Cyberlink own web site is saying only for XP why did thoses guys chosse this if it can't install on Win2000 so how are Win2000 user going to use this card if there an't anything for the card after the back & side of box list Win2000 as being compatible.
3: Where ATI Multimedia Center 9.04 they have list in the User Manual but so far I haven't find anything on 9.04 only 9.03 is out and from what I under stand that dosen't work with this card.
ATI MMC software can be download but they are upgrade only let hope there come out full 9.04 for this card soon other then it nice paper wight for Win2000 user unless you use BeyondTV or Lean how use GraphEdit or get WinXP and put Phone Home carp and not so good CyberLink PowerCinema and MakeDVD stuff.
They did add very a nice Remote to package which is a CyberLink Remote.

Here are some screenshot take from Stargate SG-1 from WinTV-PVR 500MCE (Tuner input) an Theatrix Theater 550 Pro (S/Video Input) using SageTV (500MCE) and BeyondTV (550pro) recording using Womble MPEG-VCR to extract the raw image screenshot.
I like to hear your commant on what do see wrong.
S/video vs Tuner
Theatrix Theater 550 Pro 1

WinTV-PVR 500MCE 1

Theatrix Theater 550 Pro 2

WinTV-PVR 500MCE 2

Tuner vs Tuner
Theatrix Theater 550 Pro 1

WinTV-PVR 500MCE 1

Theatrix Theater 550 Pro 2

WinTV-PVR 500MCE 2

Composite vs Tuner
Theatrix Theater 550 Pro 1

WinTV-PVR 500MCE 1


All screenshot are recording from Dishnetwork DP301 receiver
Fast Action show seem to pass as far I can tell.
SageTV dosen't work with the Theater 550 Pro so only BeyondTV work some what as far I can tell you but have put with 720x480 only and no odd ball bitrate like 3.5, 5.5 things like that, but it dose seem support a lot more diff resolution and host of other thing when I check out everthing under GraphEdit.
Comb filter
Noise Reduction filter
Odd thing was Video Proc Amp it lacks Sharpness control
Oh this card seem to do only MPEG2 there no listing for MPEG1, VCD, SVCD
It also showing audio format MPEG1 Layer 2 and LPCM audio
It seem that the can do AVI becuases it was listing an PIN as YUV2 720x480 output (Didn't test this).
Here a few screenshot from GraphEdit



The noise reduction, comb filter parameters applied in the graph don't seem be sticking nor dose it do any thing far I can and I can tell you the only things that dose seem be working is some of Audio and Video properties setting.

The bad news that MPEG files generated by the Theater 550 Pro are not very compatible with some tools like let say Ulead DVD MovieFactory when I try set up auto 1 min chapters point it carp out after 6 min's in to it and using Womble MPEG-VCR MPEG "GOP fixer" I find out it show lot's of error in GOP time code which not good at all, But writing out a new files with Womble MPEG-VCR fix the problem.

Wow this more like it what an improvement when I trying do a REQ for hrlslcbr on HTPC News forum I was playing a round with NeroVision Express 3 and it see ATI 550 Pro card so I fige what hack and try it and it can capture AVI to MPEG in real time but with 50% CPU usage.
My system is Intel 2.8GHz with 1GB memory which noumle use for gaming.
Now the questions that come to mind is why dose ATI 550 Pro hardware encoder look so bad.
Theatrix Theater 550 Pro capture AVI to SoftMPEG capture

WinTV-PVR 500MCE REALtime Hardware MPEG capture

[hrlslcbr]

Hello mate
Yep it's me (the hrlslcbr at htpcnews).

[hrlslcbr]

SHS. What bitrate did you use on the last capture? I can see a lot of macroblocks on both screenshots (but there are fewer on the theatrix). I tried to level the brightness of both screenshots in photoshop to actually see differences in quality and not in the brightness levels they produce, and they seem preety similar to me, although there are more blocks on the WinTV-PVR 500MCE and the colours of the theatrix capture seem more 'natural'

[lordsmurf]

They seem close to me too, not enough differences AT ALL to claim one better than the other.

[hrlslcbr]

They seem close to me too, not enough differences AT ALL to claim one better than the other.

I agree smurfy. It is only noticeable when zoomed at 200% and up. So in a video it would be hard to notice really.

[SHS]

The bite are diff form each other that I can tell you
550 was showing 9.8MB at time under Nero and 500 was set up to main recording TV show at my custom made profile 4.5MB so I didn't have time to change X-Files 500 recording to higher 6MB rate becuases it was all ready started and did know Nero was using a high bitrate at the time but that still not the point of it.
But keep this mind being I'm on Dishnetwork which usles run at very low bitrate around SVCD PQ if not lower then that which use has macroblocks in realtime TV watching any way which commint problem with Satellite and I was going to switch to Voom which a lot HDTV channel but it look like they sold out to DiskNetwork oh well we can't win them all hope next year Dish get off a@@ with HDTV channel rigth now there only 5 them which cost way to much for that few number of channel.
Add note 550 was on S/Video where 500 was tuner at the time

[SHS]

Yes lordsmurf they are diff in first setp screenshot where 500 sharper and the colors don't look so washed out but the 550 is brighter other last set of screenshot X-Files clip 550 is just as sharper as 500 but the 550 is tab bit brighter which to me look rigth on the money I think.

[farmkid]

Thanks SHS for all your testing and comments. So far, I am impressed with this card. No, it isn't perfect, but for the price, it seems to do a very good job.

I do have a question for you that no one seems to have addressed yet in this forum or in the HTCPnews forum mentioned earlier. Have you tried capturing any Macrovision protected video yet? Does this card have the same issues with Macrovision and less than perfect video signals that other Theater chips have?

[SHS]

That coming soon hope toww if I can get some time to do that

[SHS]

Sorry farmkid your question is by defaults the macrovision protected is on I guest you to have a TBC for that or RIP dics and when macrovision kick end on this cards you see nothing but noise like in the below screentshot and there a good change that this card could also support (CGMS-A) Content Generation Management System for Analog as well which I can't test.

[hrlslcbr]

shs: do you have any old tape which shows some degradation in quality. I want to know if this chip has the same macrovision problem than the "old" theatre 200.
Thanks.

[SHS]

sorry that I don't have any which caned last year

[lordsmurf]

Yes lordsmurf they are diff

I disagree. I think it's mostly imagination.

Even if there was a slight brightness change, adjust your proc-amp-like controls in the software to correct it as needed. Not hard. Something that minute could be the fault of the wires.

[SHS]

lordsmurf all ready said Video Proc Amp it lacks Sharpness control and beside that I test with defaults setting

[Iamnotsam]

so I fige what hack and try it and it can capture AVI to MPEG in real time but with 50% CPU usage.
My system is Intel 2.8GHz with 1GB memory which noumle use for gaming.
Now the questions that come to mind is why dose ATI 550 Pro hardware encoder look so bad.

Man, there must be something wrong with this 550 Pro card!!!
Because if it is truly a hardware-base mpeg encoder card(according to ATI), it should never need this much CPU usage during encoding. Think about it, the encoding should be done by the encoder chip on the card, and not by the cpu, so there is no way that it can use up to 50% CPU usage, especially on a 2.8GHz machine. I can't see anything beside encoding that can use up so much CPU power during the encoding process, so I really doubt it got a real hardware mpeg encoder chip on the card.

Anyway, thanks for your post; it really have enlightened me.
I will wait for more reviews though, just to get more opinions. Maybe ATI can fix things up with the new driver or software.
BTW, you got a really nice web site(your own review site).

[SHS]

Iamnotsam it has a Hardware MPEG Encoder on board when it in use there is no CPU usage recording to MPEG2 at MAX bitrate with Hardware Encoder, but this card also seem allow you to do AVI record that why therea 50% CPU usage with NeroVision Express 3, iuVCR and who know what other AVI tools that works to.

[Iamnotsam]

Iamnotsam it has a Hardware MPEG Encoder on board when it in use there is no CPU usage recording to MPEG2 at MAX bitrate with Hardware Encoder, but this card also seem allow you to do AVI record that why therea 50% CPU usage with NeroVision Express 3, iuVCR and who know what other AVI tools that works to.

Thanks for clear things up for me.
It starts to look much more attractive to me now, lol.
When you said recording to AVI, do you mean huffyuv format or uncompress avi format? The cpu usage does seems a little bit high for a uncompress format. Anyway, I only do huffyuv capture so I am not very sure.

[SHS]

720x480 uncompress avi only

[hrlslcbr]

Just to clarify shs's last post. The 50% CPU usage was capturing to AVI and converting to MPEG-2 in real time, not just capturing to AVI.

[awhitney]

I guess its not worth it to upgrade from the leadtek wintv Expert

[SHS]

that rigth hrlslcbr