6 open boxes of DMR-E80H in CC store...

[donpedro]

I was today in Circuit City and they had 6 pieces of Panasonic DMR-E80H open boxes for $559 sitting on shelves. What does it mean ? Is it still dificult to work with DVD Recorders for average Joe ? Or people don't like quality ? What are you thoughts ? Little too many, don't you think ?

[tag]

...What are you thoughts ? Little too many, don't you think ?

My thoughts are as follows:

1) Yes, 6 is a bit much for one store. OTOH, I've seen 4 open box Philips DVDR75's at one BB, 2 open box GX7's at another BB (which represented their entire stock.....i.e. no factory-sealed GX7's), and 3 open box E50's at my local CC store.

2) My father-in-law bought that Sansui model from Sears before Christmas and has yet to figure out how to use the thing. According to him, "it's just not as simple as it looks......still working my way through the manual", but he hasn't returned it. I suppose some people feel they have to read every single word in the manual before using these machines and, not having the patience of my father-in-law, decide to return them rather than deal with the verbosity.

3) These stores (particularly CC and BB) have extremely liberal return policies which allow some (less than forthright) folks to play some serious games. I mean, what's to stop someone from buying one of these machines, transferring an entire VHS, 8/Hi8, DV, or whatever, video collection to DVD, and then returning the machine to the store for a full refund within the 30 day return period? Similarly, the return policies allow customers to play "musical recorders" (i.e. buy one model, test it, return it for another model, test that one, return it........ad infinitum).

4) I'll bet some people don't really get sticker shock until they see the charge appear on their credit card bill. The customer (or the customer's wife, husband or whatever) sees the charge, flips out, and, the unit goes back to the store in a flash.

In sum, I don't think it's possible to draw conclusions about quality from the open box units on the shelves.

[donpedro]

Maybe I was not clear. I know that quality of these units is good. My comment was more in meaning that "people expected better quality". When they try 6h mode like on VHS tape for example. Their expectations must be "it's digital, more expensive, so why is it worse than VHS tape". Don't you think that this might be reason too ?

EDIT: Actualy I think that this one... DMR-E80H is one of the best (combining features like HD and Editing)

[ejai]

A very good observation. I too have also wondered the same thing, I've shown many people the quality and advantages of owning a dvd recorder over a vhs recorder. It's funny most people do acknowledge the difference but care very little about changing anything. They are happy with the vhs recorders and wouldn't want to go through a learning curve unless the benifits out weigh the negatives.

I also think that the format war hasn't helped much in this area either. I know technical people who still don't understand the difference between dvd-/+r. Once you attempt to explain the difference people lose interest and decide to stay with what works for them.

Another example is the Panasonic recorders that have a weird way of authoring the disks and cause some dvd players to behave eratic. In other words these players have problems playing the disks. Most people know that if they record a vhs tape it will play in any vhs player, this makes most people comfortable and is part of the reason some won't even look any further.

Greed has hurt the dvd recording market, I personally have spent much money on all sorts of devices to record dvd movies and wasted a lot of time trying to get perfection. I must admit once the dvd recorders came out I was able to finally create digital video that met the standards advertised by so many digital capture manufactuers. The only negative side is that I must first record to dvd-ram then use my computer to author (if I want a disk that will be at least 90% compatible).

Many people are not into changing their lives like so many of us on this site are willing to do to enhance our video watching experience. I've seen it first hand and I must say I do understand why people are reluctant.

[tag]

Maybe I was not clear. I know that quality of these units is good. My comment was more in meaning that "people expected better quality". When they try 6h mode like on VHS tape for example. Their expectations must be "it's digital, more expensive, so why is it worse than VHS tape". Don't you think that this might be reason too ?

Absolutely! In my earlier post, I was just offering a few of the (admittedly) less obvious reasons for the plethora of open boxes on the shelves of some of these stores. Further, it's all really nothing more than speculation.

I wholeheartedly agree that the quality might not meet the increased expectations of some customers. It could be that some folks want to record from cable or satellite feed but the signal is so crappy that the end result would be substantially the same regardless of the medium used for recording. It could also be as you stated; they're trying to cram as many hours as possible on a disk. Take your pick.

Personally, I don't find anything on television (cable or otherwise) worth saving. My only interest in these machines is for transferring home videos to DVD and don't plan to use anything other than the highest quality setting for that purpose.

[Infiniti2004]

I have a feeling the customers could not operate tha damn machines Meanwhile that price is still too high for opened box. I got my panny 80 brand new for 489.00.

P.S. I agree that CC is very liberal with their return policy. I once bought an HP computer for a lil over 1000 bucks, kept it for 2 days then returned it. I went back 2 days later and the same computer was on the shelf as an opened box item for 795.99 . Of course I bought it right there and then

[Gil T Pleasure]

3) These stores (particularly CC and BB) have extremely liberal return policies...

Which is why they now charge 15% restocking fee unless the item is returned unopened.

[tag]

3) These stores (particularly CC and BB) have extremely liberal return policies...

Which is why they now charge 15% restocking fee unless the item is returned unopened.

Gil,

Haven't heard of that one yet. BB does charge a 15% restocking fee but it only applies to a few items, viz:

A 15% restocking fee will be charged on returns or exchanges of any opened notebook computer, camcorder, digital camera or radar detector, unless defective.

Otherwise, the last I heard (as of a couple of days ago) is that CC has an absolute 30 day, money back guarantee with no restocking fee on any item. BB's return policy is as stated above (again, last I heard). So, it appears that one could return the likes of a standalone DVD recorder to BB within 30 days without penalty.

[DanceMan]

I have a feeling the customers could not operate tha damn machines Meanwhile that price is still too high for opened box. I got my panny 80 brand new for 489.00.

Well, at my CC store, there were about four open-box E80's, but I noticed that one of the prices was alot lower than the others. I asked why, the sales guy said he didn't know. This one did not have a box, but was sealed with everything except the manual. The remote still had the tape over the battery compartment, so I don't even think it had been used. I also decided to opt for the extended warranty, but I asked for a discount on it. He checked with the manager on this, and the manager did give a $20.00 discount. So, I decided to buy it.

It was at that time the sales guy then told me why the price was lower: They had mis-marked the price (thinking it was the other model without the HDD), and when he had checked with the manager on the warranty discount, they discovered it then, but they decided to let me have it anyway. (I actually suspected as much)

Oh, the price? $399.00!!

Even if the thing is a lemon (it dosen't seem to be, have done a couple disks so far), at least I've got the ex-warranty to back it up, and I don't expect to keep it for three years anyway, just long enough for the dual-layers to come out, then I'll sell this one (hopefully getting a good chunk of what I have invested in it!)

[van_d_man]

I think the reason is the quality, the length of recording and the price.
I am expecting on 6HR DVDR to get not worst then 6hrs VHS quality….1 tape is 70 c , you can rewrite on it,
And the DVD+RW media are still over a $1.30 ( if you buy 50 bundle).

I am waiting for futures like ‘delete all after this point” ‘delete all before this point’, more then 120 min quick start recording..
Also constant input signal on all inputs and all outputs – you do not have to select input source and output source…
And MPEG4 format which will give you HQ on 10 HRS mode…
It will take 1.5-2 years…to get the technology to this stage.
Remember the first DVD players 300$ - no Kodak, no JPG, no MP3 – and now- 30$ player - with everything!!!

Its worth it to put up with this kind of c..p if the cost of the DVDR was around 100$.
I am using hi-fi stereo 4 head 19 mc head VCR – the 6 HR quality ( on selected tapes) compares to the SP quality of my DVDR ( cyberhome 9000) and I put 4 movies for less then a 1$ and can erase it later….
I have tapes made 10 years ago ( plaid just once or twice ) the quality hasn’t dropped.
If you scrach your disk – you have to trush it, the tape gets tangled and continues to play.

About the good return policy:
Costco is No 1!

6 months complete refund policy, even without box and manual, no questions asked!

[biznutch]

I saw one of these open box in CC today for $325. I tried to talk the manager down to $299 but the lowest he would go was $320. They are all over town so I'll try a few more locations. BTW, a new one was on sale for $423. They also had a bunch of the E50s open box for $249.

[oldfart13]

I'm definitely a quality freak, not like van_d_man. That means no recordings at EP speed. My collection of VHS tapes was always recorded in SP speed (or Beta X-2) instead of LP or EP. But I can understand where he is coming from. I have a friend who also wants 6 hours with excellent quality on a disk. That may be soon with new High Definition recorders but they will initially be expensive. The problem is also with what people will put up with. Those EP cable TV recordings that my friend makes are really inferior to my satellite sourced VHS SP tapes but not to his eyes. I think that may be that he doesn't want to admit defeat on this issue. Or else, for him, VHS EP is "good enough." Well, that's the difference between he and I...