Is Gaming/Gambling Bad?

[mec_modifier]

I am employed at a Horse Race Track in Oklahoma. For those of you across the pond and the other people in the US who don't know a lot about the state of Oklahoma, it's in the middle of the Bible belt, full of good Southern Baptists, hard-core conservative types. Which means that I am an agent of the devil for working at a place that offers wagering.

Anyway, business at the 3 tracks in Oklahoma has gone down the tubes over the last 5 or 6 years, before I even started working in the industry. The tracks lose money, mostly to Indian Casinos and Off Track Betting facilities run by the various tribes in our state. Since the tribes are recognized as an independant entity from the United States, they can do whatever they want regarding gambling, including Las Vegas style gaming which is otherwise illegal in our state. In light of our situation, our state Senate has passed a bill that will allow the 3 tracks to offer limited forms of gaming, basically glorified electronic bingo machines, in order to begin to make a profit. All financial studies show that this will pull the tracks out of the slump they are in and revitalize the horse racing industry in the state (Oklahoma is a huge source for Quarter Horses). The best part of this bill is that the state will be able to take a decent percentage of tracks income to help fund our horrible education system. It's a win-win situation. Without this bill, more than likely the tracks will shut down by the end of 2005, and horsemen around the state will probably be forced to move out of state to continue their operations.

However, the bill is now in the House of Representatives, and the majority is claiming that by adding any kind of gaming or gambling will corrupt families, increase suicides, cause divorces, and for every dollar the tracks take in the state will have to pay seven more dollars to help rehabilitate problem gamblers. This is kinda far-fetched...we have over 82 tribal operated casinos in our state, and there has been no epidemic of gambling. It's just plain politics, I guess. In such a moral state as ours, we can't have gaming, even if it helps education.

So I started wondering: Is gambling really all that bad? Sure, some folks take it too far, but the same can be said for alcohol, food, even DVD piracy. I wanted to get a feel for your opinion on this, to see if I'm the only one who thinks this way.

On a side note, the House is voting on this bill sometime later on today. IF it passes, all is good. IF it DOESN'T, I get to find a new job...ain't life peachy

I'll keep everyone informed on the final vote.

[mrtristan]

There's been debating over legalizing gambling in Hawaii for over a decade. There's a lot of illegal gambling that goes on anyway, so I don't see why our state government doesn't just legalize it and take a percentage of the action. I'm not familiar with Oklahoma, but I believe legalized gambling would be a good thing, for Hawaii.

[Hardcoreruss]

Gambling is only a mugs game if you are a mug.

[Cobra]

I have played the lottery three times. The last time, I got four numbers and won £49.

I've quit while I'm ahead!

Cobra

[housepig]

irresponsible people will destroy themselves in a myriad of ways, whether or not they are legal. and when you remove the prohibition-generated naughtiness factor, you'll find that about the same percentage of people will have a problem gambling as they would when it was illegal.

tax it heavily, use the tax money to subsidize treatment and education programs.

I'm in Minnesota, and we have several tribes that run casinos. It was fun once or twice, but I have no interest in going back.

[indolikaa]

Gaming is fine so far as I'm concerned. Hell, I survived my first two years in college on a full scholarship and poker winnings.

Ditto what housepig said. Irresponsible people have credit cards, alcohol, prostitutes, furry animals and other vices that bring them down. That doesn't mean responsible people can't manage.

[Kevin abq]

We've had Indian gaming here for ages. You almost can't stand anywhere and throw a cat without it landing on Indian land.

We got a state lottery here in New Mexico for the first time about 10 years ago. At the time there were all the usual complaints about working poor using their paychecks for that instead of bread and milk, etc. But the bill passed anyways probably because the NM Lottery funds scholarship programs for bright kids who can't afford college and can't qualify for a grant. It's a good thing for everyone because the state gets its money, the kids get education, and the players get the chance at a big payoff. The only ones pissed off were the Indian casinos, who had a monopoly on gambling before the lottery (no tears shed there), and the religious right-wing, who among other things, believe having sex while standing up is bad because it may lead to dancing :P

The argument that people will buy tickets instead of food is weak. Since when would you want someone monitoring what you buy every week to make sure you're satisfying the nutritional requirements of your children? If I want to feed my kids Ding-Dongs and Jolt Cola exclusively, that's my prerogative. If I want to spend $1,000 every week on lottery tickets, that would be stupid, but it would be my right to do whatever I want with my money. Last time I checked, in this country we're free to pursue happiness and that includes lotteries, gaming and Ding-Dongs

[jeex]

a problem with state lotto's is the fact that the money doesnt go where they say it will.. kind of like the tabacco settlement hasnt.. bascially it gives the fat cats more money to play with.. if they've taxed you as far as they can, they'll throw in a lottery.. you dont see rich people playing the lottery that much, because they know its a waste of money.. if you save the money you spend on the lottery and invest it you'll do far better than you normally would have playing the lotto/lottery.. i'm not saying its a bad thing, its just a stupid thing.

of course your friends/family wont admit that they're losing.. they're gonna tell you about "oh 2 weeks ago, i bought a scratchoff and won $50"..

i know some people in my area who do spend the money they have on scratchoff tickets instead of bread & milk.. its pretty sad to see..

then again, there are some people who do play with limits..

i buy maybe 1 or 2 scratchoff ($1) tickets a month.. i dont go in expecting to win, but hey if i do then great, if i dont then i only lost $1.. its not going to prevent me from paying bills.

[VCDHunter]

Gambling is only a mugs game if you are a mug.

ditto

@ kevin abq the Carlin quotes are cool but lose the Leary snippets, he's a hack.

[Kevin abq]

Gambling is only a mugs game if you are a mug.

ditto

@ kevin abq the Carlin quotes are cool but lose the Leary snippets, he's a hack.

Done.

a problem with state lotto's is the fact that the money doesnt go where they say it will

Always a problem when you have political bureaucrats running anything. It's a lot like United Way, or March Of Dimes here. Some of them have improved, at the public's insistence, but at one time there was a major charity who only applied 5% of each dollar to the real cause. The rest went towards paying their overhead.

My nephew Jakey got lottery money and attended Stanford, so I know at least some of it went towards its intended purpose.

[VCDHunter]

Gambling is only a mugs game if you are a mug.

ditto

@ kevin abq the Carlin quotes are cool but lose the Leary snippets, he's a hack.

Done.

Excellent. 8)

[mec_modifier]

Well, I just learned that the Bill passed the House and goes to the Governor to get signed in a few weeks. I look at it as a double-edged kind of thing: On the one hand, my career has just been moved from wondering daily if it will be there tomorrow to being set in stone for a least 5 years, and Oklahoma's Horse Industry and Education system have a chance of surviving. The bill is very specific about how the state's share of the profit will be divided among the different educational venues, so there shouldn't be too much concern about it being spent for congressional pay raises and crap like "Oklahoma Bass Fisherman Day." On the other hand, the chance of an increase in problem gamblers could potentially go up.

To be honest, I personally am not into gambling except for a few computer poker games that came with my laptop, which doesn't involve real money. I don't necessarily think that gambling is bad, but I'll admit it isn't great. No matter what, people are going to gamble, whether it's at a racetrack here in Oklahoma, or at a tribal casino, or by taking a trip to Las Vegas, so I figure why not make it available. We'll just have to see how it goes over the next couple of years, with luck it will work out for the best for everyone.

[RabidDog]

There's a lot of illegal gambling that goes on anyway, so I don't see why our state government doesn't just legalize it and take a percentage of the action.

Substitute the word DRUGS......legalize em .. NOW!.. its prohibition all over again.. only 10x more money is involved.

[indolikaa]

and the religious right-wing, who among other things, believe having sex while standing up is bad because it may lead to dancing

The Tube-Steak Twist.

I used to play those Scratchers in New Mexico all the time. The poker one was my favorite, and it seemed like I always won just enough to buy a few more tickets. Or vodka.

Last time I checked, in this country we're free to pursue happiness and that includes lotteries, gaming and Ding-Dongs

And vodka. Don't forget the damned vodka. What are Ding-Dongs without vodka?! That's like Rock Against Drugs, or Christians Against Christ.

[Kevin abq]

The Tube-Steak Twist.

Or the whang-o tango
Never tried vodka and Ding-Dongs. Sounds like an all-American breakfast to me

[indolikaa]

I'd not complain.

Risky, though. A bad morning could entail pouring the vodka in the gas tank and drinking from the gasoline nozzle, given the zombie state I'm in at 5:30AM.

[VCDHunter]

I'd not complain.

Risky, though. A bad morning could entail pouring the vodka in the gas tank and drinking from the gasoline nozzle, given the zombie state I'm in at 5:30AM.

I can't figure out whether that'd be worse for you or your motor

[indolikaa]

Well, the Greeks always say, "Put a little Ouzo in your tank"

Me? Nah! I grew up on Hatch green chile. Nothing bothers my stomach anymore.

[Kevin abq]

I can't figure out whether that'd be worse for you or your motor

Probably make it run better

Me? Nah! I grew up on Hatch green chile. Nothing bothers my stomach anymore.

102 octane Grow up on that and you can eat scrap iron

[indolikaa]

Probably make it run better

Yeah, at this altitude it probably would. With premium over $2 per gallon and we're only in February, I'll be looking for alternative fuel choices.

Too bad cars don't run on horseshit. We've got plenty of that out here.

[Kevin abq]

Probably make it run better

Yeah, at this altitude it probably would. With premium over $2 per gallon and we're only in February, I'll be looking for alternative fuel choices.

Too bad cars don't run on horseshit. We've got plenty of that out here.

Or hot air, with it being an election year :P

[rallynavvie]

While I can't say I'm totally supportive of taking advantage of the weak-willed in our society I also cannot say I'm against it. I've always been a bit of a Social Darwinist. I've been to Vegas a few times and spent the amount I allotted myself before going, I've also only been to the local casinos a few times with friends. I've never been to a casino by myself as I would have no conviction in going there of my own free will. I took a statistics course in college where we figured out the mean gains of gambling and it isn't pretty. In fact when I do go to casinos I only play cards as that takes skill, unfortunately my skill has been underappreciated at one Vegas casino and two local casinos. How can you not count cards when playing blackjack? I do it without even thinking about it because it makes so much sense to keep tabs on how many aces have been played and how many face cards are out.

Aside from casino I don't even spend money on lottery items as that's a waste of money as well (we're talking big picture here). If I wanted to strike it rich quick I'd prey on the gullable people of our society selling pharamones on eBay or some damn thing. I do still get together with friends once or twice a month to play poker, but that's quite different from the gambling we're talking about. At least then I know the money is going to a friend who will then buy food and drinks for the next poker night

[Kevin abq]

I also know my limitations. I am a horrible gambler. Years ago I had to spend a few days in Tonopah, Nevada for a test and we stayed at the Station House, a casino/hotel. I felt happy that I ended my two-hour slot machine playing with the $5 in quarters I started with. When we went back to Vegas and visited Caesar's Palace, I just watched the razor haircut, $1,000-suited high-rollers plunking down two or three $5,000 chips on a blackjack hand. I shook my head and walked away after a while. Not my world, but certainly it is for some and more power to them

[indolikaa]

Casinos in New Mexico are a place to go to eat good food. My personal favorites are Santa Ana Star, Camel Rock Casino and the Acoma Sky City.

They're a good place to go if you like to gamble, too.

At least then I know the money is going to a friend who will then buy food and drinks for the next poker night

Well, I suppose that's better than buying weed.

[rallynavvie]

Oy, just what are you insinuatin'?

Actually the casinos here are a great place to go for food too. The buffets are a bit pricey but totally worth it. Vegas was not quite the same, but the free drinks were nice. They just kept bringing me different kinds of aged single malts while I was at the blackjack tables. I had to pace myself, I think they were trying to get me inebriated in order to stay and gamble more

[pacmania_2001]

Some of my friends would say I have a gambling problem if you asked them.

The way I approach gambling is have a set amount and be prepared to lose it most of the time. Take the last couple of days for example, I was on a cruise ship with gambling (international waters) and from my initial investment of $20 I got a good 6 hours of entertainment, a bunch of free drinks and met some cool people.

In most westernised countries you have to realise the minorities rule. Why? Because they are the ones that actually take action and go out there and protest. They are the ones that are going to be seen on the news and in the papers.

[ChrisX]

In Sydney and in this State, we have too many poker machines as the largest outside of Las Vegas.

They are everywhere in venues such as in a casino, hotels and clubs as such a problem in our community.

I never used a poker machine myself and this problem is even affecting me in some way. I can’t drink beer in certain venues during the morning.

I am unable to drink a beer in a club before 10 am due to this gambling law requiring them to close for six hours daily and I have to go to a nearby hotel.

This is ridiculous and this doesn’t really cut the problem gamblers. It is silly to allow a hotel having poker machines as in unrestricted times and not so at the clubs. This is madness.

[glockjs]

i won a 180 bucks last week when i cashed my paycheck. got a chance to win somethin and a free drink when i cashed my pay check. now how many pay days would be like that without casinos. only in vegas