Best tool for DMR-E80H users

[JeffM]

I'm looking for a DVD editing tool that is fully compatible with the Panasonic DMR-E80H,
which creates MPEG-2 files.

I'm having timing problems trying to edit some of these MPEG-2 files.

[accountwiz]

MPEG Video Wizard from www.womble.com is what I use to edit my e80 files. I dub them from the Panny onto DVD-RAM and use the Wizard to demux them onto my hard drive for editing and export to mpg.

PM me if you need greater detail.

[JeffM]

I tried both mpeg-vcr and MpegVideoWizard trial versions, but they both have problems with
the timing. MpegVideoWizard will not recognize cuts made by the DMR-E80H. When it reaches
a cut, like where I edited out a commercial using the DMR-E80H, the timing resets back to zero
and the video jumps somewhere else.

When the timing is lost, MpegVideoWizard will write audio from some other clip in the wrong
place, or it will write the wrong video, or lose it all together.

I'm sure somebody else has come across the same problems. The MPEG-2 files that I'm editing
are VRO files that come straight from the Panasonic DVD-RAM disk.

I just don't know how to fix it.

[accountwiz]

I do... PM me and I will reply in the morning.

[Specialist]

Ulead DVD MovieFactory 3 "Disc Creator" is worth a look.

ULEAD has just released two brand new versions (3.0) of DVD MovieFactory.

I just read the full features list on the Web page at the following link:

http://www.ulead.com/dmf/features.htm

One of the new versions of Ulead DVD MovieFactory supports AC-3 AUDIO, which should work great with the Panasonic DMR-E80.

So now Ulead has put AC-3 functionality into a much more affordable software product that will allow users of Sony DVD disc camcorders to CAPTURE/EDIT/BURN their MPEG video!

There are two new versions of Ulead DVD MovieFactory:

- Ulead DVD MovieFactory 3 Disc Creator

(This is the version with AC-3 Audio Support)

- Ulead DVD MovieFactory 3 Standard Version

Here's a comparison chart explaining the difference between the two new versions:

http://www.ulead.com/dmf/compare.htm

I'm downloading the "Disc Creator" version right now.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

I'm looking for a DVD editing tool that is fully compatible with the Panasonic DMR-E80H,
which creates MPEG-2 files.

I'm having timing problems trying to edit some of these MPEG-2 files.

[macleod]

TMPGENC DVD Author is awesome for this. I have the E30 and dvdram discs. Capture it to ram. put it in my computer, author, cust, etc. with dvd author, and burn.

[mazinz]

i agree with the above post. i too used tmpg dvd author to re-do a ram disc i had with a bunch of misc on it. Most other apps (and womble) would have that "stop/start' problem you mentioned (never ran across that one till the other day).

im sure i could have went the pro-route and used DVD Maestro. but that would have taken too much time.
Tmpg was the only app that did not do the clip start/stop problem. I was able to put chapters wherever i needed them, it worked like a charm

[JeffM]

The most important feature I really need is the ability to recognize cuts made by the
DMR-E80H, which MpegVideoWizard doesn't do. But it does have other features I also like:

- full-screen editing/playing
- frame-level editing to the millisecond
- hotkey snapshot function
- handles large 4.7GB files
- MPEG-2 w/AC3 support
- no re-encoding
- costs about $100 w/rebate

It's only missing that crucial feature. Too bad.

[accountwiz]

JeffM,

I have no idea why you didn't PM me, but you're wrong about MPEG Video Wizard not working properly with a VRO file.

You simply demux it from the command toolbar and edit it to your heart's delight. Nothing is faster than Womble, either.

I thought $100 was too much, though, but I guess time is money.

[JeffM]

Hi, I'm only on for a couple of minutes at a time. What is so special about demuxing?
The video is already in MPEG-2 w/AC3 format. All all I want to do is edit it cleanly,
not take it apart.


This error should be easy to reproduce. I have it on all my MPEG-2 files.

Record a hour long TV show with commercials (in XP mode for good measure)
using the DMR-E80H, directly on a Panasonic DVD-RAM disk.

Use the DMR-E80H's Shorten Segment tool to cut out commercials.

Copy the VRO file to your hard drive using a DVD-RAM compatible drive.
Or you can just edit it directly on the DVD-RAM drive. It shouldn't matter.

Import the VRO file into MpegVideoWizard and examine the timing around where
the commercials were cut out. Sometimes it is very obvious, sometimes it is
not. The picture may freeze for a couple seconds or the timing may reset to zero.
Trying to trim around these cuts does not help at all. Also, after writing out
an edited clip, it may seem at first you have avoided this error, but when
importing the edited clip back into MpegVideoWizard, you may notice missing
timing, or other video/audio errors.

[JeffM]

And I don't think the problem is just limited to the Shorten Segment tool.

Any kind of cut that the E80H makes, like Dividing segments or dubbing several different
segments onto one DVD-RAM disk from the HD, may give timing problems.

I can probably avoid this by not doing any cutting at all on the E80H, but then that
makes my E80H recorder useless as an editing tool.

[Tearren]

JeffM

Try this.

1) Edit on the E80.
2) Record to DVD-RAM at 1x (Not High speed dub).

This should solve your problem.

Tearren

[JeffM]

I don't believe the dubbing speed has anything to do with the timing errors. The errors
are very specifc. They are only located at the cuts, or perhaps where different segments
are combined. And besides, I'm recording directly on the DVD-RAM disk, so no dubbing
is required.

I've only found two ways to avoid these errors:
- Don't edit on the E80H. Record the entire show without pressing the stop button.
- Use the pause button when a commercial appears. This doesn't seem to make cuts,
but just puts the recording process on hold.

Doing one of the above works flawlessly with MpegVideoWizard, but still, I would
like to free up as much space as possible after recording, so I do want to use the
E80H's editing tools.

[Tearren]

My suggestion was not flippant and intended to help you. So, further explanation is required... ok...

From the WholeWideWeb website..

"...Also important: If you did any trimming/shortening of your video, do NOT use the high-speed dubbing to copy to DVD-RAM. You need to force a re-encode in order for the MPEG2 stream to be "sealed" against future audio/video sync problems. I've tried using both XP and FR modes to copy to DVD-RAM and both work fine."

-Heavyharmonies

So...

If you can record to the hard drive and edit on the hard drive, then record to DVD-RAM at 1x speed (Not high speed dub)

In your case, you could high-speed dub back to the hard drive, and then record BACK to the DVD-RAM at 1x speed.

I had the same problems you had and this solved it. Also, as a side note, you should be recording in "Fixed" mode and NOT "VBR"

Are you by chance an engineer?

Hope this helps,
Tearren

[JeffM]

Thanks for the explanation. Nope, no engineering skills here.

I believe I'm recording in VBR mode. I really haven't changed any options since the
E80H came out of the box. I guess I have to take a look at what the difference is
between these two modes.

BTW, I'm trying to make the recording/editing process as fast and as convenient as
possible, so recording directly on DVD-RAM, instead of the hard drive, is the fastest
way for me to start editing with software.

[fsuorange]

what is vbr mode and will changing it decrease the quality of the recording?

[macleod]

vbr = variable bit rate

It isnt "suppose" to decrease the quality of the encoding, but in my opinion it does. What it does is as it is capturing, it looks at the complexity of the frame and figures out what bit rate should be used for it and what resolution. It makes sense, technically, if you have high motion scene, use 704x480 9000'ish bit rate. For a still scene, use 352x480 at 3000'ish bit rate. The result is more data per disc. This is also used when you do flexible recording. the panny swag's (scientific wild ass guess) what it will take to fill up the disk based on the amount of time you put into it. It is good for captures that are 1.5 hours. You wont do 2 hour mode and degrade the whole recording.

Personally, I would do CBR (constant bit rate), but other members will disagree.

[donpedro]

Also, as a side note, you should be recording in "Fixed" mode and NOT "VBR"

Isn't "Fixed" still VBR ? Did you check bitrate of this kind of recording ?

[fscrocco]

fixed means fixed resolution. The Pannys will sometimes drop down to 352x480 then back to 704x480. When you export from ram using some software, it will break up into seperate mpg files because its mixed resolution within the same vro file. I record in fixed only, so it stays 704x480 but it always encodes using VBR.

I've been doing this for 2 years with my Panny dmr-e20. I copy the vro file onto the computer, change extension to mpg, import into DVD Workshop, and author.

[Tearren]

donpedro wrote:

Isn't "Fixed" still VBR ? Did you check bitrate of this kind of recording ?

fscrocco is correct and explained it much more eloquently than I could have.

Sometimes, I have had problems in the past when doing conversions, not everytime though. I could tell the setting was the cause b/c in DVD UMF2 it would show segments with different resolutions. When I switched to Fixed, it solved the problem. So, to avoid all future problems, I record only in "FIXED". Also, IMHO there is not picture quality difference using that setting.

Tearren

[fsuorange]

So is that why I have a tmpngeng message whenever I import a dvd ram file saying that it cant import it because of different compressions etc.?

If so, is there any way I can get past this? I have tried importing using the import file button but have noticed that on some frames, the picture is shrunk to half of the frame vertically. How do I prevent this?

[Tearren]

fsuorange

I have never used tmpngeng for coversions from an HS2, so I can't say for certain, but I think it could be the cause of the problem. What you are describing sounds similar to the problems I had.

In order to solve it, if I were you, I would change my setting under "Set-up-Video" to "Fixed" instead of "VBR" for all new recordings. If you have a standalone with a hard drive, you could try to dub it back to the recorder at high speed, and record back to DVD-RAM at 1x speed (thereby, forcing a re-encode) after you change the settings. I am not sure if this will work for sure, but it may be worth a try.

Good Luck,
Tearren