External Firewire HDD + Laptop + ADVC-100 = My Problems

[Will Hay]

You may have seen my posts over in the 'computer' forum, but having tested last night I thought I'd post my results so anyone else thinking along the same lines may pick something up, or better yet help me to improve what I have.

I have an IBM Thinkpad, a P3 1ghz with around 12gb of HDD space left (just under an hours worth of capture space, bastard thing!).
I also have a Canopus ADVC-100 (I have two actually, but one's for LordSmurf, he's replacing his ATI cards - you can stop PM-ing me now smurfie, you can have it for $150) and a 30gb external HDD in a external case which has either USB2.0 or Firewire.

I bought a PCMCIA 2-port firewire card from ebay which works fine, therefore intended to plug the ADVC-100 into one of the ports and the firewire drive into the other.

I installed Pinnacle Studio 8.10 as my capture software and ran a set of composite leads directly from my satellite reciever to the ADVC-100.

My first test was horrendous.
Using Studio, I set the drive to capture as the external firewire drive and the ThinkPad froze, so I rebooted.

The second test did the same.

The third test did eventually start to capture (I think the delay was around sixty seconds rather than the usual one second I'm used to) but once capturing I was losing around twenty frames for every forty captured!

The next test was simply to capture to my primary drive on the ThinkPad, but Studio reported this drive wasn't fast enough therefore that's where that test ended!

I then changed the configuration slightly and installed the external HDD as a USB device, rather than as firewire but my ThinkPad reported there was 'a high speed hub installed in a non-high speed port' (or some bloody thing/words to that effect). I deduced from this I couldn't run the USB HDD as USB2.0, and from the resultant test, as expected, the frame loss was huge.

Thinking that Studio was labour intensive I downloaded DVIO from this very site and configured it to capture to the external HDD, this time re-configured as a firewire drive.

The first test produced another freeze and reboot, the second test produced massive frames loss.

Having tried numerous tests I've concluded that as the ADVC-100 and external firewire HDD are connected to the ThinkPad via the same PCMCIA firewire card this is the root of my problems.
Thinking about it, expecting a P3-1ghz processor to receive a digital source (from the ADVC-100) and then output it back through the same device it came in through without expecting problems was a little optimistic, although saying that I learnt from posting this issue in the computer forum that the data rate for firewire is 400mb/sec so there shouldn't have been any problems.

As a last resort I tried a capture using DVIO but this time directly to my primary drive on the ThinkPad, and thankfully captured around ten minutes with absolutely no frame loss whatsoever.

Some good news in the face of all this mess

Unfortunately to carry on with my plans I need at least 13gb of space on my ThinkPad (60 minutes of DV) but even having stripped off everything but the bare essentials I can still only muster 12gb

I really would have like to have captured to the external HDD.

If anyone has any thoughts as to my problems, a workaround or anything I haven't mentioned or tried; I'd be pleased to hear it.



Thanks,
Will Hay

[Foz]

Will, If I used this Dvio to capture with can I still edit these captures in Pinnacle? I'm dropping frames capturing DV to 1394 card with Pinnacle. Also I've made this post on another forum maybe you can help answer.
I recently installed a IEEE 1394 card for purpose of capturing DV video. Why does this 1394 card show up as bridge in my LAN and internet connections? Foz

[The village idiot]

First suggestion... un-install the pinnacle software, including scouring the registration to eliminate all traces of the software. Treat it like the virus that it is . Then re-install all of your directX components, and make sure they go into the proper places , pinnacle moved a bunch of stuff on one of my machines and things like DVio didn't work properly after the pinnacle install . You may need to format the laptop and start from scratch!

Then try with the external hard drive again. If it still doesn't work, try looping the ADVC off the harddrive, so it goes laptop to harddrive, then hardrive to ADVC. If the drive doesn't loop, maybe loop the drive off of the ADVC.

Now the last part.... It is possible that the ADVC does not like the chip in the hard drive enclosure. My Razzle does this, and forces me to use an inferior enclosure to be able to work. The one that works is a Genesis Logic, but it doesn't run at full speed, and no firmware updates to be found for that box.

In all reality, you should be able to "capture" with preview on your machine, but I would use something different from that pinnacle "software". Try something like DVapp or Amcap if you need preview.

[redwudz]

Will, I tried the same thing a month ago. I have a HPZE4101 laptop. Sad to say, exactly same results. No proplem capturing through a cheap Firewire card to the internal drive. But the laptop only has USB1 onboard. I tried running an external HD (In a Firewire/USB2 combo box) off the Firewire port at the same time - massive dropped frames. If only my USB2 cardbus card would go in the second slot with the Firewire at the same time, but not enough room. The onboard USB1 is too slow. I took this setup to my PC and that firewire card easily handled both devices. I concluded it was my cheap Firewire card and not the settup. My laptop Firewire card works for other devices good enough, so no real reason to replace it. Maybe someone out there with a onboard USB2 could try this, or expirement with a different Firewire card and see if it can work. My PC is my primary capture setup, so I don't need the laptop to work anyway. PS: My Firewire Cardbus card is a Addonics. Can't find the model number.

[Gazorgan]

You assume your firewire card works. It does not. Do you know what the maximum throughput of a PCMCIA slot is? A single slot PCMCIA card isn't capable of capture. Hell, you can't do 100 Mbps ethernet with a single slot card (yeah I know they sell cards, but read the specs, it's usually 50 mbps 1/2 duplex).

Double slot or embedded Firewaire ports only. Same applies to USB 2.0 cards. It's generally not possible to capture with a laptop (do we have to talk about 4500 rpm 2.5 inch drives too?)

[vitualis]

They don't make Firewire 16-bit PC-Card devices.

It would be a CardBus Firewire card and CardBus is FAST -- it should be able to handle the full bandwidth of Firewire with no problems...

http://www4.tomshardware.com/network/20011210/nic-03.html

However, Will's problem is probably because he's trying to stream a lot of data TO AND FROM the card...

DV source --> Firewire Port1 --> CardBus --> PC --> CardBus --> Firewire Port2.

The CardBus devices "should" theoretically be able to handle the bandwidth but with the actual design of the card +/- how good various drivers are, obviously there is a problem.

I don't see any solution with your current set-up except to consider investing in a higher capacity internal HDD for your laptop.

Regards.

[Will Hay]

I don't see any solution with your current set-up except to consider investing in a higher capacity internal HDD for your laptop.

Righto, thanks.
Probably a route I'll investigate.
One thing, are 2.5" HDD's generic, or do I need an IBM brand for my ThinkPad?

Will, If I used this Dvio to capture with can I still edit these captures in Pinnacle? I'm dropping frames capturing DV to 1394 card with Pinnacle.

Yes.
DV is DV.
If the end result is I have to use DVIO on the rare occasions I plan to use my laptop for capture) once I transfer to my desktop all my editing will be done with Studio.
With regards your network issue, I see from your other post you seem to have it resolved

....do we have to talk about 4500 rpm 2.5 inch drives too?

Thank you for your input
....but, if that's an issue how do you explain the fact that I can capture successfully using DVIO to my ThinkPad HDD with zero frame loss?

First suggestion... un-install the pinnacle software, including scouring the registration to eliminate all traces of the software. Treat it like the virus that it is

I happen to be a big fan!

Then try with the external hard drive again. If it still doesn't work, try looping the ADVC off the harddrive, so it goes laptop to harddrive, then hardrive to ADVC. If the drive doesn't loop, maybe loop the drive off of the ADVC.

I wish this was possible, and therefore an option I could try, but I can't.
The manual clearly states you can't capture directly to an external firewire HDD, the ADVC-100 must go through a computer first.
I don't actually need preview, so DVIO is going to be fine for my needs.

I would just like the option of using the external firewire drive but as I mentioned (and shared by virtualis), I believe the input and simultaneous output through the PCMCIA firewire card to be the flaw
Will

[Gazorgan]

Hehehehehe.

I recently bought 4 dell laptops. Only 1 of 6 models comes with USB2.0 ports. None of the 10 Dell workstation purchased last year have USB 2.0 slots (all 1.1). Never assume it's there just because the technology is available......

[The village idiot]

Funny, a much slower setup works great for me. I do this all the time with my Toshiba Portege 3010 with pentium 266Mhz processor, win2000 DX8.1a or 8.1b. It didn't work too well at first, I had the DV device in one port, and then the drive on the second port of a cheap ass CompUSA brand cardbus firewire card (uses the VIA chipset), lots of problems. Then I looped the DV device off of the drive enclosure's second port and life has been good! I have "captured tens of hours of DV this way, while at my last job (had good sources there ). The only thing was that I had to use DVio because the processor isn't fast enough for preview. The CPU is only working at about 25% during capture with this exact system!

On another system (The Bungholio PVR machine) I was able to grab DV to local/external drives with no problem... until I loaded the pinnacle software for the Bungee DVD device. Then DV "capture" was gone! Lots of dropped frames, sometimes DVio wouldn't even capture anything. Wiped the drive and install windoze again, everything worked like a charm, installed pinnacle again, what was working stopped. Now that machine is strictly a PVR, as it won't do other things properly unless I kill all the pinnacle software.

Don't know what to tell you, my laptop works great for me.

[vitualis]

HDDs are generic. You shouldn't need an IBM branded one.

Regards.

[Will Hay]

You shouldn't need an....

Okay thanks.

Thanks to all



Will Hay

[The village idiot]

For laptops there are 2 sizes. Something like 9.5mm and 12.5mm. Find out which one you need before purchase! The 12.5mm seems to be the most common.

[Will Hay]

For laptops there are 2 sizes. Something like 9.5mm and 12.5mm. Find out which one you need before purchase! The 12.5mm seems to be the most common.

That would be the depth/thickness of the thing, right?
Thanks for the tip.
Will

[lordsmurf]

I also have a Canopus ADVC-100 (I have two actually, but one's for LordSmurf, he's replacing his ATI cards - you can stop PM-ing me now smurfie, you can have it for $150)

That made me do a double-take. :P
I can only imagine all the crazy rumors that would start.

If I ever add a new card, it will be a Matrox RT2500. In the future, I want to do more than either the ATI AIW or Canopus ADVC could ever do (even combined).

[Foz]

Finally got my frame dropping cured. I had 359 files in my IE
favorites, I copied this favorite folder to 2nd HDD, and deleted the
favorites in IE down to 63 files. I captured two 30 minute DV tapes without
dropping a frame. Thanks to all. Fozj

[Will Hay]

Finally got my frame dropping cured. I had 359 files in my IE
favorites, I copied this favorite folder to 2nd HDD, and deleted the
favorites in IE down to 63 files. I captured two 30 minute DV tapes without
dropping a frame. Thanks to all. Fozj

I've seen this somewhere before!
Will