How to convert non-NTSC MPEG files to NTSC ?

Hi all,

I live in Brazil, the broadcast color format here is PAL-M, which is very similar to NTSC (both are 60 Hz);
But at the end THESE ARE DIFERENT.

Ulead Video Studio 7 recognizes the PAL-M setting and I can capture properly, so after real-time encoding I have a PAL-M MPEG-2 file at my HD.
But how to convert that properly to NTSC compliant format ?

I have tested 3 methods :

1) Separate streams and load the m2v file direct in TMPGEnc;

2) Run DVD2AVI, let it frameserve the original MPEG and load the d2v file in TMPGEnc;

3) Again run DVD2AVI, but then use Xenedi's AVSynth "PAL to NTSC" script available at the DVDRhelp site. So, instead of loading the d2v file at TMPGEnc, I load the AVS file.

At least this last method should definitely convert the file, but in all 3 cases I get the same problem, bad looking final video, diagonal lines and not very well defined colors;
Actually, I DO believe that the final file is a NTSC one, but the quality of the conversion doesn't seem to be OK;

Does anyone have ideas ?

Thanks !

[erratic]

What are the resolution and framerate of PAL-M?
Is it the same as PAL-60?

Resolution 720x480 max.
Framerate 29.97 fps.

In that case your PAL-M files should be NTSC compliant already. I'm sure that would be the case for AVI files. I don't know if there's a special flag in MPEG-2 files.

[FulciLives]

Hi all,

I live in Brazil, the broadcast color format here is PAL-M, which is very similar to NTSC (both are 60 Hz);
But at the end THESE ARE DIFERENT.

Ulead Video Studio 7 recognizes the PAL-M setting and I can capture properly, so after real-time encoding I have a PAL-M MPEG-2 file at my HD.
But how to convert that properly to NTSC compliant format ?

I have tested 3 methods :

1) Separate streams and load the m2v file direct in TMPGEnc;

2) Run DVD2AVI, let it frameserve the original MPEG and load the d2v file in TMPGEnc;

3) Again run DVD2AVI, but then use Xenedi's AVSynth "PAL to NTSC" script available at the DVDRhelp site. So, instead of loading the d2v file at TMPGEnc, I load the AVS file.

At least this last method should definitely convert the file, but in all 3 cases I get the same problem, bad looking final video, diagonal lines and not very well defined colors;
Actually, I DO believe that the final file is a NTSC one, but the quality of the conversion doesn't seem to be OK;

Does anyone have ideas ?

Thanks !

I have found that Xesdeeni's method (which uses the AviSynth AVS script with the SmoothDeinterlacer plug-in) works extremely well.

Please note that it will look a bit "odd" on a computer since it is INTERLACED and a computer monitor is PROGRESSIVE. Even using WinDVD or PowerDVD to play it back will produce some interlaced artifacts.

However it looks absolutely fine on a normal regular interlaced NTSC TV

This is assuming you are doing it correctly

Also I've used it with UK, Dutch and Italian DVD discs as source material but I don't know much about PAL-M in Brazil SO I don't know if there is a difference or not. Assuming PAL-M is 720x576 with a frame rate of 25fps then I can't see how there is a big difference to it VS other PAL formats.

Also please note that NTSC color is not as good as PAL color and the converted NTSC will only look "proper" if you are watching it on a true NTSC TV (or a multi-system TV that can display NTSC without conversion).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[erratic]

According to this Web page PAL-M is a weird hybrid standard, which has the same resolution as NTSC has, but uses PAL transmission and color coding technology anyway.

[erratic]

Even better information here.

PAL-M is used exclusively in Brazil, and is a hybrid of NTSC and PAL. PAL-M uses the same scanlines, frequency, and frame rate as NTSC, but uses a PAL color pallette.

[FulciLives]

Even better information here.

PAL-M is used exclusively in Brazil, and is a hybrid of NTSC and PAL. PAL-M uses the same scanlines, frequency, and frame rate as NTSC, but uses a PAL color pallette.

Then it should convert to NTSC rather easily I would think using the TMPGEnc NTSC DVD template?

I mean if the resolution and frame rate is the same then there shouldn't be much too it ... I guess?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[erratic]

There's nothing to convert, I think. He already has a PAL-M MPEG-2 file. It should have the same properties as an NTSC MPEG-2 file. If he has to re-encode it for some reason, TMPGEnc's NTSC template should be just fine.

Dear Erratic and Fulcilives,

Thanks for your attention,

Yes, Erratic is correct, I don't have much knowledge but I know for sure that PAL-M is VERY SIMILAR to NTSC - 60 Hz, 720 X 480, 29,97 fps.

Actually, when I have the "raw" captured MPEG-2 PAL-M file at my HD, and ask Ulead Video Studio to show its properties, it says it's a NTSC file;

So, initially I think I wouldn't need any conversion....but.....although broadcast quality is awesome, the resulting DVD looks bad on TV - I don't watch on PC, Fulcilives
I always burn on DVD-RW media to test on stand alone PIONEER player.
My TV is fully NTSC compatible - as all Brazilian TV's.

There are horrible diagonal lines and color isn't stable, everything runs OK when I transfer a genuine NTSC VHS tape, so I am sure it's an issue related to MPEG files I get from TV broadcast,

As additional information, let me say that if I load the mPEG file (with muxed in audio) at TMPGEnc it crashes, if I demux and load onlly the m2v file it works and seems to create a NTSC compliant file, but it looks bad.

If I load the original "raw" PAL-M MPEG file at DVCditPE, it accepts it as a NTSC file, so you both seem correct (although I am not 100% sure...) that maybe I might not need any conversion at all, but why does the video on TV looks bad and when I encode a native NTSC file it's OK ?

I believe that TMPGEnc is indeed converting the file, but its quality sucks...

Thanks for any additional info,

Andre

[erratic]

I'm not sure what the problem is, but you should capture a PAL-M AVI file and encode it to NTSC MPEG-2. Test it with a small AVI file. You wrote that you use real-time MPEG-2 encoding and then you re-encode. I would capture to AVI format (MJPEG, or if you've got the disk space for it: Huffyuv) and convert the AVI file to MPEG-2 to see if that improves the quality.

Yes, I have the HuffYUV codec, I'll make a test and tell you both how it goes,

Thanks,

Later,

ANDRE

Oh no ! Here I am stuck with this problem again, EVEN choosing the HuffYUV codec at UVS7 option, I get 1,17 GB per minute of video, annoying !
It seems it isn't making any compression..

It was supposed to be 350 MB or so per minute....I've had this problem before, any guess ?

Thanks !

Andre

[erratic]

Try another capture program. Virtual VCR is free. PICVideo MJPEG is an excellent codec if you want smaller AVI files.

Hi erratic and fulcilives,

Thanks for the tips, actually, I realized that Ulead Video Studio doesn't load any of the Video Codecs, I have HuffYUV and MJPEG, whatever I choose I get the same : 1.17 GB per minute of AVI, that's the size of uncompressed video;

I'll ask help at the Ulead Forum,

On the oter hand, tonight I'll make more MPEG-2 PAL-M tests, now capturing from another channel and even from VHS tapes, maybe the issue is related to that specific channel I have been trying, although I must say it's the best quality broadcast among all,

I'll post more later,

Thanks,

Andre

Hi again Erratic and Fulcilives,

I've realized the problem I have was related to a problem on an specific channel broadcast, I recorded from other channels and the captured files looks goog;

Weirdly, I think I am making a PAL-M DVD and both DVDitPE and my DVD player have been fooled thinking it's NTSC, but at the end I think it's truly a PAL-M DVD (?);

As my TV gets both system and PAL-M is also 29.97 fps, 720 X 480 and 60 Hz, all sw's tells me it's NTSC, but I don't think so....maybe (probably) playing it on an USA TV would come up in Black and White.
I really wonder what are the true diferences between PAL-M and NTSC, all I know is that if I send VHS tapes to friends in USA they say it's B&W, same on the opposite way;

Well, it's OK anyway, thanks !

Andre

Hi again,

I've made a Web research and found out the real diferences between PAL-M and NTSC :

NTSC / PAL-M

Number of lines 525 / 525 *


Frames per second 29.97 / 29.97 *


Vertical Frequency 60Hz / 60Hz *


Horizontal Frequency 15.734Khz / 15.734Khz


Color signal modulation Subcarrier deleted with quadrature modulation for both systems


Color subcarrier frequency 3.579545 / 3.575611


Burst color syncronism Fixed phase / Phase inversion line to line


Video bandwidth 4.2Mhz / 4.2Mhz


Audio carrier 4.5Mhz (FM) / 4.5Mhz




* I think that sw's like TMPGEnc Plus only look at these, so they don't make the conversion


As one can see, the diferences are minimum, I wonder, is there any software that should look at these diferences and convert a PAL-M Mpeg file to NTSC ?

Should it be necessary to write an specifically AVSynth script ?

Thanks,

Andre