Programers - Advice Please

[leebo]

Would those who know a bit about programming kindly give advice as to how to start learning about it?

I'm a pre-newbie in this area and need direction as to where to begin. I realize there are different types of programming languages, but don't have a clue where to start.

What is a good language to start out with? Is there a programming guide for dummies?

Is there a relatively easy language to start out with before moving on to more complex stuff?

Are there web sites or on-line educational forums? (I did a web search but only found ad's for on-line schools).


Thanks.

[stiltman]

All depends on what you want to program.


VB6 is pretty easy to start out as a newbie with, and there's plenty of information on the net about it.

C is more versitile and has a slightly steeper learning curve, but it to has plenty of resources on the net

C++ is great

Then you have the net languages J++ # ...etc

[leebo]

Gracias!

So VB6 to get my feet wet, and C++ to create anything useful?
I appriciate the advice.

[EddyH]

Apparently you should never ever start with any form of Basic if you want to be a serious programmer, as it spoils you somehow... try hitting C++ first and seeing how you get on.

(probably why i'm crap at it - experience runs Sinclair Basic - Atari FaSTbasic and STOS - Quickbasic - one short, terrifying flick through a book aimed at 'painless' conversion from Basic to C.. all... those... parentheses... and cryptic words... )

[i_am_dave]

I agree, if you can get a copy of Visual C++ and get a copy of the Inside Visual C++ book, you will be off to a good start.

Good Luck!

[leebo]

Thanks everyone.

[Conquest10]

yeah. visual basic will ruin you. everything is just point and click.

[stiltman]

yeah. visual basic will ruin you. everything is just point and click.

Slam it all ya want, it got me through a bunch.....

[sterno]

There's nothing wrong with basic, it's all a matter of how you use it to learn. You just have to watch for the things that should and shouldn't be carried over when you learn a new language. That said, Visual Basic is probably a bad choice for starting out. I have very rarely met somebody who was genuinely skilled in any other language who started with VB. It's not impossible, it just doesn't seem to happen very often.

Pascal used to be the language that every school taught, but it really doesn't teach you anything you wouldn't learn with C and it's a whole lot less useful. C (and C++) may not be the best language for learning proper structured programming and Comp. Sci. theory, but it has the advantage of being pretty much everywhere. I've lost count of how many programming/scripting languages I've seen that have a syntax based on C.

I've heard people say that Python actually works well as a language for getting started, but it does have some truly braindead syntax that you'll have to un-learn when you move on. Perl can be good, but it's really easy to write bad code without knowing it. Scheme is a good language for learning programming concepts, but it's not widely used and the syntax is completely different from most other languages (and it's hard to find a good book on it).

Whatever you end up starting with, don't stop there. Learn 3 or 4 different languages. After you learn a few, almost every language looks the same as what you already know and you'll be able to use one you've never seen before in just a day or two.

[leebo]

My head is spinning now!!!

OK, so say I start with C.
Is C easier than C++ (because it has no ++'s)? I mean, I am a per-newbie.

And beginner book recommendations?

[sterno]

If you're looking for definite answers, there aren't any. Most CS programs in colleges around the US today seem to start people off in C, C++, or Java, but if you look at enough schools you'll find a dozen other languages used for introductory programming. And 90% of fresh CS graduates are still useless, so obviously none of those places have figured out the magic formula.

C++ is C with extensions for object-oriented programming. I'd suggest starting with C so that you don't get bogged down in the extra syntax and the illogical, inconsistent way some things are done in C++ (because of its hybrid nature and its origin as a set of extensions). Since 99% of C also works in C++ you can then explore object-oriented programming using C++ and you'll only have to learn a little more syntax (Java is also extremely similar, but you'll have a little more to learn if you take that route). In general, a C++ compiler will compile C just fine, so if you get set up with a C++ compiler you like you'll be in good shape.

I haven't found very many good books, but I learn best by doing, not by reading. I usually steer clear of books that are tied to one particular compiler because it seems like a lot of those do a good job of explaining how to use the compiler but a terrible job as a language reference. Since I don't use the Borland or Microsoft compilers I don't have much use for 400-page books about them.

[i_am_dave]

leebo,

Is it an option for you to take some classes at a university? A couple of Freshman CS courses would really get you going in the right direction in a hurry. In addition to learning the mechanics and syntax of a new language, you will also learn how to break down problems and how to structure code to simplify writing and to help maintain it.

just a thought...

[torisdad]

Any particular platform in mind?

If it's a MS Windows then you might consider one of the .NET languages. They're all pretty much the same now - just a different facades on the underlying execution environment. You'll certainly enjoy the instant gratification.

If it's Unix then how about Java?

I'd pick one of these languages to start with because they let you focus on the programming concept at hand.

You can move on to C or C++ when you're happy with your first choice but I doubt you'll want to!

Good luck. And remember - it's just typing!

[leebo]

Eventually I'd like to write something for Windows platforms, but initially I'm thinking of a mini app for my Nokia cell phone. It uses the Symbian OS.

I read something about writing in C or C++ and using a "compiler" (?) to port it to Symbian.

Even if I simply get a better idea of whats involved in writing programs, that will be good.

[Faustus]

Heres what my programmer friend (right over my sholdere currently) says.

Visual Basic is fine, but be prepaired to find lots of things you cant do with it.

C++ is great, its very powerful, but requires alot more work and has a very large learning Curve.

DO NOT learn C if you want to move on to C++ as they are some small differences that are hard to unlearn.

Jump into C++ first if you feel you can handle is, if not then try Visual Basic.

[Solarjetman]

DO NOT learn C if you want to move on to C++ as they are some small differences that are hard to unlearn.

I agree. C and C++ have many differences.

This is the order I learned to program in....

True BASIC (not that hand-holding visual stuff )
Pascal
C++
Java
C
Assembly (many versions) <-- fun,fun,fun
VHDL <-- not for computer programs but hardware design

Like I mentioned above, I LOVE to program in Assembly, but it is not very useful in the real world except in microcontrollers and drivers. It's meant for short super-efficient programs.

I would not use ANY visual/point-n-click tools until you learn how a program functions (global/local variables, loops, functions, re-iteration, object oriented programming, etc..) You'll only be a mediocre programmer if you don't understand the basics of what is happening. What I mean is for example: if the compiler has a pre-built module to alphabetize a list, don't use it until you have built your own at least once.
Just so you know how it works.

[leebo]

Thanks flaystus and Solarjetman, that helps a lot.

[Baldrick]

PHP...you don't need anything else...

This is the order that I learned programming (most in schoool and university)

Pascal
C
Assembly (We made a minicalculator for a motorola 68000 processor)
Java
C++

[sterno]

PHP...you don't need anything else...

PHP is cool, but I really couldn't live without perl.

Guess I'll toss out the order I learned stuff....

• BASIC (old-style, with line numbers)
• Assembly (Motorola 6502, converted to hex code and entered by hand)
• Pascal (school)
• C
• BASIC (new-style, with structure instead of line numbers)
• MOO
• C++ (school)
• Misc. UNIX shell scripting
• Perl
• PHP
• Assembly (MIPS, in school - so much easier than 6502)
• Scheme/Lisp
• Tcl/Tk

... plus quite a few others along the way that I didn't work with enough to count them (or just don't want to admit to having used). More recently I've had some exposure to COBOL and Java, but I've made every effort to block out the horror of both.

[subclubkid]

I started with GW-BASIC, hell I didnt even know I was programming. I was just making games and stuff like that. I got out of computers for a while and about a year ago got back into them. I'm in school right now for Computer Programming, but havent started any fun classes yet that actually cover anything good. So I have been messing with stuff in my spare time, and I picked up Q-basic to head back to my roots, and today I ordered Borland C++ Pro through my school, going to pay only $99 for it, which is crazy cause its a $1100 package, gotta love the academic prices.

I downloaded Python a couple of days and have messed with it alittle and a book on programming I picked up had a copy of Liberty Basic in it, I know that learning on stuff like that wont really teach you much but I figured it would be fun to do.

So my C++ should be here in a week or so, so then I guess its time to take a crack at it. I've already aqquired about 13 books on it.