DV CAPTURE HELL

[bachelor]

I have been having a hell of a time trying to capture from my DV cam via firewire. I am able to capture, but I either get hella dropped frames (ex. 10 dropped frames per 5 secs. of capturing; this was with Premiere 6.0), or I get no dropped frames, but it plays very choppy and crackles (more so with the audio than the video;this was with AVI_IO).

Capture Setting (AVI_IO):

29.97 fps
720 x 480
Detect signaldrop after # of drops: 20 (also tried 0)
Audio settings:
Record Audio setting
File settings:
Max file size in MB: 2048 (was only capturing 100MB for test)
Audiointerleave in millsec: 500
"Align to disc sector" selected


I am new at this, so bear with me. I have read many posts trying to find the answer to my problems, but to no avail. I have already defragged my HD, so that is not the problem.

When I first installed one of the cature programs that I have been using, I believe it was VirtualDub (which, I later found out on this forum, does not capture dv audio), it stated that the codecs that I had installed (it claimed they were hacked codecs; not sure if they are or not; got them from KaZaA's unofficial support website) would prevent me from capturing correctly, or playing correctly (don't remember which)...namely, the AngelPotion codec, and another one which I can not remember.

Is this true? Can a codec mess things up when it comes to capturing?

Also, with respect to DMA, I don't really know what that is, but I followed the directions in one of the posts to set my HD to DMA. However, when I went to the device manager (I have Win2k), clicked on the plus sign next to "IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers", and then went to the properties of the "Primary IDE Channel", here is what I found.

Under the "Advanced Setting" tab, the settings were as follows:
-------
Device 0

Device Type: Auto Detection (grayed out)
Transfer Mode: DMA if available (only other selection available was "PIO only&quot
Current Transfer Mode: PIO Mode (grayed out)

Device 1

Device Type: Auto Detection (grayed out)
Transfer Mode: DMA if available (only other selection was same as above (PIO only))
Current Transfer Mode: Ultra DMA Mode
-------

So, I don't know if that is OK or not.

Here are my computer specs (again, running Win2k):

(it was a Compaq Presario 5838 with a 17gig HD running Win98, but I bought a 40gig HD, installed Win2K on it with the NTFS file system, and set the 17gig HD with Win98 still on it as my slave (however, can't double boot because of the NTFS on the master drive))


AMD K7 Athlon 500 MHz with enhanced 3DNow! Technology
384MB RAM (128MB + 256MB chip)
Primary Drive - Western Digital 40 gig 7200RPM (Ultra DMA)
Slave Drive - Western Digital 17 gig 5400RPM (Ultra DMA)
3dfx Voodoo3-1000 2X AGP 3D Graphics Card
16 MB SyncGRAM video memory
Laser-sharp MPEG2 video playback (hardware)
128-bit hardware-accelerated 3D graphics
Sound Blaster 128 Voice PCI Audio
Aureal A3D TM Interactive 360° Positional Sound
FM Synthesis
2 Firewire ports (one in front, one in back; came with computer; not sure of the capture card)

DV Camcorder

Panasonic PV-DV 400


A while back, I tried capturing with the Hollywood Bridge, and I got the same result. But, I read on one of the boxes of another Dazzle product that some products did not work with the Athlon processor. So, I returned it.

Anyway, sorry for such a long post, but I am trying to avoid the back and forth of posts by giving as much info as I can.

Thanx for your time.

[k5oz]

Try scenalyzerLive and see if it performs for you. They have a demo at http://www.scenalyzer.com/

k5oz, dave

[bachelor]

k5oz,

Thanx for the info. I just tried Scenalyzer, however, I did not have any luck. It is still choppy during playback with both video and audio. Is it because I am playing back the captured clip with Windows Media Player 6.4? It also slows down the computer during playback as if it is taking up a lot of system resources just to play it back (even though I have the max amount of RAM that my computer can have, 384MB). Granted, it is a file that is 235MB in size, but that shouldn't matter, as I have been able to play movies that are 750MB in size with that player.

Any other advice...anyone?

[ktnwin]

I have captured successfully with a Pentium II-266 Mhz with only 64MB memory (Win98 SE) without any drop frames for 6 months.

I do not know whether Athlon 500 Mhz is sufficient to run W2K, it's sure more than enough for Win98SE

I upgraded my system to Athlon 1.2GHz, 256MB & W2K pro. 2 months ago. This is mainly to speed up video editing, rendering and encoding.

DV capture only requires less than 4MB/sec transfer from the HDD. Today's HDD perform ways better than that (even in PIO mode).

Regarding DMA settings for HDD, Win2K does that automatically, I could not find that in the setting either.
However, I use Studio DV software for capture, it does measure the HDD transfer speed and let you know how fast the HDD is.

One thing you can do is to remove all unnecessary drivers, resident software to free up the CPU for capturing. Drop frames can be caused by some software or drivers taking away CPU time. Your system must have been loaded with lots of drivers for fancy hardware.

In W2K, WMP seems to use lot of system resource too for playback. I have seen that in action and sometimes it cannot play the video clip, nothing is shown on the screen as if WMP did not even start and yet, it taxes system resource. Make sure you close WMP (by CTRL-ALT-DEL then chedk the task manager) before starting capture.

DV capture should always be the simplest and the best method.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ktnwin on 2001-09-26 16:25:32 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ktnwin on 2001-09-26 16:29:35 ]</font>

[Tommy]

I suspect its not your computer speed. I think an athlon 500 should be able to run win2k. Did premere come with the firewire card? If not have you tried the program that came with the firewire card. I don't think it should matter but then i dont' know what card you have either. Could you capture when you were in windows98? If so it could be win2k is not playing well with the firewire card or capture program.

[bachelor]

Thanx for the input. I have tried many things, including taking out my 128MB RAM chip that came with the computer (leaving 256MB RAM), as I have always suspected it of having some RAM leakage, but still no luck. I even booted up with Win98 thinking that since the firewire card (made by Texas Intruments according to the Device Manager) and the dual firewire port (one in front, and one in back) came with the computer, that maybe my original harddrive would have the correct drivers/configurations to capture. Guess again! That actually made it worse, as, when I tried to capture, it stated that it was unable to load the "correct capture device". So, even though my computer was MADE for video capture, and came with the firecard, I unable to do just that.

I just got off the phone with Compaq tech support, and they stated that it is most likely a driver problem. I went to the Panasonic website, and looked for a driver for my PV-DV400, but I only saw drivers for the still photo option, not for video capture.

So, assuming it is a driver problem, does anyone know of any third party drivers that would allow me to capture video at the rate of speed of a firewire connection, or at least one that would work with my dv cam?

Appreciate any input.

[bachelor]

SUCCESS!! I finally figured it out! I went to the site of a software company that Panasonic suggests that one uses to capture/edit their video (getting a kickback are we? ), and I found a kool utility that allowed you to test the read/write speed of your hard drive (to see if it is compatible with their software). Just in case you are interested, I got it here:

http://www.justedit.com/pub/drivers/ezdvtest.exe

(just download it, install it into a temp directory, and run it)

I can't believe the results! The test results stated that my master hard drive, which is a Western Digital 40gig with 7200rpm, had a read speed of 3347KB/sec, and a write speed of 4106KB/sec! Then, when I tested my slave drive, a Western Digital 17gig with 5400rpm, it stated that it had both a read and write speed of 17MB/sec!!! What the hell is that about? I don't get it. How can a hard drive with a speed that is 25% slower, get a read/write speed that is over 400% faster?! Anyone know the answer to that one?

Is it because that is my slave drive which does not have the operating system on it? They both have about 16% of free space left, so it can't be because a lack of space. Really weird.

Anyway, I had AVI_IO capture the video to my slave drive, and it came out with killer quality!

Now, my next challenge is to convert this huge .avi file into several compressed streaming files. I guess I will try to convert them into RM (for Real Player) format. I am new at this, so I have no idea how to do it. If anyone has some pointers, I'd greatly appreciate it. I am now on my way to the "Conversion" section. Hopefully, there will be something about converting to streaming files.

Thanx for all of your help, guys!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bachelor on 2001-09-27 00:25:13 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bachelor on 2001-09-27 00:25:59 ]</font>

[omoses]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
I can't believe the results! The test results stated that my master hard drive, which is a Western Digital 40gig with 7200rpm, had a read speed of 3347KB/sec, and a write speed of 4106KB/sec! Then, when I tested my slave drive, a
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Start your Computer, and enter the BIOS-Setup. Just have a look if the WD 40GB-drive (I assume first IDE, Master) is configured as DMA-33/66/100 (whichever is possible) and you have the latest BIOS-revision. I had a similar problem, and it was an old BIOS and then false settings.

[bachelor]

Great advice! Could you tell me exactly how to get to the Bios when you startup, how to change it if necessary, and how to check/get the latest revision of it?

Thanx! Appreciate the help!

(running Win2k)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bachelor on 2001-09-27 01:22:16 ]</font>

[TOMMO]

OK,

The speed REA/WRITE test. I have DC30 Plus and it has a similar utility. If I run it on my 30 GB System drive I get a poor result.

if I test my slave it is much much faster.

That is why it recommended to use a seperate dedicated hard drive. This drive should be formatted, kept clean for captures, clips used, dumped then formatted again to achieve maximum efficiency.

[lin(o:]

I don't know about your mobo but mine will only allow me to set DMA for my HDD as "disabled" or "auto (enabled)". I also have WD for my slave drive and I was able to set it to run at UDMA100 using the disk utility that came with the drive called Data Lifeguard. If you bought your WD HDD as retail you should have it, if OEM I don't know if you can download it from their site.
If you do have it, here's what you need to do (although I'm not sure of the step-by-step because I'm at the office and the WD HDD is in my home computer but just to give you an idea):
1. Boot from the diskette that came with the drive.
2. Choose advanced options from the main menu.
3. There should be an option there to change the DMA mode.
4. You can select either DMA33, 66 or 100. You would like to select 100 since this is a new drive and I assume it supports DMA100.
5. Then you remove the disk from the drive and reboot.
6. Make sure that for your device 0 dma is enabled or auto in the BIOS.
7. When in windows, go to device manager and the PIO only mode that you have before should have changed to UDMA.
Hope this helps.
CIAO!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: lin(o: on 2001-09-28 13:49:00 ]</font>

[bachelor]

Kool. Thanx for the info. I would like to format my hard drive so that it's totally clean, but it still has Win98 on it, and for some reason, when I used a friend's Toshiba DVD-ROM drive (which I plan on buying soon) with PowerDVD software, I was only able to play the DVD's with Win98. When I tried it with Win2k, it gave me hella problems. It just wouldn't play no matter what resolution I put it at (change of resolution was the suggestion by the software to correct the problem I was having). If anyone knows the answer to that one, please...do tell...as I would like to be able to completely get rid of Win98.

However, 17MB/sec is more that fast enough to capture video, so I'm kool with that.

With respect to the DMA mode, thanx for enlightening me on the subjet, lin. Much appreciated. Unfortunately, I found out that my hard drive only supported up to ATA 66 (even though I bought it only 1 1/2 years ago!). But, I'm glad I found out about that, because when I followed your directions, I noticed that my 40gig was set at 100ATA. So I changed it to ATA66. My 5400rpm 17gig was set at 66, as that is the highest mode that it is capable of. So that drive was fine. And you're right, when I checked the mode of my 40 gig drive under device manager after I did that, it stated Ultra DMA Mode! Thanx! (my 17gig still said PIO, DMA when available)

However, I checked the speed after, and it was still the same speed (for both drives), but, it does seem to be running a bit smoother.

What I think I am going to do is install a controller card. That might help the speed a bit.

If anyone else has some tips on speeding up the data transfer rate of a drive, please post.

Thanx for the help.

[TOMMO]

Create a dual boot system on your Primary hard drive - Partition Magic might be a good choice for doing this. This way both operating systems are on the same drive.

This would let you have the benifits of both and a clean secondary drive. It is worth the effort.

[bachelor]

Thanx for the tip, and it's a good idea, but I don't think that I will be able to do that as I use the NTFS file system on my Primary drive (Win2k), and, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you have to have both the Win2K drive and the Win98 drive in FAT32 for a dual boot.

[Just G]

bachelor,
Just a couple of comments/suggestions.

Regarding your hard drives' performance
First, don't get hung up on the names "ATA-66" or "ATA-100". The ATA-66/100 designation is the bus's speed, not the drive's speed. As of now, there is no IDE/ATA/EIDE hard drive that has a sustained tranfer rate anywhere near 66MBps, let alone 100MBps. The newest and best top out somewhere around 45. An add-on controller card probably won't show you enough performance increase to warrant its purchase.

The main issue here is to have at least your capture drive running in DMA mode - not PIO - to save CPU usage.

Additionally, when you moved your 17GB drive from master to slave, did you change both drives' jumpers accordingly? Western Digital drives are factory shipped to be single drive masters. So, when you have two drives, not only do you need to change the 17GB drive to Dual (Slave), but also, you need to change the 40GB drive to Dual (Master). It is recommended by drive manufacturers to specify slave and master, rather than setting both or either to Cable Select.
Here's a WD link. Incorrect jumper settings may be causing the 40GB drive to be performing so relatively poorly.

Regarding dual-boot
If you want to dual-boot Win98 and Win2k, you don't need to have both on FAT32's completely. You simply might be able to edit your C:\boot.ini to add an entry for Win98. But, doing so may require more effort than it might be worth. Let me know.

Regarding PowerDVD
As for PowerDVD under Win2k, I have no problems. I tried the WinDVD trial but got blue screens when I closed it after playing larger files - around 700MB. I have a dual-CPU machine, however, and there are significantly more problems and quirks that arise which are video/audio related. So, I wouldn't put too much value on it - I think I just got lucky with it.

[bachelor]

Thanx for the info, Just G.

HD Performance

That's really odd as my bus's speed is supposed to be up to 200MHz, however, when I called Compaq, they stated that my motherboard was only capable of ATA66. Obviously, however, I don't take their word as the final one as I have corrected them many times. I will have to call back and ask again (even though I did have the rep go and confirm what he was telling me with his supervisor). It does, however, seem to be running a bit more smoothly (i.e. things are opening and closing quicker (not much, but a little)). Both drives are now set at ATA66. Not sure if it matters if both drives are running at the same bus speed, though.

However, there is something that I don't understand. When I go to Device Manager, and click on the Properties for the Primary IDE Channel (my Master 40gig drive), under Advanced Settings, it has two Devices (Device 0 and Device 1). Here are the settings for each:

Device 0

Device Type: Auto Detection
Transfer Mode: DMA if available
Current Transfer Mode: PIO Mode

Device 1

Device Type: Auto Detection
Transfer Mode: DMA if available
Current Transfer Mode: Ultra DMA Mode (was PIO; I changed it)

What is Device 0 and Device 1?

For my Slave drive (17gig), here are the settings (I didn't change any of them yet; might try to change to DMA mode per your suggestion, but don't think I'll be able to change both Device 0 and Device 1 based on my experience with my Master drive):

Device 0

Device Type: Auto Detection
Transfer Mode: DMA if available
Current Transfer Mode: PIO Mode

Device 1

Device Type: Auto Detection
Transfer Mode: DMA if available
Current Transfer Mode: PIO Mode

Again, I'll try changing the mode to DMA, but don't think I'll be able to do it for both devices. If you have any suggestions, let me know.

Dual Boot

Win2k allows you the option to dual boot, but in the instructions (from what I remember), it states that both have to be in FAT32. You may be right in being able to change the boot.ini file manually, but I wouldn't know how, nor do I think I would want to chance trying it. Like you said, probably not worth the effort.

PowerDVD

Well, it's good to know that someone has a DVD-ROM running under Win2k with PowerDVD. That's encouraging. What kind of DVD-ROM do you have? Make? Model? http://www.techbargains.com, which is a site that I regard highly, suggests that they had the best luck with Toshiba's DVD-ROM's. Maybe it was a driver issue. I really didn't get that involved as I was just borrowing it from a neighbor. However, I would eventually like to get a DVD-ROM working with Win2k so I can clear my 17hd, and make it my "capture drive."

WD HD Jumper Settings

Yes, I do have each one set for their respective role (slave and master). I got the settings from the WD website.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bachelor on 2001-09-30 20:32:47 ]</font>