mac for DVD creation - the wrong option?

[geek rock]

well, i have a flat-panel iMac, and i love it to bits.. but i can't help feeling that in the world of MPEG encoding the mac has very few options that compare to PC ones.

is there any software for OS X that comes even close to a program like TMPGENC on the PC? i've tried media cleaner, which seems to be the closest thing you can get to a mac version of TMPGENC, but it's painfully slow and still does not have half the features of TMPGENC.

i want to transfer mostly VHS tapes to DVD and i've seen some of the posts on this board saying about avisynth filters, tmpgenc filters, etc etc that can be used to improve the picture quality a lot. is there an OS X program or programs that will have these same features?

i would have thought that, with macs being "designed for video" that they would have more mpeg-encoding options than on PCs?

the only programs that i've come across are FFMPEGX and media cleaner. there must be more out there..

any ideas?

-Mark

[AntnyMD]

This isnt a helpful response, but if you have such a love for TMPEGEnc (which is a wonderful program), why did you get a Mac if TMPEGEnc is all you wanted?

TMPEGEnc produces great copies of video from bad sources for consumer-level creations ... I've used both TMPEGEnc and ffmpeg and the former beats the latter hands down.

HOWEVER, if you want complete ease of use for DVD to DVD, or best quality results from DV to DVD, a Mac is the only way to go.

Other threads have discussed the pro's and con's of both platforms, and each has its merits. If you want speed and intuitive ease of use with professional results, go Mac ... If you want to master the intricacies of GOP headers, maximum mux rates, why CDDA audio burps on VCDs or how to author in-sync SVCDs with PCM audio, a PC is the way to go -- because you'll be forced to learn way much more than you wanted to just put your damn VHS on a disc-based medium.

And now ... the answers to your question :::

[pants]

well compressor which somes with fcp or dsp is great. but you need to buy one of those aps to get it. vhs to dvd, you could also buy a instant dvd card from ads, or just buy a standalone dvd recorder. the panasonics are great and you can get one with a hard drive. cuts only editing, markers. if you look around online can one w/harddrive for about $550. or with no harddrive for $400. these are real time and depending on how many tapes you have this maybe a great option. cause to get compressor the cheapest way would be dsp 2.0, for $500. but to get the vhs into your mac you need somethign with analog ins, maybe you have a camera already or not, but the canopus advc box is great, but that's about another $200-350.

there is also bitvice www.innobits.se

[ZeroSix]

maybe someone just needs to port TMPEGENC to OS X.

[Cornucopia]

geek rock,

I know how you're feeling. I do A+V work and would have preferred to have kept our equipment Mac-centric, but when it comes to MPEG, Macs missed the boat and are now having to play catch up (and they still aren't there). Therefore, I do 90% of my multimedia/VCD/DVD work on PC's.

contrary to AntnyMD, I have gotten much faster DVD-->DVD conversions/xfers and much better quality DV-->DVD encodes than what is available stock on the Mac. It wasn't too long ago that there was a major Gamma problem with QT and Apple's DV codec, while much improved lately, still isn't as good as say, Canopus. Don't even talk about VCD 2.0/SVCD with menu's, etc.

Back to your main question--Encoders...
IIRC, these are your Mac choices:

• Cleaner
  Apple MPEG2/DVD Export (G4s only)
  ffmpegX (OSX only)
  Heuris Mpeg Power Pro DVD (still $$$)
  Astarte's Mpack (bought out by Apple, not really available, also So-so quality)
  Hardware cards like Wired/Sonic (both $$$ and harder to find)
  External boxes (don't allow for much choice, realtime, no VBR)

I know there may be a few others, but they may be based on one of these (like ffmpegX). None of the above match the combined quality and speed of PC options (TMPEnc, CCE, Mainconcept, certain hardware cards) except Heuris and the Mac Hardware options (all $$$).

--or--

What I would do, IIWY--for the short-term, get a copy of VPC and run TMPEGEnc on it (and anything else you want). That's actually one of the cool things about newer Macs, you can have both worlds on 1 box.

ZeroSix, I guess that "someone" would be TMPEGEnc's author Hori, cuz the program ain't open-source. Send him an email, he may already have something in the works (that would be sweet).

HTH,
Scott

[geek rock]

thanks for the reply, cornucopia.

maybe i should start up a petition for an OS X version of TMPGENC ?

like i said, though, it just baffles me that there aren't more MPEG encoding programs for OS X. though, as you said, apples are playing catch-up to PC's in this field. i would have thought it would be the other way round.. but there you go.

-Mark

[brett]

corn, you neglect to mention bitvice as an encoder. there is a "lite" version for a mere $56 which meets many people's needs. full version (batch, dvnc, three-pass in the near future) is $290. there have been user reports comparing the quality of bitvice favorably with the most expensive of windows encoders, such as cinema craft. bitvice is altivec enhanced and multithreaded. a single processor 800mhz g4 runs two-pass in the ballpark of two-pass windows encoders on a 1.5ghz p4. a dual processor machine runs bitvice quite a bit faster.

anyway, have a look: http://innobits.se

now, as for the total lack of an mpeg cutter on the mac side -- no, i still don't want to buy the ads instant usb to evaluate pixedv -- we might be in agreement. but that omission may be filled shortly as pixedv looks to be unbundled and sold as a stand alone product later this year, iirc.

brett.

[SIMPLE_THINGS]

i want to transfer mostly VHS tapes to DVD and i've seen some of the posts on this board saying about avisynth filters, tmpgenc filters, etc etc that can be used to improve the picture quality a lot. is there an OS X program or programs that will have these same features?
-Mark

For Vhs backup on DVD I use Innobits Bitvice and its DVNC filter (a sort of temporal noise reduction that kick-ass Tmpeg and its filters!). Try it...

[Cornucopia]

brett,

BitVice is OSX and G4 required right? sorry I missed that one, but haven't seen any thorough, scientific (and hopefully unbiased) reviews of it to speak of.

Scott


>>>>>>>>>>>>
Later edit
>>>>>>>>>>>>

Whoa! I stand corrected. Looked at their website. They've got versions that are OS9 and G3 capable as well as OSX and G4! Good for them (and us)! Course, I'd still like to see a "TMPEGEnc X".

[bilestyle]

corn, you neglect to mention bitvice as an encoder. there is a "lite" version for a mere $56 which meets many people's needs. full version (batch, dvnc, three-pass in the near future) is $290. there have been user reports comparing the quality of bitvice favorably with the most expensive of windows encoders, such as cinema craft. bitvice is altivec enhanced and multithreaded. a single processor 800mhz g4 runs two-pass in the ballpark of two-pass windows encoders on a 1.5ghz p4. a dual processor machine runs bitvice quite a bit faster.

anyway, have a look: http://innobits.se

now, as for the total lack of an mpeg cutter on the mac side -- no, i still don't want to buy the ads instant usb to evaluate pixedv -- we might be in agreement. but that omission may be filled shortly as pixedv looks to be unbundled and sold as a stand alone product later this year, iirc.

brett.

im not even going to reply based on everyones ignorance in thinking macs are far behind ... but i will respond about pixeldv.. its an excellent cutting tool for mpegs generated with the ADS instant DVD... okay now the biggest problem i've found with this setup is that the mpeg-2 isnt svcd ready even if you use all the necessary SVCd settings when capturing.. but if you use mpeg that is svcd ready that you did not create with the ADS and cut it up in the editor it will work fine... as far as an mpeg editor it is PHENOMENAL... it really is the mpeg splitter that everyone has always wanted but we never had.

i cant BELIEVE people complain about speeds of our encoders yet will deal with how slow the overly hyped tmpeg2enc goes in VPC... that is just the flat out most retarded thing i've EVER heard... im just gonna stop because the more i think of how assinine that is the angrier i get.

[Cornucopia]

bilestyle,

nobody ever said anything about how speedy TMPEGEnc-on-VPC was. Hell, anything on any emulator is still going to slow down to a snail's pace. But it IS an option that can get you some high quality and LOW COST encoders.

I have done a number of head-to-head comparisons using BetaSP and DVCam source material with TMPEGEnc, CCE, Ligos, CanopusMPEG, AstarteMpack, Apple's MPEG2, Heuris, and Cleaner (both Mac & PC) and can easily say that of the inexpensive encoders (<$600US), TMPEGEnc was easily the combined quality+speed winner. Sorry to make you angry, but it's the truth. I'd post the samples, but I don't have a couple of GB worth of ftp space.

Scott

[brett]

bile -- i know about pixedv and totally want it -- i just wish i could buy it without paying $230 for the whole ads usb instant mpeg thing -- anyway i have seen a japanese iteration but couldn't make heads or tails of it.

something i have been able to make heads (but not tails) out of is a proggy called "capty mpeg edit" ("CME"). here's a screenie:



this is a cool-looking interface, it doesn't take up the whole screen, and i'm sure its based on the same tech as pixedv. of course, its only in japanese -- big problem.

bile, does your version of pixedv take up the whole screen (like imovie 2 used to do) or not? does it look like CME?

here's a link to the japanese version of CME:

http://www.pixela.co.jp/products/mpeg/download_captympegedit.html

i do wish CME or pixedv or whatever will be released soon as a stand alone product, or bundled only with captydvd -- hopefully at a sub $100 price point.

[bilestyle]

yes it is full screen it looks like this

[brett]

so i guess capty mpeg edit is pixedv's _latest_ mpeg cutter -- in fact, i think the version in my screen cap was released last month -- iirc. i believe the latest english pixedv is older than that. i hate screen takeovers, so now i'm even less inclined to bite the bullet for $220 just to get pixedv (w/ the ads product). i really hope that if/when someone unbundles pixela's mpeg cutter it is not a screen-takeover -- like capty mpeg edit (tho i don't really care what its called).

my kingdom (or at least $99) for a capty mpeg edit english localisation!

[bilestyle]

i will admit its extremely annoying when any software goes full screen and doesnt give the option of changing to a windowed view.. but it IS possible to background that specific program by pressing command-tab. not sure if you knew that already or not, but yeh obviously even with that way around it, its still hard to spend that much money for JUST pixe dv. Hopefully the next version will be vastly improved.. im pretty sick of using this old version when i know they got something better in japanese.