Need Help With Converting Letterbox to Anamorphic

[Mythos2002]

Hello,

I'm trying to convert some of my Laserdiscs to DVD-R. I want to convert them from 2.35:1 Letterbox 4:3 to 2.35:1 Anamorphic Widescreen 16:9 and am having some trouble. Here is a little background. I have the latest Virtual Dub, the latest TMPNGEnc Plus version, and a 4:3 TV. The reason I'm going 16:9 is that I plan to get a Widescreen HDTV down the line. I'm in the US, so my Laserdiscs are NTSC.

What I've done so far is capture the LD's in Virtual Dub at 720x480 using Huffyuv for compression. I have encoded small test clips in TMPNGEnc. From what I've been told, I'm supposed to set the Video stream option to 16:9 Display, set the Source to 4:3 NTSC 525 Line (720x480), and set the Video Arrange Method to Full Screen (Keep Aspect Ratio). I've done that as well as tried the other 4:3 source settings. The result is that I get an image that not only has the top and bottom black bars (which it should), but it also has bars on the right and left. The bars on the sides are there regardless if I play the clips in Windows Media Player, WinDVD, or on my TV with a test DVD-RW. I've tried using the following AVISynth script:

LoadPlugin("g:\decombfilter\Decomb.dll")
Avisource("e:\Empire\empire1.avi")
Telecide(guide=0,post=false)
Decimate(mode=0,cycle=5)
LanczosResize(720,480,0,102,720,276)
AddBorders(0,60,0,60)

I have also tried loading my AVI file straight into TMPNG instead of using an AVI script and using the Clip frame option in TMPNG to handle the masking of the black bars. This way, I will get new black bars without any noise in them and they will be a darker black as well.

Is there something I'm doing terribly wrong? I'm using DVD Movie Factory 2 for the authoring. Do I need to use an authoring program that allows me to input a 16:9 DAR flag in order for me to play these clips on my 4:3 set with the correct aspect ratio and black bars on the top and bottom only?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I've tried searching for the answer, but so many of the posts I found deal with SVCD's, VCD's, XVIDs, DIVX, etc. instead of DVD. Thanks.

Mythos

[energy80s]

Load your capture into TMPG directly. Go to the clip frame option and clip down the letterboxing at the top and bottom of the picture to get the correct 16:9 image. Set your video output to 16:9 and the video arrange method to FullScreen - not keeping the aspect ratio. That should work OK for you, it certainly does for me. Do a 10 second encode just to confirm the correct aspect ratio (preview it in Power DVD) before commiting to a full encode.

[DJRumpy]

If you want to continue using AVISynth for your editing, then your script will work. Just edit it to look like this, and set your source to '16:9' in TMPGenc.

LoadPlugin("g:\decombfilter\Decomb.dll")
Avisource("e:\Empire\empire1.avi")
Telecide(guide=0,post=false)
Decimate(mode=0,cycle=5)
LanczosResize(720,360,0,102,720,276)
AddBorders(0,60,0,60)

Your resize command was wrong. When you add the borders, they add an additional 120 lines of resolution. Since you had already resized your video to 480 with the LanczosResize command, you were actually getting a video that was 720x600.

[Mythos2002]

Thanks DJRumpy.

Do I have the rest of my LanczosResize parameters correct? I wasn't sure about the 102 and 276. That was what someone else came up with. To me, 360 is 102 is 258 instead of 276. Am I reading the command wrong?

I don't know if my encode looks exactly right, but I don't have the bars on the sides anymore thanks to your method. The picture doesn't look stretched or anything. I just don't know if it is still 2.35:1.

Thanks.

Mythos

[funkguy4]

Load up your file in VDub

Use the crop filter to remove all the black bars.

Use the resize filter and make
New width: 720
New height: 360
Filter mode: Lanczos3
Expand frame and letterbox
Frame width: 720
Frame height: 480

Frameserve it to TMPGEnc raw, and encode it as 16:9.

[DJRumpy]

funkguy4, VirtualDub is inherintly slower than AVISynth, because it works in the RGB colorspace.

Mythos2002, the parameters are 'generally' correct for a letterboxed 2.35:1 movie, and should get you a correct input for TMPGenc. You should always tweak them a little to ensure their right for your source. It changes from source to source. I've seen letterboxing with a letterbox top or bottom as little as 96 pixels high, or as much as 120 pixels high. Just try a few parameters to cut right up to the image area, without cutting into the image area.

[funkguy4]

DJRumpy, TMPGEnc (well older versions than the latest one) works in the RGB colorspace, so that compensates. With TMPGEnc, either way, you'll lose time in the color space conversion (that is why TMPGEnc is outrageouesly slow compared to the other encoder, this would lead you to believe!).

[Mythos2002]

Thanks. DJRumpy. I'm still playing with the settings. Even with my script set as above, I had to use clip frame and crop 60 more from top and bottom.

I'm upset because I did a full encode. While the quality was good, the picture was jerky. I thought with the telecide and decimate parameters I had that I would be safe because my test encodes of small clips turned out smooth. Could adding I-Pictures cause jerkiness?

Mythos

[DJRumpy]

funkguy4, a colorspace conversion in and of itself doesn't cause too much of a performance hit (although it does causea slight hit). It's actually working in the colorspace itself that causes a slowdown. Both VirtualDub, and TMPGenc, work in the RGB colorspace, where AVISynth can work in YUY2, or YV12, which is much faster. TMPGenc's primary performance hit isn't due to the RGB colorspace. The author has admitted that speed was not his primary concern. He was more interested in quality, and never worked to enhance the performance. If he did, TMPgenc would be a serious contenter in the encoder market, where it's currently a bargain purchase now.

Mythos, could you have the wrong field order? That will cause jerkiness in your video. I'm assuming it's most noticable on pan's, and quick movement? You can use the 'Deinterlace' filter in TMPGenc, and switch the field order, to see which causes more jerk. Try to use the same scene that your noticing the jerkienss in now. From your comments, I'm assuming your source was telecined? What filter and settings did you use to IVTC?

[funkguy4]

Mythos, could you have the wrong field order? That will cause jerkiness in your video. I'm assuming it's most noticable on pan's, and quick movement? You can use the 'Deinterlace' filter in TMPGenc, and switch the field order, to see which causes more jerk. Try to use the same scene that your noticing the jerkienss in now. From your comments, I'm assuming your source was telecined? What filter and settings did you use to IVTC?

I agreee, he might have the field order wrong. I've seen people have that problem before.

[Mythos2002]

I'm positive it's not a field order issue. I have checked all of that in advance and it doesn't skip. Wrong field orders are obvious due to there severity.

What I did was reencode. The new encode played fine with no sound in WinDVD. The reason it doesn't have sound is that I went the M2V and Wav file route.

The test DVD I made with DVD Movie Factory 2 was terrible. Complete stutters, sound out of sync and breaking up. It did that on both the TV and PC. However, the encode itself played fine. The wav file also played fine. It was just the test Disc that didn't. I made test discs with DVD Movie Factory before that played fine, but they were MPEG-2 files where the audio and video were one file. I guess it doesn't like M2V and Wav files. Time to get DVDLab I guess.

Mythos

[funkguy4]

Since you went PCM, maybe the bitrate was too high for your I/O to access in real-time? Try going to AC3, BeSweet will do it for free.

[DJRumpy]

I agree. Try another audio format like AC3, or if your not too worried about being in spec, MP2 will serve just as well.

[Mythos2002]

I'll probably have to reencode. Is it normal for WinDVD to pause when switching Vobs? When I authored the encode file, it was split into 4 Vobs. If I made a playlist using all of the Vobs and everything else in the Video_TS folder, I would get a pause when there was a Vob change. This caused the sound to get out of sync. However, if I played each Vob by itself, everything was fine. Would a DVD act this way as well? I haven't made another DVD yet. I was just playing the Vob files that were created when I reauthored. I got rid of the Vobs that caused all of the stutters. I also used 384 for audio instead of PCM this time.

Mythos

[DJRumpy]

You normally wouldn't use each VOB as a track. You should merge them into an M2V, and Audio stream. You can use VOBMerge, or VOBEdit. If you have the source DVD, you can just tell your ripping program to extract it as one stream, rather than splitting it into multiple VOB's. This way, your authoring software accepts it as a single video, and not a multi-video project.

[Mythos2002]

Would that work with my original source wasn't DVD? I captured LD's with Virtual Dub and encoded with TMPNGEnc. I'll have a look at the programs you mentioned and see if that helps. I didn't actually get the Vobs until I loaded my single m2v video and wav audio file into DVD Movie Factory and DVD Lab. I tried both of those programs to see if the results would differ. I only tried to play the Vobs in WinDVD as a test before burning to DVD. Should I burn the DVD and then see if it pauses or is it going to act the same? Thanks for the information. I'll see what happens.

Mythos

[funkguy4]

Should I burn the DVD and then see if it pauses or is it going to act the same? Thanks for the information. I'll see what happens.

Mythos

Those pauses are your hard drive seeking the beginning of your next VOB since you loaded them individually into a playlist. If you had a hard drive with a bigger buffer, this wouldn't happen .

[DJRumpy]

I didn't actually get the Vobs until I loaded my single m2v video and wav audio file into DVD Movie Factory and DVD Lab

Sorry Mythos, I assumed this was a DVD rip, and not a home project. Since you authored these files in your DVD software, the you should have VOB files. If you want to preview/play them in WinDVD, or PowerDVD, open the main movie IFO file ( VIDEO_TS.IFO ), and not the individual VOB files. If your prompted to select a program to open the IFO file, just pick your DVD Player software. It's highly unlikely that the pause is due to hard drive performance. See times for a typical hard drive are in milliseconds, and they pre-load the next file just to prevent even the milliseconds delay (say from 3 to 15 milliseconds on average). There are 1000 milliseconds in a second. You get the idea. That said, it is not, however, impossible for your hard drive to be the culprit. If you never defrag it, your extremely low on space on the drive holding your swap file, or you simply don't have enough system memory (ram), then you could experience excessively slow drive performance. Try the IFO file and see if you still get a delay.

To answer your other question (somewhat irrelevant now, but you might find it useful some day), if you do not have a source DVD, then you can use VOBMerge, or VOBEdit to join all of your VOB's into one file. You can then either demux the file into an M2V and audio stream, or if your dvd authoring software prefers a multiplexed stream, feed it the VOB. If it doesn't like VOB, simply rename it to .MPG.

[FulciLives]

Try something OTHER THAN Ulead's Movie Factory 2 for the authoring. I've found that MF2 will often create a final DVD with playback trouble when you use an external MPEG-2 encoder such as TMPGEnc. I've had problems, for instance, using progressive 23.976fps MPEG-2 files that have been properly flaged for pulldown purposes. I haven't had problems if the MPEG-2 is truely 29.97fps

In any event if the M2V and LPCM WAV file you created with TMPGEnc play fine BEFORE authoring then there is a big chance (especially knowing that you used MF2) that the problem is your authoring software.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[energy80s]

I use Movie Factory 1 and have had no problems with importing TMPG encoded files. Has version 2 got "issues"?

If push comes to shove, load the different VOBs directly into MF (you may need to re-name them to .mpg) and author out to your hard drive as a DVD Folder. Use SmartRipper to rip this back as one large file and IFOedit to get rid of the index points.

[Mythos2002]

Thanks for all of the information. Don't worry if you weren't clear on what I was asking before. I have a bad habit of not always being clear when I ask questions.

I'm probably going to reencode again. This time, I'm not going to mess with the I-Pictures. I made a test disc and it played fine without the pauses. The picture quality was pretty nice, but there was a few places where the IVTC was still a little jerky. The audio also got out of sync by the end of the disc. That was using the PCM audio file. It seems like I'm getting close. I just have to work on it a little more.

I used DVDLab for that test disc. I think the problem with sync may be the fact that I cannot set the chapter lag with the trial version.

Thanks again.

Mythos

[DJRumpy]

Then I would definately switch the audio. Try AC3 rather than PCM (use BeSweetGUI). I can't suggest much for the IVTC, except to try a different filter, either via VirtualDub, or AVISynth, before encoding in TMPGenc. Those will give you much more flexability in your IVTC filter settings than TMPGenc will.