DV to AVI

[State Of Mind]

I own a Panasonic Mini-DV PalmCorder and upload DV via an IEEE 1394 Firewire cable into Ulead VideoStudio v7.0. I have converted to AVI with the DivX codecs using programs like VirtualDub and FlaskMPEG but noticed that it smoothes the image to a point where sharpness is lost, even at a bitrate of 6000 which is equal to DV according to Dr. DivX. I have tried encoding DV to MPEG-2 with TMPGEnc Plus but it makes the image blocky.
I wish to learn how to convert the DV to AVI without loss of quality but wish to obtain a reasonable filesize near 10 MB/Min. I am pretty sure this can be done because once with my old computer I used a small program called AVI Compression Converter v1.1 and the final product was amazing and gave me chills and left me with an open mouth. It only did it for me once and never again after that. I also like to remove unwanted frames from my videos. I have been trying to figure it out for over a year.

The specifics of my new computer are:
CPU - Pentium 4, 3.00 GHz
Video Card - ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128 MB
RAM - 1.0 GB DDR

Me and my friends do stunts and comedy scenes similar to what you'd see on Jackass and we have our own wrestling group as well. I have at least a dozen tapes with footage that I deperately want to upload, edit and convert. I have been waiting until I get my conversion methods figured out before I upload anything. If anyone knows what I should do, please help me. If you have MSN Messenger and are nice enough to help me outside of the forums, my e-mail address is jwg_ns18@hotmail.com.

PS: I love editing video and watching the final product. Doing so with the satisfaction of doing it successfully without problems removes a great deal of negativity from my consciousness and replaces it with cheerfulness and peace at mind. I apoligize for being mushy in the forums but I just want people to know how much it would mean to me if they helped me.

[BJ_M]

keep it at DV , which is very high compressed format (and is an avi file also)

avi is just a wrapper -- there are about 40-50 types of avi ...

[racer-x]

If you're using XP, then download Windows Media Encoder 9
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/9series/encoder/default.aspx
It has a lot of encoding options - produces excellent video and audio quallity with VBR and CBR. It will let you produce multiple video and file sizes. The only drawback I can see is if you distibute, then the viewer will need updated codecs for WMP. The plus is it's free!

[DJRumpy]

WMV is just another MPEG-4 codec. It's technically simular to Divx and XviD. I've never had a problem with XviD. What settings and encode method did you use (i.e. CBR, VBR, CQ, etc)?

[State Of Mind]

BJ_M, would one of those types of AVI be the type that will do what I am asking?

DJRumpy, I've probably tried all of them at one time or another. You seem to have the best answer out of all the replies so far. Do you think you could help me outside of the forums? To asnwer your question, CBR and VBR sound the most familar. I usually try a 2-Pass.

[DJRumpy]

Sure, just PM me. Just be aware that I rarely log into the net over the weekend, so there might be a delay in getting a response.

[State Of Mind]

What about editing my video with VirtualDub, and using a frameserver to feed the frames to TMPGEnc and encode to MPEG1? Is that what a frameserver does? Is any quality lost with converting DV to MPEG1?

[thayne]

What about editing my video with VirtualDub, and using a frameserver to feed the frames to TMPGEnc and encode to MPEG1? Is that what a frameserver does? Is any quality lost with converting DV to MPEG1?

Yeah, you will loose A LOT! Mpeg 1 is highly compressed and low resolution, but to put on a website for download it's not bad. DivX will give you higher quality and a smaller file size though.

I wish to learn how to convert the DV to AVI without loss of quality but wish to obtain a reasonable filesize near 10 MB/Min.

That's just not possible....

[State Of Mind]

Well, I find DivX loses a lot of sharpness, even with a sharpening filter, and needs a high bitrate to produce almost the same quality, but even that gives a huge filesize. I had a clip 2:30 in duration and it was 100+ MBs! What else can I do?

[thayne]

You can't have DV quality without DV file size. You could try the windows media, but I think DivX will give you the best quality/file size. Mpeg 1 is way worse. mpeg 2 looks good, but then you will have larger file size, larger than the same quality DivX.

[State Of Mind]

Ok, so what bitrate would you suggest?

[thayne]

I don't know, seems like every video is different. I usually just play around with different setting till it looks the way I want at the files size I want. I have encoded some files as many as 10 times before I get what I want, or what I can live with. Higher quality always equals higher file size.

[State Of Mind]

Hmmm, the thing is, I was happy with a bitrate of 1200 on my old computer with all my DV videos converting to DivX. Now on this new PC, the videos are horrible quality at that same bitrate.

[thayne]

You may want to give Windows Media Encoder 9 a try. I would never use it for anything other than putting a video on a web site though, but it may give good results so it's worth a try.

[funkguy4]

You can do your conversion with relatively no quality loss using the KDVD template for TMPGEnc from KVCD.net. I think it yeilds something like 11.5MB/minute with ULTRA HIGH UNCANNY QUALITY FOR MPEG2!

[BJ_M]

You can do your conversion with relatively no quality loss using the KDVD template for TMPGEnc from KVCD.net. I think it yeilds something like 11.5MB/minute with ULTRA HIGH UNCANNY QUALITY FOR MPEG2!

what would be the point of that as you would have converted it into a lossy format that is hard now to edit , in a larger file than what was the DV file? .. if quality maters - leave it as DV or as some suggested if you need smaller storage - convert to divx .

[funkguy4]

Dude, MPEG2 will be less than the raw AVI he captured.....

[BJ_M]

Dude, MPEG2 will be less than the raw AVI he captured.....

Dude , DV is not raw (if you mean uncompressed) avi , its a compressed format..

AVI just is a wrapper - in his case he TRANSFERED DV via firewire ...

DV streams are highly editable (basicly equal to all I frames if you want to equate it to mpeg2) but mpeg2 is not near as editable and does not stand up to re-encoding as well as DV ..

using the mpeg2 KDVD templates makes it even more unfriendly for editing due to the high % of B and P frames , plus the bit rate you quoted would make the mpeg pratically useless for anything else as its to low for true D1 editing (close those) and to high for dvd ..

[funkguy4]

Look, 11.5MB/minute is much better than the retail DVDs you can rent at Blockbuster. Also, I didn't know he wanted to keep the file editable( ), I thought all he wanted to do was distribute. Do you realize that 11.5MB/minute is a little higher than the standard VCD bitrate, but the quality is, to reiterate, UNCANNY!

[bugster]

Look, 11.5MB/minute is much better than the retail DVDs you can rent at Blockbuster. Also, I didn't know he wanted to keep the file editable( ), I thought all he wanted to do was distribute. Do you realize that 11.5MB/minute is a little higher than the standard VCD bitrate, but the quality is, to reiterate, UNCANNY!

I think you should take a look at BJ_M's no of posts, and maybe browse through a few of them. He knows what he is talking about.

Yes, 11.5Mbs is higher bitrate than DVD spec, that doesn't mean its of any use to our original poster.

[bugster]

I have been waiting until I get my conversion methods figured out before I upload anything.

One thing is certain, do your editing in DV format. Only once you are satisfied with the results should you consider encoding to any other format.

[funkguy4]

I didn't say 11.5MB per second...I sed 11.5MB per minute. That's only ~1571 kilobits per second.

[bugster]

I didn't say 11.5MB per second...I sed 11.5MB per minute. That's only ~1571 kilobits per second.

Opps, so you did. What resolution are you using for that to get 'better than commercial DVD' quality. I ask because these are usually encoded at 720*576/480 (PAL/NTSC) with bitrates up to 9.8Mbps

[funkguy4]

It's a standard DVD template for TMPGEnc. Go to KVCD.net and frameserve about 20 seconds of action-filled footage from VirtualDub. Just watch and be amazed! :P

[funkguy4]

O, sry not to answer ur question on the res...It's full D1 NTSCfilm (720x480)

[bugster]

O, sry not to answer ur question on the res...It's full D1 NTSCfilm (720x480)

Well in that case I doubt it is suitable for State of Mind as his source is DV. If NTSC this will be 29.97fps, so he will have to up the bitrate by 20% due to having more frames.

Having said that, next time I have an NTSC film avi to convert, i may give it a try.

[BJ_M]

~1571 kilobits per second D1 material mpeg2 is pretty bad , 1/2 D1 @ that bit rate may be acceptable to some people i guess..

sure would make a small file though ..

mpeg4 though at those low bit rates would look better ..

point goes back to being editable - and as i said (and others) , DV is an editable format , ~1571 kilobits per second mpeg2 is not in any stretch ...

since i compressed and/or did the film to video conversions of some of the dvd's you see in blockbusters .. i'm pretty sure of thier bit rates ...

[funkguy4]

Please repost after having tried the template! Jesus Christ, just look at the quality of the file after you process it using the KDVD template. As for the NTSCfilm issue, you could just have TMPGEnc convert the framerate to NTSCfilm and then put a 3:2 pulldown flag on it. BJ_M, at least give it a try before speaking please.

[funkguy4]

Give me an email address and I will send you a small (about 5-7meg) clip of the quality of this KDVD template, and you can use PowerDVD to monitor the bitrate as you go.

[BJ_M]

i have tried all the templates , thats why i know that the dvd templates are not 100% compliant ..

i own pretty well all hardware and software encoders made and do a lot of beta and alpha testing of them also .. as part of that I check them in either M-Probe or Tektronix test equipment/software
- though i am mostly concerned with more HD encoding or d-cinema (non mpeg and mpeg) encoding (not nessessarly the same thing as HD) .. But also film to DVD conversions / downsizing / color corrections.

since i am encoding from the source files and films directly - not from a copy (a la dvd) , i can make a pretty good judge on quality ... though i also look at re-encoding quality also and a number of other factors ..