how can i capture REALLY BAD VHS without lost frames/sync?

[v1p0n3]

ok i'm really lost so someone help with this.

i have lots of old vhs tapes, some one them with really bad quality but i still want that tapes and i'd like to convert all them to dvd to the quality don't get worst..
so what you suggest me to buy?
first i was thinking in hauppaugue wintv pvr250, then in canopus advc-50 then in datavideo DAC-100 DV, and now after reading a lot of threads of this forum, a lot of reviews about this cards, a lot of stuff about drop frames i don't know what to do :/

can anyone show give me some advices before i spend like 300$ in a analog-dv converter that wont help me convert this tapes?

Thanks in advance.

[txpharoah]

In addition to hardware and software, you'd need a TBC and a SVHS VCR.

[indolikaa]

When you say really bad, does that create issues with the capture device itself? I ask because I was transferring some 'Time Was' shows that were on tape recorded in 1982. The Dazzle froze up several times. It's never done this before, and it hasn't happened since I finished those transfers.

And these were no-so-good tapes, to say the least...

Would you recommend a JVC S-VCR with the built-in 4Mb TBC?

[v1p0n3]

nop the capture card captures fine when the source is tv. i can capture at 720x576 without lost frames. the problem is when i go to the vhs.. this vhs are concert from 1990 to 1998 from diferent bands, they came from trades all over the world so the generation sometimes isn't great..

[macleod]

Maybe there should be a poll or something started for this, but I think that I have THE worst tape to transfer from VHS to DVD. The tape that I have is 20+ years old, which was taken and VHS'd from 8mm. From there, it was found under 2 feet of Mississippi mud (flood of 1993 in St. Louis MO).

After pulling the tape out of the mud, I began the quest of transferring it to DVD (tried VCD,SVCD,CVD and it didnt look good enough). Since the quest started, I have moved 2 times (first to MI and then to TX) all the while the tapes have been put in a storage facility at each location.

A co worker of mine has the E20 (personal desktop DVD-R recorder). Last night I set it to XP mode (1 hour) and transferred the tape (thank God it was originally recorded in SP) to DVD-R. From there I learned that a number of standalone DVD players do not play DVD-R created from the E20, SO, I ripped it to my HDD using DVDdecrypter and am now converting it in TMPGENC (via DVD2AVI) as mysonic and MF2 will not accept the video (actually it did when I changed the extension from VOB to MPG, but it would only play 10 seconds of it, although it was a 4 gig file???)

Anyway, I am waiting for TMPGENC to finish it up and then I will cut it up and author it the way I want to in MF2.

But back to your question, the E20 did a good job as it apparently has a TBC (and filters) in it. I would say that if the VHS you want to transfer MUST have the same quality as the original, take a shot at the E20 (or other desktop recorder).

[v1p0n3]

a few weeks ago i thought about buy one of that dvd-recorders but some ppl told me that the quality sucks.. now i don't really know what to do
anyone wanna say something about this method that macleod said?

[mkelley]

I can vouch for the E20 -- it has terrific TBC and will capture just about anything.

If you don't want to go the standalone route (because you want menus or you already have a burner) then I'd highly recommend the Dazzle Hollywood Bridge. With the "fix" it has never dropped a frame on me, even capturing truly horrendous VHS tapes my broadcast studio setup (with multiple TBCs) can't touch (these are mostly MST3K episodes I've already gotten third or fourth hand that started life as EP and were then rerecorded onto EP multiple times -- some of this stuff is almost unwatchable, but it's all I have got of some of them).

And if you go that route, buy the unit from a store like CompUSA where you have return privledges so if it doesn't work for you you're not out any money. Only way to go.

[txpharoah]

under 2 feet of Mississippi mud (flood of 1993 in St. Louis MO). ..TX) all the while the tapes have been put in a storage facility at each location...

I don't know which is worse... Texas heat or Mississippi mud.

[macleod]

Its a toss up between the mud and the texas heat. The mud is like mollassass(not even close to being spelled right), but what can be said about Texas heat. Damn! Course, I have gotten use to my AC running all day and all night. Been here for just over 2 years and really like the state.

Here is what I am doing with my home movies (and the infamous mud tape). I used a SVHS player to play the tape and then use the S-Video connection to route to the E20. Since this will be the base line for everything I do, I am recording EVERYTHING IN XP(1 hour) mode. The E20 does XP,SP,LP,EP (1,2,4,6 hour) and I figured that 1)I can't play the raw DVD-R on my apex 1100W (which will play a cookie), I might as well use the DVD-R as my source material and 2)I need to have a new "source" video that I can use instead of repeatedly using the mud tape.

Anyway....I copy it in XP mode and then finalize the DVD(multiple DVD's). I then open up DVD2SVCD and use it to convert the movie to mpeg2 so that I can edit it and then pull it into movie factory 2. I just completed one of the tapes and it looks pretty good. I noticed some interlacing issues, so I'll need to go back to the drawing board. When I used the smart deinterlace option, the interlacing was gone for a 1 minute preview of the clip.

All and all I am pretty impressed with the E20. I don't have any sync issues and the "final" product looks good (for what it is) on the DVD player. The thing that ticks me off is that the DVDr from the E20 wont play in my player. So, if you want to have that, you have to pray that your E20 never craps out on you.

I am going to do somemore reading on specific filters and whatnot that I can use to clean up (and keep the picture crisp) and will try to post back my settings for my home movies. If anyone else has proven success with settings in DVD2SVCD on home movies that they want to share, please post them.

[txpharoah]

mollassass(not even close to being spelled right)

I noticed some interlacing issues, so I'll need to go back to the drawing board. When I used the smart deinterlace option, the interlacing was gone for a 1 minute preview of the clip.

Molasses. Add it to your BBQ beans and BBQ sauce. Makes them taste better. And a dash of brown sugar. Yumm! You can also add it to homemade cookie dough to gve some extra sweetness. Enough about food...

I'd not deinterlace. Try to figure out how to get the interlacing to match up from source, through all conversions, to the final product... which may not be easy. Best quality is to stay interlaced.

[spiderman2k1]

Ha indolikaa where's where's Hannity LOL. Any way i'm in the same boat as ever one else with old VHS tape's. I have a Dazzle 2 whick is not the best for old tape's. Also have a ATI AIW it's better but still has it's problem's. My ATI shutter's repeat's the same picture for about 10 second's this only happen's with old VHS tape's I do not get frame drop's or sync problem's. Think I get this ATI put in MacroVision protextion but I'm using a Sima Video CopyMaster to remove the MacroVision but ATI is a little funny I get a ERROR that say's this signal is copy protected press OK it say's just press OK when the capture is finish you'll still get your capture

[spiderman2k1]

macleod When you say some dvd plater will not play back dvd-r from the E20 I think if you run it through DVD2ONE it will fix the problem also you do not have to encode the video again. I rip a movie RED planet about 4gig's nero said some thing about the vob file's and this disc might not play back on some dvd player's. I just use DVD2ONE to fix it work's fine

[indolikaa]

@man of 2001 spiders!

Patience. Hannity will show himself in due time...

I use the DVC-II and I get really good transfers from older VHS tapes. Some are good enough I don't bother to play with them, I just burn, burn, burn. Just finished another one early this morning and it looks great, although I had to restart twice because the DVC-II froze up. Strange. Does it on both VCRs but none of my LD or DVD players.

Texas heat sucks! At least here in the AZ desert it's a dry heat...

[SatStorm]

Well, with the old good Hauppauge win tv primio FM I can capture any source at any resolution with 2 - 5 frame drops per hour. Never had lip sync issues and with virtualdub, I can filter easily using temporal filters to clean my source before the final encoding.
I captured some 23 year old VHS tapes recently and we talking for SECAM source (the ultimate terror....). Very used, very old and with broken plastic parts over the years (one of them, didn't even have the protector infront the tape)!
They look OK, considering the souce. Like the original VHS in a good TBC VCR.

Personally, I believe capturing to avi, filter and encode to DVD is the only root to succeed good results. It takes time and twice the HD space, also it is more hard that way, but if you follow this root you can for sure succeed
4 hours of VHS per DVD @ 352 X 576/480 or 7 hours of VHS per DVD on 352 X 288 if you are in the PAL Land (252 X 240 is not a good idea for you the NTSC users...).
Of couse, a VCR with TBC is neccessary. And I think that most DVD recorder standalones have a TBC built in system while you inserting a signal from composite, s-video or RF. That could explain why they do a so good job...

[macleod]

I ripped the DVDR and then used dvdshrink to redo it and then burnt with nero and still had the same issue. I think it is that damn title that the E20 forces me to put in when I finalize the dvdr in the E20. The other thing is that I am using princo media. Now, I am not one to knock princo, however, the recorder instructions says to buy panasonic only media (usually thats just a way to have people buy their stuff, but I think it might be true in this case). I am going to buy some and try another one.

I have been able to capture most of my home movies. When I get some time, I have got to work on the interlacing issue (need to do some reading on how to keep the quality, but lose the jagged lines). On my computer, the DVD-R look fantastic. I dont want to recommend that everyone runs out and buys a DVD recorder, but I would like to hear from someone who has the E20(or other standalone dvd recorder) and also does software caps from a cap card (not the professional kind, but like the ATI brands). I just wonder if it just makes better sense to do the E20'ish method so that you can get a "clean" raw source and then do conversion/compression from there vs doing a cap.

[mkelley]

I have both the E20 as well as a consumer grade capture device (the Hollywood Bridge) and unless I wasn't going to edit (or didn't need fancy menus) I always use my Hollywood Bridge.

While the E20 does a very good job it is not as good as capturing as DV-AVI and then encoding to whatever rate you want (because you're really locked to the four or so rates the E20 offers, and none of them are optimal for most video). And, of course, you can't edit MPEG without problems and loss of quality.

But you also have to decide how much of a life you want -- if you have tons of old VHS the E20 is much faster and easier (at this stage of my life I'm getting more and more selective about what I actually want to keep).