Perhaps last day to buy DVDXCopy/XCopy Express

[mkelley]

Just thought I'd drop a reminder to people that the Northern District of California court, San Francisco Division will hear the case against 321 (not the original suit that 321 brought, but the countersuit) tomorrow. Based on preliminary findings, it's possible 321's products may not be available for long.

Here are some relevent links in case anyone wants the facts:

http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/914190.asp
http://www.out-law.com/php/page.php?page_id=movieindustryinco1053082566&area=news
http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/04/23/HNdmcasuit_1.html
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,108133,00.asp

Note that these articles refer to various hearings that started in April, but tomorrow is supposed to be the final decision in the case (but you all know how legal matters are -- it's quite possible this will drag out even further). For those who don't want to follow links, this relevent quote by the judge in the case is what's disturbing to those of us who believe in the validity of these products:

CNET - The source for computers and technology

U.S. DISTRICT JUDGE Susan Illston, considering a summary judgment motion, said she had carefully read decisions in two similar cases; judges for DVD Copy Control Association v. 2600 and U.S. v. ElcomSoft said that intellectual property holders can pursue software developers who offer products that crack copyright protections.
“I am substantially persuaded by them,” she told both sides.

So the judge is already leaning in the direction of making this software illegal.

I'm not trying to spread rumors, nor start a panic -- I just want to alert anyone sitting on the fence about buying this software that this would be an excellent time to make up your mind. I personally went ahead and bought it because I want to have this tool regardless of what the U.S. courts decide about it.

[vric]

the court never won against a software like that. (beside Napster)

IF the author of CSS decrypter didn't get accused, DVDXcopy won't be.

IT IS LEGAL to make backup of your own DVD, so the software is legit and is legal. What ppl make with it is not the responsability of the software creator.

IF a guy kill someone with his car when he is drunk, do we accuse the Car maker or the beer compagny ? same case here..

[borghe]

vric - actually cracking CSS is illegal. The author of DeCSS was indeed found guilty of it. What he was found innocent of was doing it with discs he owned. IIRC there were basically two charges. One was that he brokee CSS (or more correctly WROTE AND DISTRIBUTED DeCSS). The second was that he did so on discs he no longer had the right to use because he infringed on the copyrights. It was that second charge that he was acquitted of. Be bypassing CSS you are bypassing an electronic security measure, and according to DMC that is completely illegal, even in regards to fair use.

Unfortunately the way the DMC Act is written, what 321 is doing is illegal. I am neither in favor nor not in favor of it (well, maybe a little in favor of copying ), but one of the main reasons the DMC was creaetd was for DVDs and the CSS copy protection. It was basically worded the way it is so that in the event that someone breaks an encryption, it is still illegal to do so.

But laws are only enforcable if the powers that be enforce them, so who knows how this one will turn out. According to the law (and the way the judge is sounding) it doesn't look good, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[vric]

Anyway i really want see the conclusion of this story, but I'm sure they will be guilty

DVDXcopy is in sale at Futureshop (Canada) on first page with a 10$ rabate.. It would be the first time I see an illegal software being sold in a big store and even being on the front page of theire special paper of the week.

sorry for my english

[trialsofg]

Gee, does this mean that we won't get to see the "Platinum" version that we've all been waiting for? I hope 321 survives, but if they don't, there is always DVDShrink and I do so like the price!

[borghe]

I will say this. After reading some of those articles this "could be" a monumental landmark case regarding DMCA if found in favor of 321. It is looking bleak right now, but MSNBC in particular has some promising quotes from the judge regarding public domain and freedom of speech. They assert that even if the copyright of a work expires it would still be effictively illegal to copy the movie under the current interpretation of the DMCA. This is obviously not what was intended. Also, she questions such things as a students ability to use a clip, or a movie reviewers ability to use a clip, both of which would have been legal in the case of VHS tapes.

It will be interesting to say the least.

[Pootie]

Any new news on this?

[mkelley]

New news is an oxymoron <g>.

The Screen Savers had the 321 president on and he described his day in court. He said he went into court feeling, on a scale from 1 to 10 in terms of his chances of winning, about minus 10. He thought they would be out of business that day.

After the hearing he actually felt optimistic -- now he's back at 1 (thinking it could go either way). The judge has been deliberating and has not released a verdict yet, but it appears as if whatever verdict comes out it will be appealed by one party or the other, all the way to the Supreme Court.

Obviously that will take years, but if the judge rules in favor of the movie companies I'm pretty sure there will be an injunction against 321, effectively putting them out of business.

All the stuff is pretty well documented here: http://www.321studios.com/

[Jukka]

Actually new news is not an oxymoron. In an oxymoron the 2 words must be opposites, therefore 'old news' would likely be an oxymoron.

Other ones would include:

new antiques
alone together
etc.

[mkelley]

Jukka,

LOL, actually, that's *exactly* what I was thinking ("old news") but for some reason my brain didn't type what I wanted to (I was going to say something along the lines of "there can't be any "old news"... and then point out that "new news" is redundant). Trust me, I'm an old English major to whom precision is important.

Ah, but it's still too early here -- I was at work at 5am and I never quite wake up until 10 (for some reason I tend to make a lot of mistakes in my job :>)

[mkelley]

Oh, forgot to mention my favorites:

Leisure suit
military intelligence

[wingnut2003]

if the software does get banned, there will be many other ways of getting it (not metioning how, but many know). besides there will always be other ways of doing it with other software here is a link to a freeware version that does just about the same thing as 321's software http://www.dvddecrypter.com/ just doesn't have all the bells and whistles. if that link dosen't work use this one http://www.dawnload.net/video_software/dvd_rippers/dvd_decrypter.cfm

[mkelley]

I use Decrypter, but it doesn't do *quite* the same thing -- try backing up a movie with all the menus and extras and splitting it across two disks. You won't be able to (if you're real good with IFOedit and other software you can cobble together some things, but ultimately you will still fail with certain aspects such as preserving chapter points, etc.).

As to whether 321's software will still be available... well, it would have to be hacked, as it requires a registration key. Not only that, but the power of any software comes in support and upgrades. When the new Windows is released (apparently '05 now) a lot of stuff may not run anymore. Even leaving all that aside, we want 321 to continue to make improvements in their fine software. Finally, if the courts do rule against 321, it's likely there will be major crackdowns (so to speak on all sites carrying and talking about such tools. I would not be at all surprised if, given the power of the DMCA, we don't even see site closures.

A far better way to look at it would be that if by some miracle 321 wins, the climate for this site and tools *like* Decrypter will suddenly improve tremendously. We will see even better freeware and payware available that can help us all. Everyone here would benefit greatly by this, and we should all be rooting for them to succeed.

[wingnut2003]

i haven't used decrypeter that much yet, but i have copied a dvd with after i first downloaded it, it worked fine for me, but then again it all fit on one disk. i also have 321's software, and i am sure it will work better. i need to play around with decryter to see which works for me me, but i guessing 321's software will win hands down.

[rkr1958]

I use Decrypter, but it doesn't do *quite* the same thing -- try backing up a movie with all the menus and extras and splitting it across two disks. You won't be able to (if you're real good with IFOedit and other software you can cobble together some things, but ultimately you will still fail with certain aspects such as preserving chapter points, etc.).

I'm not sure I follow you here. I've been very successful at backing up and splitting DVD-9s across two DVD-Rs. I use DVD Decrypter (to rip), Ifoedit (to split) and RecordNow to burn. Except for the fact that I have to change discs half-way through the movie everything looks, feels and acts like the original on the screen and from the remote. I can select and go to any chapter from the main menu or I can skip to the next chapter when playing using the skip button on my remote. I even set the second disc to start playing at the point the first disc left off when I insert it. Except for ease of use and everthing being in one package how is this result any different from the one produced by 321?

[handyguy]

mr moore, the owner said if he didn't win he would release the password that would enable it for anyone for free.... nice.

BTW, wasn't it the other way around? 321 studios sued, not that they were being sued, they were doing a pre emptive strike.

[mkelley]

They sued but it's the countersuit that's being heard first (that's just the way things work in the legal lawyer world ::>).

To the other poster -- as I said, if you are good with IFOEdit you can do much of the same things, but not all (for one thing you can't preview your split point, for example).

[Gil T Pleasure]

In an oxymoron the 2 words must be opposites, therefore 'old news' would likely be an oxymoron.

My favorite oxymoron is....

Microsoft Works

[fravel]

borghe wrote:

It is looking bleak right now, but MSNBC in particular has some promising quotes from the judge regarding public domain and freedom of speech. They assert that even if the copyright of a work expires it would still be effictively illegal to copy the movie under the current interpretation of the DMCA.

How could a Public Domain movie be illegal to copy, other than defeating a copy protection scheme? And then, is it legal to "copyprotect" something that belongs to the public, negating access to it? Furthermore, aren't those companies making copies of the public domain movies they sell? That would be illegal, too.
As an example, the movie Cyrano D'Bergerac, for which José Ferrer won an Oscar, is in the Public Domain. It's copyright wasn't renewed, so any company that claims sole ownership to it it's wrong.
I would like to see further discussion regarding the Public Domain issue.

[DVDMizer]

Hey guys................found THE BEST PROGRAM OUT THERE !!!!!

Even Better than DVDXCOPY or DVDXCOPY Express..................

Its called (((((( DVDSHRINK ))))))................This is the BEST Program out there for making backup copies of ANY DVD !

You can get the prog here............... http://www.dvdshrink.org/#

[mkelley]

I use DVDShrink quite a bit, and agree it's a very nice program. It doesn't do what DVDXCopy does, however, which is to preserve the quality of your original material precisely.

For movies which are just somewhat larger than a single disk it's the software of choice for me. For movies that are either longer or shorter I think DVDXCopy does a better job, at least for my needs.

[DVDMizer]

I use DVDShrink quite a bit, and agree it's a very nice program. It doesn't do what DVDXCopy does, however, which is to preserve the quality of your original material precisely.

For movies which are just somewhat larger than a single disk it's the software of choice for me. For movies that are either longer or shorter I think DVDXCopy does a better job, at least for my needs.

This is True...............But...........I can't see ANY diff in the quality........Its a hell of alot better than VCD, SVCD, ect.........By a long shot.......

[mkelley]

It all depends on your own needs and situation. If the movie isn't too long (particularly if you don't go above level 5 compression) and you aren't using high end equipment you probably won't see much of a difference -- for longer movies there is a difference which is quite noticable by most people even on smaller televisions.

Last night I backed up three discs and one of them was just fine -- the other two were, quite frankly, unwatchable on our 36" television (not a particularly new model, and certainly not high definition or even using component inputs). Using DXDXCopy made perfect copies of both of the two (splitting them into four discs) that were *much* better.

Get as many tools as you can -- and not everything will look like a nail <g>.

[DodgeViper]

As of today 6/6/03 you can still DL DVD X. After reading many post I decided to buy @ DL the software, I don't even own a DVD player or burner. Wait till my wife see the next VISA statement it's going to show a purchase of a Sony drive bought after sumitting this post......

[DVDMizer]

As of today 6/6/03 you can still DL DVD X. After rading many post I decided to buy @ DL the software, I don't even own a DVD player or burner. Wait till my wife see the next VISA statement it's going to show a purchase of a Sony drive bought after making this post......

Hey Buddy, just my advice............ Get the Pioneer DVR 105 instead of the Sony..........Better Drive and Cheaper too........

[mkelley]

Ah... go for it. Life's too short <g>.

I debated a long time before I bought my Sony burner last month, and now I'm not even sure why I was so worried about it. It has turned out to be a *great* purchase, and I'm able to backup and create DVDs with ease.

Besides -- you work hard, don't you? Reward yourself. (It could be a lot worse. Tell your wife you could be a sports fisherman and spend $20K on a new boat :>)

[DodgeViper]

See my screen name it was a lot worse....