Weird problem with DVD->XviD and standalone player

[legionpc]

I have an LG standalone DVD player that plays DivX/XviD as well, and quite well. Compatibility is very high. I have recently however run into a problem with some encodes I did and I can't figure out what the problem is. I was backing up the Sopranos into XviD, and given some episodes are quite lengthy I decided to try 700MB files, with AC3 audio. Encoded using AutoGK, burned and tested in my player. It plays, but not properly. The problem is hard to describe.. the video looks VERY blocky, and has some wierd issues with colours "sticking" (hard to explain) but the main problem is the horrendous blocking. On the PC, it plays fine. Additionally, encoding the same episode into a 350MB file with vbr mp3 audio works fine on my standalone. The thing is, I've got some episodes of another show, which I didn't encode, that are a similar runtime, in 700MB XviD with AC3 format and they played perfectly. What is it about my encodes that is causing the problem with the standalone? It's something I'd very much like to resolve. Any help appreciated, thanks.

[manono]

Hi-

Your symptoms are a little peculiar, in that one with MP3 works, while another with AC3 has the problem. Even so I would still attribute it to the custom matrices that AutoGK uses by default. I don't know which chipset your player uses, but it sounds like an ESS chipset problem. My suggestion is to reinstall AutoGK, this time with the ESS chipset option enabled, and then try that problematical Sopranos episode again.

[legionpc]

Interesting, enabling ESS support fixed it. Still confused as to why 350MB files played properly without it, and not 700MB files, but anyway, thanks.

[celtic_druid]

Could have been a bitrate problem. ESS basically just enables a Home Theatre profile which limits bitrate spikes, disables qpel, gmc, limits bframes to 1 and a few other things. Probably your player is MKT or Zoran based though so you could use the MTK option and maybe gain some extra quality. Still has the HT VBV settings though to keep the bitrate in check. If the problem with CQM's then surely it would have effected all encodes?

[legionpc]

I just watched one of the episodes I encoded, and areas of solid black don't always display very well. Sometimes they appear to have a faint "tinge" of another colour.. is this a codec/player limitation or a setting I can fiddle with in XviD? Can't say I've ever really noticed it before, but given I encoded these files I guess it's possible I'm more actively seeking flaws in them :P

to clarify, they look fine on PC, just appear "off" on my standalone/TV.

[manono]

Hi-

is this a codec/player limitation or a setting I can fiddle with in XviD?

A codec limitation. You can give it more bitrate. Don't use adaptive quantisation. Calibrate your TV set. But it's pretty much an MPEG-4 problem.

[legionpc]

Hi-

is this a codec/player limitation or a setting I can fiddle with in XviD?

A codec limitation. You can give it more bitrate. Don't use adaptive quantisation. Calibrate your TV set. But it's pretty much an MPEG-4 problem.

Could the source material also play a part? I've never really noticed it before on other XviDs, encoded to the same filesize, with basically the same runtime (these weren't done by me though.)

[manono]

I forgot last time that you're using AutoGK. No adaptive quantisation. If it happens with some and not all, then I suspect low bitrate (as celtic_druid mentioned earlier). You haven't posted a log, given the resolution or the results of the compress test, or said if you're forcing a width, or have AutoGK set for Auto. All I can do is guess. It's very possible that low bitrate for the resolution (or, put another way, a high average quant), is the cause of it.

And I'd still calibrate the display f I were you. Run the TV through the THX Optimizer found on all Star Wars DVDs, as well as hundreds of other DVDs. Many TV sets have the brightness way too high. Since that controls the black levels, that by itself could be responsible.

Source material? I suppose. The Sopranos DVDs you're talking about? Dunno, as I've never had a look at them, but TV series DVDs often have too much material crammed in, and aren't usually of the same high quality as movie DVDs.

[legionpc]

Here's the log:

================================================== ==
[19/11/2006 8:33:56 PM] AutoGK 2.27
[19/11/2006 8:33:56 PM] OS: WinXP (5.1.2600).2
[19/11/2006 8:33:56 PM] Job started.
[19/11/2006 8:33:56 PM] Input file: L:\sv\2\VTS_01_0.IFO
[19/11/2006 8:33:56 PM] Output file: L:\sv\2\2.avi
[19/11/2006 8:33:56 PM] Output codec: XviD
[19/11/2006 8:33:56 PM] Audio 1: English AC3 2ch
[19/11/2006 8:33:56 PM] Subtitles: none
[19/11/2006 8:33:56 PM] Format: .AVI
[19/11/2006 8:33:56 PM] Target size: 350Mb
[19/11/2006 8:33:56 PM] Custom resolution settings: fixed width of 624 pixels
[19/11/2006 8:33:56 PM] Custom audio settings: VBR MP3 with average bitrate: 128Kbps
[19/11/2006 8:33:56 PM] Standalone support enabled: ESS
[19/11/2006 8:33:56 PM] Started encoding.
[19/11/2006 8:33:56 PM] Demuxing and indexing.
[19/11/2006 8:34:43 PM] Processing file: L:\sv\2\VTS_01_PGC_03_1.VOB
[19/11/2006 8:34:43 PM] Processing file: L:\sv\2\VTS_01_PGC_03_2.VOB
[19/11/2006 8:34:43 PM] Source resolution: 720x576
[19/11/2006 8:34:43 PM] Found PAL source.
[19/11/2006 8:34:43 PM] Source aspect ratio: 16:9
[19/11/2006 8:34:43 PM] Color correction enabled.
[19/11/2006 8:34:43 PM] Analyzing source.
[19/11/2006 8:36:16 PM] Source is considered to be progressive.
[19/11/2006 8:36:16 PM] Output will contain 62462 frames
[19/11/2006 8:36:16 PM] Decoding audio.
[19/11/2006 8:36:51 PM] Normalizing audio.
[19/11/2006 8:36:59 PM] Encoding audio.
[19/11/2006 8:41:26 PM] Audio1 size: 36,799,512 bytes (35.09 Mb)
[19/11/2006 8:41:26 PM] Overhead: 2,498,432 bytes (2.38 Mb)
[19/11/2006 8:41:26 PM] Video size: 327,703,656 bytes (312.52 Mb)
[19/11/2006 8:41:26 PM] Running compressibility test.
[19/11/2006 8:42:46 PM] Duration was: 1 minute, 19 seconds
[19/11/2006 8:42:46 PM] Speed was: 39.35 fps.
[19/11/2006 8:42:46 PM] Compressibility percentage is: 61.75
[19/11/2006 8:42:46 PM] Chosen resolution is: 624x352 ( AR: 1.77 )
[19/11/2006 8:42:46 PM] Predicted comptest value is: 61.75%
[19/11/2006 8:42:46 PM] Running first pass.
[19/11/2006 8:59:18 PM] Duration was: 16 minutes 32 seconds
[19/11/2006 8:59:18 PM] Speed was: 62.95 fps.
[19/11/2006 8:59:18 PM] Expected quality of first pass size: 63.63%
[19/11/2006 8:59:18 PM] Running second pass.
[19/11/2006 9:24:46 PM] Duration was: 25 minutes 27 seconds
[19/11/2006 9:24:46 PM] Speed was: 40.88 fps.
[19/11/2006 9:24:46 PM] Job finished. Total time: 50 minutes 50 seconds
================================================== ==

And sorry, should have mentioned. It was Sopranos before, this specific episode I watched was from Smallville season 1 though. I'll look into the display calibration thing though.

[manono]

Hehe, trying to emulate the scene releases, eh? 624x352 and 350 MB. The log is in order. Nothing out of the ordinary. You're sure the problem isn't in the source? That is, when you play the DVD, you don't see the same thing? It looks OK to me. A lot of people complain about the so-called "black blocks", or "dark blocks". I don't know that a solution has ever been found. Calibrate and then forget about it.

[legionpc]

Hehe, trying to emulate the scene releases, eh? 624x352 and 350 MB. The log is in order. Nothing out of the ordinary. You're sure the problem isn't in the source? That is, when you play the DVD, you don't see the same thing? It looks OK to me. A lot of people complain about the so-called "black blocks", or "dark blocks". I don't know that a solution has ever been found. Calibrate and then forget about it.

I played the DVD, the problem isn't there. Additionally I fired up TV out and watched the xvid on the same tv through that, the problem isn't there either. So it's something to do with the standalone obviously.. at the end of the test episode, the camera pans up into space before the credits, so it's black with dotted stars around. Large portions of the screen have a feint yellow tinge, and this is even more evident as it fades to the credits. However the problem disappears during the actual credits though.

It's quite annoying, moreso because I've never really seen it on other files so I don't like the fact that it's appearing on mine.

[manono]

Yeah, it does sound like you've narrowed it to the standalone, or some combination of the standalone and XviD settings. Do you have another player on which to test, or a friend's one nearby?

celtic_druid made a suggestion earlier about using AutoGK with MTK support turned on. I'm not sure I agree, because then you're back to using custom matrices, but it's worth a try.

[guns1inger]

I suspect you haven't paid as much attention before as it wasn't your work. I have seen avis created from DVD and also from HDTV source, and I have yet to see one that doesn't have these sorts of issues, even when given twice the size to play in that you are giving yours.

[legionpc]

Yeah, it does sound like you've narrowed it to the standalone, or some combination of the standalone and XviD settings. Do you have another player on which to test, or a friend's one nearby?

celtic_druid made a suggestion earlier about using AutoGK with MTK support turned on. I'm not sure I agree, because then you're back to using custom matrices, but it's worth a try.

Just tested, the proble is still there with MTK support instead of ESS.