New House rules?

[mats.hogberg]

First of all: Since this is Badrics place, everyone who here enter, are bound to follow the rules set up by him. This is the way it should be, and everyone who don't agree may leave.
One nice aspect of Baldrics forum is the OT area, where, just like in the coffee room here at work, any subject can be ventilated. In our coffee room, if someone isn't interested in the subject, or finds it controversial, he turns to someone else and brings up his own subject, or just dont participate in the discussion of this subject. Either way, these coffee room conversations builds community.
AFAIK, Baldric has not stipulated rules regarding not suitable subjects in the OT forum, but recently, person(s?) here at Baldrics place has started loudly complaining about OT subjects that they don't like, to the point where some moderator finds it necessary to shut down the conversation.
I find this most disturbing. Freedom of speech is essential - not just when you agree with what's spoken. Either it exists or it doesn't. You can't have a limited freedom of speech.
So, Baldric and moderators - what gives? Are there new posting rules coming up, or can any thread that some fundametalist find offensive (but doesn't violate any expressed forum rules) be shut down?

/Mats

[Will Hay]

Excellent post.
I guess it all revolves around the 'fine line', whereupon any topic is fine as long as it hasn't been created simply to offend.
The posts that do this are easily identifiable, and whilst I myself have participated in many off-topic threads (some of which are a little 'close to the bone'), I have complete faith that the current group of moderator's will close them for the right reasons.
If they close them for a shitty reason they'll hear about it from me, but I can honestly say in all the off-topic posts in which I've particiapted that have been locked, I feel they've all been locked for the right reasons.
There will always be members who complain at anything they find offensive, and dress it up as a concern for the rest of us ('how often do you watch porn' springs to mind, a great 'off-topic' tongue in cheek thread I've built friendly acquaintances from). This is rubbish, and these kind of people have some strange idea they'll be welcomed into the fold and offered a moderator position for their wonderful assistance in identifying these trouble-maker's...
....
I get the impression that the moderator's view these people as whiner's, insofar as they post four of five complaints in a space of two or three days. This to me simply suggests all they do is scan the forum looking for something to complain about.
Very sad.
The only stipulation I have is that these thread title's shouldn't appear on the front page (something Baldrick has already addressed), and that perhaps a popup appears when entering the off-topic forum that "the content may not always be connected with the theme of the site and at time may contain topic's of an adult nature".
Will

[rhegedus]

Whilst the ‘Off Topic’ forum often provides a humorous distraction whilst we’re busy encoding or whatever, there are multitudes of other internet sites that can cater for the same needs. The problem, to me, is that the ‘Off Topic’ area has become the ‘raison d’etre’ for many participants who either want to start a topic which they feel strongly about (and thus inevitably result in confrontation) or use the forum as a means of self-publicity.

I suppose, in a way, this has become inevitable since the initial purpose of this site, all things VCD, has shifted to DVD creation, something which has become all too easy with the advent of DVD2ONE and IC7 – does anyone discuss the intricacies of CCE, pros or cons of CBR vs VBR, or max/min/average bitrates anymore?

The problem is, is that by restricting the ‘Off Topic’ forum, some of the characters that bring a smile won’t post as often. But then not changing the forum will result in the continuation of discussion of topics that mean nothing to most visitors and a general shift away from the reason that brought us to this site in the first place.

[Will Hay]

I suppose, in a way, this has become inevitable since the initial purpose of this site, all things VCD, has shifted to DVD creation, something which has become all too easy with the advent of DVD2ONE and IC7 – does anyone discuss the intricacies of CCE, pros or cons of CBR vs VBR, or max/min/average bitrates anymore?

I'm not entirely sure what the pros and cons of contant and variable bitrates or indeed the finer points of CCE has to do with the advent and development of an 'off-topic' forum.
If people want to discuss these points they won't be influenced by the off topic forum.

The problem is, is that by restricting the ‘Off Topic’ forum, some of the characters that bring a smile won’t post as often. But then not changing the forum will result in the continuation of discussion of topics that mean nothing to most visitors and a general shift away from the reason that brought us to this site in the first place.

You are joking Rob?
Are you suggesting that you can see the day when the off-topic posts will outweigh the video posts?
I think the whole off-topic forum discussion is getting way out of hand, it's exactly that to me, a chance to smile and make a contribution to nothing in particular.
In response to your comment:

The problem is, is that by restricting the ‘Off Topic’ forum, some of the characters that bring a smile won’t post as often

You seem to be suggesting that by limiting the off-topic thread posts in will decrease in this area, yes?
If so, so what?
I detect you feel some of the regular contributor's to the off-topic forum do nothing to contribute to the theme of the site, and exhaust most of their energy in this worthless forum.
If this is the case then again, so what?
I spend more time in the video forum's as I do the off-topic, but I guess I post just as much in the off topic forum than the video threads and do you know why?
It's because I won't commit myself to assistance anywhere else unless I know exactly I'm correct in what I'm saying.
It's far too easy for well-meaning people to post complete shite in a genuine attempt to help other's, but what's the point?

who either want to start a topic which they feel strongly about (and thus inevitably result in confrontation) or use the forum as a means of self-publicity.

This is what moderator;s are for, you need to trust they can do the job Baldrick has set them, something I feel they do very well.
Oh, and Rob, all the above submitted on the basis of ...
...
Will

[Karate Media]

Mats--

I won't go into another "freedom of speech" speech again (I'll just say that only the gov't guarantees FOS, private individuals/companies do not have to follow this rule necessarily), but Baldrick has set up a modicum of OT rules here: https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=84274

No politics, no warez, and behave. That last one is interpretive -- "behave" as in "no flaming" or "behave" in a more general sense, e.g. "don't offend anyone"?

But lets widen the circle a little bit. One must assume that even OT posts must follow the General Rules set down here: https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=124514

"You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any applicable laws."

And the "report problem posts" thread states here: https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=119319

"To make our lives easier, it would be great if you could link to a thread / post you think may be problematic. This includes: (...) Any posts that break the rules set in the forums"

So, it looks like "Freedom of Speech" here at dvdrhelp is much like "FOS" in America -- Say what you like until somebody gets offended. America has FOS, but it also has obscenity laws (jeez, imagine if you'd been a contemporary of Lenny Bruce -- no internet and no sex talk!), hate speech laws, etc., etc. Silky said: "There will always be members who complain at anything they find offensive" -- but the rules say "don't post anything offensive" and, well, "offensive" is a fairly subjective term that is defined differently by different people.

I find it ironic that you yearn for Freedom of Speech, yet find it difficult to extend that same freedom to people who want to complain. As you said:

"Freedom of speech is essential - not just when you agree with what's spoken. Either it exists or it doesn't. You can't have a limited freedom of speech."

Shouldn't the complainers have their FOS as well?

And we all know who one of the persons you are speaking of is. And my one and only post in the "report problem posts" thread was a complaint about this person's complaint (which I was rightfully chastised for doing so by Baldrick). But I agree with that person's right to complain, especially in a thread specifically designed by a mod for such a purpose. And according to the General Rules of this site, those complaints were valid, and as Baldrick spefically stated: "Remember also that everyone are allowed to complain about any post....but it doesn't mean that we(admins and moderators) will remove or lock it."

My analogy is that an online forum is like a community, and the off-topic section is like a playground -- keeping the kids busy and the adults sane. I don't want to come off as "one of those newbies that comes along and tells us how to act" -- I really only have problems with posts that would damage the integrity and/or existance of this site (such as warez posts or explicity violent/misogynistic posts).

I don't really give a crap if people want to discuss pullin' their puds, saluting the flag, or even buttering the ham. But, ultimately, I also think that the complainers should have their say (and they have a thread for it too, just like the off-topic people). I don't disagree with some of your points, but your argument has fallacies...

Just my 2 cents (which I seem to stretch for quite some time, even in this age of inflation )

[mats.hogberg]

I've tried to refrain from replying in this thread - I've had my say, but when someone misunderstands me, I feel I must reply:
I find it ironic that you yearn for Freedom of Speech, yet find it difficult to extend that same freedom to people who want to complain. As you said:

"Freedom of speech is essential - not just when you agree with what's spoken. Either it exists or it doesn't. You can't have a limited freedom of speech."

Shouldn't the complainers have their FOS as well?

But of course! I'm not shutting down threads! Let the complainers complain all they want - in their own thread that I wont read.

I wasn't aware of (nor understand) the banning of

obscene, vulgar, ... , sexually-orientated

"material". However, now that I am aware of it, I have a better understanding of why some of the OT threads where closed, even if I don't agree. As many, including I have pointed out, this is Baldrics place, and by entering here we are bound by his rules.

/Mats

[Baldrick]

Please don't crosss post.

continue here https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=157520