paying for basic and getting extended basic cable

[macleod]

I have a question and I was wanting to get peoples' opinions. Here goes:

In the last 3 states that I have lived in, I would call up the local cable company (all three states were different). Anyway, I would call them up and ask for basic cable. Basic cable is the stations that you would normally receive with "rabbit ears" and then a few more like CNN and stuff like that. The cost for basic cable is around $10.

EACH time I received cable, however, I would actually get extended basic, which is around 70'ish channels (less pay per stuff and HOB, max, etc.).

I tell people about this and say that it is illegal (I just think they are envious ). Personally, I dont have a problem with it (in case anyone wanted to know ), but I was wondering what 1) the legal opinion on this is, and 2)what are the personal feelings on this. I may even do a poll.

[dbaker6165]

well i know in cincinnati ohio "basic cable" is about 70 channels which is about 30 - 50 bux a months... there is a 10-15 dollar option of cable that is called "life-line" which only offer about 20 channels.... these are the channels usually you would get for free.

[rhegedus]

What does it say (i.e. 'package' name) on your bill?

Your response should be according to the bill: if they itemise the 'extended' package and charge for the basic one then, IMHO, they know about the mistake and it's not your responsibility (just enjoy ), but if they only itemise the basic package then it could be said to be an error for which you are responsible for correcting. After all, if they billed you double for something, you'd complain soon enough (I would )

Regards,

Rob

[macleod]

Have you or do you know of anyone that has ordered "life-line" cable and received basic? I have told a number of people about this and they all have tried it (some have even had extended basic and then "downgraded" to basic).

What are your thoughts on saying you want basic and then getting extended basic???

[SLICK RICK]

I guess it would all depend on how are you getting those extra channels

[marisag427]

Some cable companies' basic is about 70 channels so verify what you are allowed to get.

That said, regardless of anyone's opinion, it is still illegal. And the consequences for getting caught are extremely high! very high fines and also prison time. I believe it is a federal crime to steal cable.

That said, it's up to you to decide if you're willing to pay the consequences.

I once spoke to a cable serviceman who said they can actually tell what you watch and how long you watch stuff, even what you tape! from their facilities. But most times they are too busy or it's too costly to follow-up on theft.

[kingjake99]

They won't arrest you for this. :P Even if you buy an illegal cable box all they will do is fine you. I am not sure in this case though - all you need to do is play dumb. Then say "well I asked for basic cable! who screwed up my tv!"

[adam]

Since its their mistake, yes it is highly unlikely that criminal charges would be pressed against you, but that doesn't mean they can't file civil charges. Its called unjust enrichment. They are, unwillingingly, giving you something of value without you paying for it. If they find out then they potentially could sue you for backpay of the service for as long as you have had it. Legality aside, if you enjoy the service you really should pay for it.

[MOVIEGEEK]

I have Comcast...no... AT&T...no...Comcast In the past 3 years my cable co. has changed 3 times and I have "Standard Cable"which includes
basic,standard & extended and it's $39.74+digital converter$10.25=$49.99
I don't have a choice anymore to get analog or basic only service,the cable business is a monopoly and should be charged with anti-trust in US Federal Court!

[Gazorgan]

Having been a Cable Engineer for 6 years, I know a few things.

First of all 'Basic' cable is a government regulatory requirement; It has public access and local channels. No one actually gets it, it's just there. The requirements state you must be able to get these without a cable box(that makes it 12 channels) and unscrambled.

'Extended' Basic tends to be 'Basic' plus the cheap (the Cable company pays per subscriber for each channel) channels. Typically this are superstations and the 'Ted Turner' bundle (real cheap). You will need a cable box or a cable ready TV for these. These are typically not scrambled.

'Premium' channels are typically HBO or Showtime. These are nearly always scrambled. Pay Per View falls into this category.


Now, if you have a cable modem, you also can get 'Extended' basic service by default (hint hint). However, you can not simply put a splitter in you cable and hook up your TV. Your cable company has the right to charge you for each drop you have (typically $1). They can also charge you for each TV/VCR you hookup (typically 1/2 of Extended Basic service).

Yes, the cable company can tell what you have hooked up, with the use of a little black box. This requires a technician to discnnect your cable to test it, and yes, it can be blocked. However, if you have cable and pay for it, the odds of the cable company doing this test are virtually zero.

If you go up the pole (or open the ground enclosure) and hook yourself up, then you will get caught, this is called theft of service, and it can be a felony in the US($$$ involved). Same thing applies to 'opening up' your cable modem. Cable companies perform this 'Audit' typically 1/year, sometimes more or less.

My 'Basic' cable gets me about 60 channels. I hardly ever watch Showtime (my wife does) or any other scrambled channels. I have 7 drops and 5 devices hooked up (not easy with the signal levels in my area).

[JamesB69]

Macleod, are you using a descrambler or something. If not then i wouldnt worry about it.

[Gazorgan]

For reference, cable companies are not monopolies, they are franchises. You local government, not FED, has regulatory control. Why else is there a dedicated channel for government access? I have the option of 2 different cable comapnies. That means neither on makes money, it's expensive to run a cable comapny!

[macleod]

I think some people are getting the wrong idea about my setup. I do not have a converter, descrambler, NOTHING out of the ordinary!!!!! I call the cable company and say, I want basic cable ($10). They service person says, "well, for $30 more, you can get extended basic which gives you TNT,TNN,MTV,Sci-fi,HGTV, etc. For an additional $X a month, you can get preimium channels like showtime, Max, Stars, etc.". I tell the rep, "no, I just want basic cable". The guy comes out and I magically have extended basic (I do not pay the guy $$$ or sleep with him or anything). My guess is the cable guy just puts extended basic on there on his own.

I am not climbing a pole, digging up other peoples' cable, using a computer descrambler or anything outright illegal. It is me saying (and being charged for basic) that I want basic, however, getting extended basic.

Its interesting to hear what everyones' opinions are on the subject. My moral compass is set pretty good for me (I have had basic cable for 8 years).

[Nelson37]

If you have, IN WRITING, your request for basic cable, and the cable company installed your service, you are in the clear. It is not your responsibility to determine what you have and have not been given, particularly when the options and variations are not clearly understandable.

If you order a Yugo and get a Cadillac, any reasonable person would understand the difference and would be obligated to correct the error. If however, you ordered a 5-liter engine and got a 6-liter marked as a 5, you could not reasonably be expected to be able to determine the difference. I get an offer of a new cable "plan" about every 2-3 months, often when I call, the cable people are unclear on what the options are. How can the average consumer be expected to know precisely what they are supposed to be getting?

It is not what you DO know, or even SHOULD know. It is what could you be REASONABLY EXPECTED to know.

[alucard2050]

Get Satellite.. I have a cable modem and for a period of time i was also getting their service of all channels except the scrambled ones...i guess you would call that the extended service...anyway, i wasn't supposed to have the channels just the internet....after about 3 months i had a notice on my door stateing that i was recieving service that i was not paying for and that it had been disconnected....but, they left my internet line going....i wouldn't worry about it...alot of times the cable guys forget to put a block on certain things when their in the outside boxes or something like that.....one time i called to have my service disconnected.. they came and did that then after they left they forgot to shut it off at the box...all they did was disconnect the line from the side of my house..i don't know why? all i had to do was reconnect the line but i only did that for a day...i thought to myself if i did that then they might bust me..........

[txpharoah]

Few things I see here.

1. You ordered Product A and they gave you Product B. Their fault. No criminal charges. It may be unintentional theft of service, but my call would be a judge throwing it out before trial. It's too piss-ant to bring to court. They have real crimes to deal with, if this even fits the description of a crime. Then again, they could be seen as pulling a bait-n-switch.

2. You have extras. You may or may NOT know about them. This is a civil matter, and would most likely cost the cable company more money to sue you than what they would reclaim in costs. They'd just shut you off to what you deserve. It is their responsibility to provide the burden of proof that you know the difference between Product A and Product B. It's not easy.

3. This one is unlikely, but I'll say it anyway: Remember, all companies have the right to refuse customers. If they just shut you off, and everything ended on an angry note, odds are, you'd no longer be a customer. They can tell you go take a flying leap. No problem, just get another cable company or satellite, or just go back to the old days of broadcast.

4. In the end, enjoy it while it lasts. My experience on this is that the cable company will find it and shut it off. Worst I've ever seen is an angry letter to the freeloader if they believe that you had a free connection. More likely though, is they send you a coupon to jion them since you've enjoyed their "free preview". They don't want to admit to mistake after all. Looks bad on the books at the end of the fiscal year.

This is mostly my educated opinion here, this runs off from media law and more into other areas. I'm even having a hard time pinpointing exactly what kind of legal matter this would be, probably telecom laws, which are getting less clear-cut these days.

If you are a student or work for a large company, you usually have access to a free lawyer. Spend 5 minutes with one.

I think they'll all tell you to write a postcard or make a phonecall to the cable company about their mistake. But then again, that's assuming you REALLY KNOW you're getting too much.

I wouldn't worry about it. I've seen this all the time, always ends up getting shut off, with either an angry letter or invitation to jion them, as I said above.

Sorry so long. I type a lot.

[defense]

@MATLOCK, lol....that's all I can say....lmao


@Macleod, you must be fine as coveted wine if you are gettin' all those services free CONSTANTLY. I can understand a screw up, but you have had this happen in THREE different states? Down here mistakes don't happen often, and damn sure, not that often. That's really odd and pretty surprising that in three different states you have gotten "extended" basic.

[macleod]

thanks for everyone's feedback on this. I like to look at the reasonable person theory. I, personally, wouldn't (as I mentioned, this has happened in 3 states and I've "done it" in 3 different states, Missouri, Michigan, and Texas).

There is the good ole' textbook version of what is right and wrong and then there is the real world. My moral compass points to "wahoo, I am getting something for nothing" with the justification of, "crap, there is nothing on TV, lets watch one of my many "backed up DVD's".

From the human standpoint, seems like a few folks are saying, wahooo, got something for free, while others are taking that moral high ground (damn you folks )

TXpharoah. As far as the 5 minutes with our legal department to discuss, I do not have a high confidence in our legal department. I work in the mortgage industry and have a hard enough time explaining how we are not bound by the FDCPA......long story. I know that I have a duty to report this to the cable company, but I couldn't even imagine the result of the cable company suing a person under these circumstances.

Using my devious (is that even spelled right) mind, I am also thinking that the cable company does this to make sure that you don't switch to the dish or other company. If you think about it, youy are never going to switch no matter what because you have a great deal with the cable company. If i tell myself that enough times, I'll believe it.

Does anyone out there have trully basic cable (10-15 channels). For a time, I did not even think they even put that on, I just figured that people didnt know better to ask for basic!?!?!?!?

[zzyzzx]

Using my devious (is that even spelled right) mind, I am also thinking that the cable company does this to make sure that you don't switch to the dish or other company. If you think about it, youy are never going to switch no matter what because you have a great deal with the cable company. If i tell myself that enough times, I'll believe it.

Does anyone out there have trully basic cable (10-15 channels). For a time, I did not even think they even put that on, I just figured that people didnt know better to ask for basic!?!?!?!?

I do. Comcast cable here in Prince Georges County, MD just "upgraded" their system and the only thing you can get on analog cable is your basic stuff. If you want more you have to go digital and get one of their tuners and pay $~50/month ($40 + nusiance taxes and cable box rental). Basically it's a scam to get you to "upgrade" to their grainy digital signal. Personally if I move closer to either Baltimore or Washington I'll drop cable altogather and just use my antenna.

I don't think Comcast realizes that a dish costs the same and provides a much better signal, or that not everyone is willing to pay 40-50/month for TV? They are coming across like DSL and cable internet providers (and AOL) who think that they can advertising is the key to increasing their market instead of pricing.

[Greg12]

zzyzzx, i didn't know u lived in PG.

All i need on cable i get from analog.

[tgpo]

I personnaly think that it is wrong and if I were put in that situation I would inform the cable company of the situation. Even if they took it away it would be okay...it's not like there is anything worth watching on it anyway.

[Doggiedaddy]

I don't **** care!!!!!!!!!! What the hell difference does it make anyway? I have Dish Network [Satellite] with a million channels that cost me an arm and a leg each month but still if I had to guess we both have the same options to watch 00000. TV SUCKS [My kids won't let me torch it]

Sorry, I guess I really hate TV!
Dd

[zzyzzx]

When I said all I get is basic cable above I'm referring to just the stuff you can get with an antenna plus the weather channel and some local college channels and spanish channels. Not TBS/TNT/AMC/Comedy Central, etc.

[sammie]

I usually have the same deal, get cable for modem service and local channels then use Direct TV. When I pointed it out to the service technician one time that I was getting more than just the "basic" channels, his comment was it was that the filters they used to block chunks of channels were very imperfect. The cable company knows about it and it just isn't worth worrying about (don't expect them to troubleshoot if you have a problem with one of the freebies). It's also one of the many reasons they are pushing the digital cable, they can control things a lot easier and a lot more effectively.

@Gazorgan. If you've worked for the cable company, maybe you can enlighten me as to why the party line there (3 states, 3 companies so I think the issue is generic) is always that it must be the wiring in your house? No mater how obvious it is that it isn't. It sometimes seems like the tech service scripts they go through are intended to infuriate their customers.