Plucked from ALT.Video.dvd

[Marco33]

From the Digital Bits.....

I feel a rant coming on and I've just got to let it fly. So indulge me
if you will. You Gen-Xers will understand this. You Gen-Y and Z guys
just hang tight for a minute okay?

I wanted to comment on a story that's been posted at Ain't it Cool
News this morning (also reported on The Force.net). Star Wars creator
George Lucas appeared last night at the Egyptian Theater in Hollywood
in honor of the opening night of a week-long tribute to ILM and
Skywalker Sound by the American Cinematheque. According to many that
were there, Lucas reportedly confirmed that the original theatrical
versions of the Star Wars movies (as we all remember them from 1977,
1980 and 1983), will never appear on DVD. They're lost to time,
replaced by his new and still-in-development ultimate, final "super
special editions". The outraged reaction from fans is, of course,
predictable... and entirely justified.

This plan isn't particularly new - Lucas has vaguely (and not so
vaguely) hinted several times in recent years that this was his
intent. But if that turns out to be his final decision, the result
would be that the original experience that captured the imaginations
of an entire generation of moviegoers would be lost forever. How can
that make any Star Wars fan anything but sad... and absolutely,
downright, steaming, pissed-off angry. Given the almost complete lack
of charm the new prequels have compared to even the first edit of the
rough-hewn, original film, the fact that Lucas would fail to preserve
the original experience of Star Wars shows how utterly and completely
he's lost sight of the point over the years.

Filmmakers have a responsibility to their audience and to cinema
history. Lucas owes it to every single Star Wars fan that ever paid $5
for an action figure or $8 for a theater ticket to preserve the
original experience. I don't care if he doesn't like them. We love
them. I don't care if he owns them. In a equally real and important
way, we own them too. They're part of our childhood! Steven Spielberg
understood the importance of saving the original version of E.T.,
including it on DVD recently along with his "better" 2002 version.
Lucas needs to follow his lead.

You might have built the Empire, George... but your fans paid for it.
While you're making us wait for YEARS for these fabled super-boffo
special editions of the original films on DVD, WHY IN THE HELL don't
you release a set of movie-only DVDs of the original theatrical
versions of the films?!! Every Star Wars fan on Earth would gladly
shell out their hard-earned cash for the original versions now. And
then, in 3 years or 5 years, they'd all be happy to buy the
super-deluxe versions too!

If you have the gall to tell me that these films that were so much a
part of my childhood don't exist as I remember them anymore, that's
just fine. But then I want my childhood back. I want a refund for
every movie ticket, every poster, every T-shirt, every book, every
piece-of-crap action figure and every single God-damned bubble-gum
card I ever bought as a kid. I'll send you the bill.

I'll tell you this: I WILL NEVER BUY A DVD OF THESE FILMS THAT DOESN'T
INCLUDE THE ORIGINAL VERSIONS. I WON'T EVER REVIEW IT. I WON'T EVEN
GIVE IT SO MUCH AS A GLANCE. If you're a fan and you're reading this
right now and feel the same, you should speak out. Write letters, make
phone calls, send e-mails... let George know exactly how you feel.

But as for me.... whatever. I've been a fan of Star Wars since I first
saw it in 1977 as a fresh-faced, 10-year-old. It's been much more than
a movie for me - it opened my eyes and fired my imagination. But I am
SO done with it. What charm was left for me is finally gone. Lucas has
officially killed it. I've been trying to hang with these new films,
and have even defended them in my reviews of the DVDs. But now... you
can finally count me out.

[MOVIEGEEK]

Well said Marco33,
I think Lucas is addicted to computerized F/X.I would rather watch one of Jim Hensons' quirky puppets than some oversampled ILM creation.
I equate George Lucas to Michael Jackson,20 years ago they were geniuses and on top of the world.....now they are pathetic souls filled with insecurity and arrogance.

[BJ_M]

Well said Marco33,
I think Lucas is addicted to computerized F/X.I would rather watch one of Jim Hensons' quirky puppets than some oversampled ILM creation.

Labyrinth -- great film ... http://us.imdb.com/Title?0091369


(trivia - Cheryl McFadden, one of the choreographers, also goes by the name Gates McFadden. Gates McFadden plays Dr. Beverly Crusher in the TV series "Star Trek: The Next Generation" and in the Star Trek movies featuring the Next Generation cast.)

[adam]

Let me get this straight, did Lucas say he will never rerelease the trilogy at all, or just not on DVD? Everything I have ever read has said that the whole reason they haven't been released on DVD yet is because Lucas was waiting for the next big breakthrough in technology. Essentially he didn't think the DVD format could do his trilogy justice. I highly doubt that he is saying he will never release them in any other format other than the existing VHS tapes. Whatever you think about Lucas he's not stupid, even with his billion dollar empire he is not going to pass up releasing 3 of the most popular movies of all time in some format or another...is he?

If you want a good Jim Henson muppet movie than watch the Dark Crystal. I got it in a double pack with the Labrinth, best set I ever bought.

[mikk]

shows how utterly and completely he's lost sight of the point over the years

That just about sums it all up.

The Michael Jackson/George Lucas thing is true too. Both of them are just sad shadows of their former selves.

[RabidDog]

GROW UP ... get a life.. its just a friggin film not even very good at that.. I think stars wars always was childish and this just confirms it.

[BodyMaker]

IMO- When the revamped the original and replaced Jaba-The-Hut with computer graphics they ruined it

Its not how it was meant to be

same goes for ET

[Marco33]

Let me get this straight, did Lucas say he will never rerelease the trilogy at all, or just not on DVD?

No Adam, I think he will just release the SE version.

[MOVIEGEEK]

GROW UP ... get a life.. its just a friggin film not even very good at that.. I think stars wars always was childish and this just confirms it.

What if Ted Turner decided to put computerized F/X in "The Wizard of OZ"
or "Gone with the Wind"?Would that be allright?

[Marco33]

Anybody have or is interested in where to get the originals on disk?

[Faceman101]

Buy the original on Laserdisc, cap them to whatever format you want.

A friend of mine has the originals on LD, he plans on buying a DVD recorder once they come down in price (not the comp drive), and cap away onto DVD.

It is bullshit how they won't come on DVD, more bullshit is how Guido shot first.

[Marco33]

I found a site that has the originals. 2 actualy. Still doing some digging.

Gredo shot first... blasphemy!

[mpb]

From the Digital Bits.....

I feel a rant coming on and I've just got to let it fly. So indulge me
if you will. You Gen-Xers will understand this. You Gen-Y and Z guys
just hang tight for a minute okay?

This guy needs to RTFA. The original trilogy WILL be out on DVD, but it will be the Special Edition versions. This is FINE. The SE's, especially ESB, show the scenes the way we remember them, not the way they really Were. I have the Definitive Collection Laserdisc box set of the pre-SE trilogy, and it's gaspingly obvious when a bad matte shot or effect is shown on screen. It completely ruins suspension of disbelief. It's true that Jabba the Hutt in ANH looks overdigital, but he's the exception to the rule: the cleanup work on the SE versions overall is outstanding. The Battle of Hoth is particularly tremendous in overall visual improvement.

Having said that, I do agree that it's a travesty of monolith proportions that they had GREEDO shooting first. Crap, the whole reason Han Solo was a badass was because HE actually shot first!!! hrug:

Plus they shot new film recently of Natalie Portman so that she could be added to the Ghost Lineup at the end of ROTJ, along side Anakin, Yoda, and Ben.

[Marco33]

Actualy, I plucked that whole thing from the news groups.

I didn't write it.

They may have fixed the matting and I don't mind seeing new scenes. It's when they screw with scenes we are used to.

[adam]

Oh they are just the SE versions, I have no problem with that. Most of the changes were actually good. Digitally resampling never hurts.

Ok the Jabba scene is terrible. I remember seeing that in the theatres and it felt very weird, but the greedo scene doesn't really bother me. I was more upset that the scene with Greedo as a child was removed from Ep. I. I thought that was funny.

What I don't understand is, how did Jabba get so fat in between ep. 4 (SE) and 6?

[musher70]

Georgies just a F@#$%^& hold-out, why oh why, has he not
released them yet? no one knows, the young ones, who grew
up on them are getting old now, some even dying, studios
always promising to release em, but just like indiana jones
saga, we probably wont see them for awhile, hope indy 4
isn't a prequel or well be s#$ out of luck...

By the way, what happened to "HOWARD the Duck"? anyone
know where to get a digital copy of that, from 86 i think,with
Lea Thompson?great soundtrack for its day....

[Conquest10]

ep 4 and 6 are years apart. in 6 he seems more lazy than in 4 so he could have gained massive amounts of weight if he just sat and ate and ate.
i like what they did in ESB. if you look at the original, you can see the ships on Hoth look fake. it looks like they traced around them in black marker. in the SE they look more realistic.
i feel as though the SE are good if you only go through and make the visuals more impressive as well as the audio. but if you go and start changing the storyline and plot, then thats wrong. the jabba scene could have been a little better, but take into account that when they did it special effects were not like the matrix yet. think jurassic park.

[C53248]

I saw those matte boxes around the fighters when I got the trilogy on VHS. I remember when that set was advertised (and also on the tape)there was something that sounded like a warning, "One... Last... Time".

I think it makes sense to clean up some technical imperfections like the matte being blacker than space. To me, that falls almost in the same range as cleaning up scratches and faded color in a digital restoration. But I find it disturbing (almost in a creepy, sick kind of way) that Lucas is continuing to shoot and edit these films so long after they've been established. Leave them alone, George! At least let us watch the unmolested originals as another title or disc in the package.

When I saw A New Hope in the improved form in the theater, I was a bit disgusted. The digital effects do not blend in with the rest. Even if, visually, they digitally blend it perfectly, it doesn't fit aesthetically. It loses the character of the original. Much of the character of the film comes from the means used to create it. Someone mentioned losing the suspension of disbelief seeing the matte. I understand that. But for me, seeing the digital inserts is MUCH worse than that. Suddenly I stop caring whether the storm troopers are catching up with Luke, because I'm caught up with George's digital adventures and why he didn't think the landscape was sufficiently populated with creatures the first time and how many did he add - I'm not watching Luke, I'm watching George. And where does it stop? Maybe Luke can get a new hair style? It's just not right. Save the new stuff for the new movies. I think for everyone who sees Natalie with the other ghosts and thinks, "ah, yeah, that makes sense" there will be many others like me thinking , "What the... oh, come on!", and feel that it's been ruined.

[C53248]

Solution: Capture the old VHS tapes, spend a week encoding, and burn myself a trilogy DVD that won't degrade like tape. If I use a low enough bitrate, maybe the matte cutouts will get lost in all the blockiness. But then, I don't want to watch them that badly.

[Marco33]

I've read that they will film extra scenes during shooting of episode 3. These will be of Natali Portman to be imported into ROTJ. Maybe during a flashback when Leia tells Luke about her mom.

Maybe if we are lucky, he will import some Ja Ja. BLEeCH!

Casting is already finished for the 3rd film. There is non. Everybody will be CGI.

I loved the old days. When the actors moved the story not the graphics.

[Faceman101]

Yes, GREEDO (knew my spelling was off).

I was more upset that the scene with Greedo as a child was removed from Ep. I. I thought that was funny.

When was it removed? As you can tell, I'm not up to date on my SW's knownledge.

[pacmania_2001]

Greedo (as a kid) was removed from Episode 1 in the initial editing. It only appears as a deleted scene on the DVD of Phantom Menace.

As for the Natalie Portman in ROTJ I thought those rumours were debunked ages ago by Natalie Portman as well as various other ILM/Lucas Film staff.

I personally prefer the updated special effects of the SE versions but really dont mind what ever version comes out on DVD as long as the quality surpasses the official VCD trilogy set I have.

[adam]

The scene shows Greedo as a kid fighting with Anakin. Qui Gon breaks it up and one of the on looking kids says, "Greedo, one of these days you're gonna get it." (Something like that, I don't feel like breaking out the DVD.) It was a short little scene and I thought it was funny. It gave Greedo more personality.

[vhelp]

morning all.

Greedo (as a kid) was removed from Episode 1 in the initial editing. It only appears as a deleted scene on the DVD of Phantom Menace.

wow. I gotta check this out. I don't always get the chance to check
out those deleted scenes as often anymore.

-vhelp

[Faceman101]

Ah thanks guys, b.c I do remember a scene with that little guy at the racing. I'll check my bro's DVD for that scene.

[Thorn]

Does anyone know how close to the original the pre-se trilogy on VHS is? Or if it's the same as the laserdisc versions, besides the quality difference? I may convert my vhs set to DVD so I have those versions too.

I'm a little disappointed that the original versions won't be on disc too, because in this day there's no reason whatsoever not to include multiple versions in DVD sets. You could probably even put all 3 of the original versions on one DVD-9 and include it as a bonus disc, and the fans would appreciate it.

[130T|_|L15/\/\]

I still have my Star Wars LaserDiscs!!! If the Special special edition of 4,5, and 6 removes the bloopers I would be disapointed. The Scene in AHW where the Stormtrooper bonks his head on the low quarter door was funny. Even when the mousey alien hits her chin with the cup, or when Vader's lightsabre lost its shine.

[sullen]

What I can't figure out in this whole scenario is that George is greedy to a point. SW has been released on two different formats and about 9 different versions with the Laserdisk THX versions being the most clean pre-SE versions. They are the ones that have a Stormtrooper, Vader, and Yoda on the fronts. I don't own that set, but do own the Ultimate Edition box set. Go to Ebay and look how much a bootleg set of 4,5, and 6 go for. Most sets are the 5 Star SE versions. Rarely do these go for less than $45. George is losing MILLIONS to bootleggers and yet he is so against piracy. If piracy was such a concern why doesn't someone over at Lucasfilm put a cap in Ebay's ass for letting all of these bootlegs sell? The demand is there, but the insanity of Lucas keeps us from what we want. I love Star Wars, but I just can not understand. Oh, and someone has done a proper transfer of at least some of Star Wars to DVD because when The Magic of Myth SW exhibit was in Brooklyn last summer they were using DVDs to show the clips of the movies in parts of the exhibits. In this department I liken Lucas to Bill Gates in his domination of what he feels he can get a way with.

[Marco33]

I saw a E-bay sale.

Star Wars Original trilogy DVD going for $160.

That was the only one I saw of the original trilogy.

Been surfing like a fool for a week straight. Found 7 web sites where you can get the SE version no problem. Still can't find the original trilogy.

What would it take to get some lacky at ILM to transfer the original trilogy to dvd and mass produce it. It boggles the mind.

[Thorn]

At one point there were Malaysian retailers selling the original trilogy on DVD (and I think they were just caps from the laserdisc editions) for about $45... unfortunately they were sold out or no longer selling by the time I followed the link to them.

No, it does not take a lot to make a crappy DVD. I got an old Jackie Chan movie on DVD for $3 new... it looked like someone just took a vhs tape and capped direct to mpeg2 and authored it with a 15-minute menu (judging by the scanline at the top and the poor quality). All the same, it was $3! As most people can attest to here, DVD authoring is not that hard to do even moderately well. The 3d effects and motion in the professional arena, but then again we're not asking for all that irrelevant crap!!! We just want the movie.

Anyway, no one's saying it's too much work, George is just saying he's forgotten what really made the original worthwhile - the cheese and the honesty of it. The SE looses some charm, and we know Lucas only wants to release that one because his only concern is making money off of the new generation with some cash to burn. He has no concern for the true fans because we're apparently not impulsive buyers enough to justify his attention.