Virtualdub 2:1 reduction for 1/2 hour video?

[Georgeo57]

For the best quality 1/2 hour VCD, capturing with PicVideo at 640x480, should I use the 2:1 reduction filter in Virtualdub? ( is it necessary or can I get a better image without it - why should I use it?)

Also, is a sharpening filter enough to get the sharpest image, or should I use Graft's unmasking plugin to get the best possible clarity?

[Sartori]

For best quality , (if you have the hd space) use the HuffyUv codec (which captures losslessly). But a lot of my stuff is very good at even greater comp. levels , now I have 120 gig to play with , comp`ing it doesn`t really matter so much now . Even with my space (and 7200rpm) and a 2.1 processer , it would drop frames without compression (this was capturing at 704x576).

[Georgeo57]

Thanks for the advice. I downloaded and tried to use the HuffyuV codec, but I only have about 8.5 GB of hard drive space, and it wasn't enough to capture 1/2 hour of video.

Since I'm stuck using PicVideo for a while, I would still like to know if I should use Virtualdub's 2:1 reduction filter. Someone recommended it, but I should have enough hard drive to save my edited video without using it, and I'm not really sure why its recommended except for saving drive space.

[Sartori]

In that case , if its a tv program with ads , capture it in 2 x 15 min captures (if you want the very best cap) . Or use the Picvideo codec to capture at the best it will allow , position 20 if you can , but I think as I recall it`ll probably need 19 to fit it on . (the 2:1 reduction filter is just that - a filter , for use for postprocessing) . Whats your intended output - mpeg1 , mpeg2 , divx ?

Remember if its the best quality you want , even if its not a tv prog with ads , capture it in 2 , and each capture overlaps the other .
1.Capture first half
2. frameserve it to an exact scenechange
3.encode it to mpg or whatever
4.Delete big avi number 1
5.Capture 2nd half overlapping first capture
6.frameserve that from the frame after the one you last ended on
4.encode to same settings , same cropping , bitrate etc
5.Delete big avi number 2
6.join the 2 mpgs or divxs together .

[Georgeo57]

Thanks again.

My friend and I do a TV cable show, so the source is a vhs tape. I've been using PicVideo at 18 because that setting was recommended on the Virtualdub website, and it seems to work well. I'd like to make copies of one of the shows and send them to a some people, so I think I should make VCDs instead of SVCDs because they work with more DVD players.

Your advice and directions for splitting the video in two sounded great, but I'm really new to all of this, and I have no idea how to work with frameservers, etc., so I think I'll settle for the quality that I'm getting with the PicVideo capture.

I thought the 2:1 reduction filter would improve the image quality because I read a recommendation for it somewhere, but I guess you're saying that it might not be necessary or helpful.

One last question; Since the video is already compressed by PicVideo, after I edit the image, should I compress it with MPEG-4, version1, or will I get a better image if I save the final clip uncompressed? - If so I'm gonna need to figure out how to set keyframes because I read that the MPEG-4 codec does that automatically

[Georgeo57]

It must sound like I hardly know what I'm doing, but I just read some more about keyframes and I'm thinking that since I plan to do no editing except adding some filters and deleting the very beginning, it would be better to not have any keyframes at all, or is that something that doesn't have anything to do with image quality anyway?

[Sartori]

The setting for picvideo is important in that really you want it to be the biggest you can that will fit into the space you have . I have fitted an hour into 4gig(1 hours recording) before now with acceptable results .
If the tape is of good quality picture , then for a vcd final product (of very acceptable results) , then capture at 352 x 240 (is that vcd for ntsc?) . This should allow you to increase the picvideo setting (I can`t remember if 19/20 will capture 1/2 hr at 352 x 240 ) . You basically want your avi video to be around 4 gig in size - the maximum size on a fat32 disk ( you can get more on but it involves frameserving then).
You basically want the minimum amount of compression when capturing , to give you the best picture for your encoder to encode with .

The advantage of frameserving is that you don`t save it after filtering it , ie to use an analogy - you making a copy of a copy , thereby decreasing the quality further . This is mostly if you wish to do some fading (which vdub can do with a filter) and postprocessing of the picture .

But if all you wish to do is crop the start or cut bits out , then if you are using tmpgenc to encode , just set the range at the start , then just fade in the sound on the sound setting and make a vcd compliant mpeg1 from the 4gig file , there are cutting buttons in tmpgenc as well to cut bits out .

It depends what filters you want as to whether you`d need to introduce frameserving into the equation or not .

I`d forget keyframes , I mentioned scenechanges in the context of an easily notable position in the avi video to cut them , as opposed to a keyframe , which would be the same point but in an mpeg file ( I`ll stop there , its getting to techy )

Please note , this is slightly different from my first advice which was for bestest quality . The above is for very acceptable quality , which does depend on the quality of the tape ( if my source is poor , I capture maximum quality and start from there) .

To bullet point what I`ve written , so I can extract the points from my waffle.

1.capture at 352 x 240
2.with a picvideo setting that makes the avi reach a size of a max of 4 gig (once you`ve worked this out , you`ll have it for next time )
3.unless you need vdubs filters , use tmpgenc to crop , cut and process
4.load into tmpgenc , set cut points etc
5.finished mpeg


If you wish to use vdubs filters , I have a easy to follow frameserving guide if you want it.

[Sartori]

Thinking about it , if you`re capping at 352 x 240 , you should be able to use huffy uv . The use of pic video does have a slight blending feature to it which can be an advantage though .

[whytless physh]

Ah, Georgeo57....

OK dude, this is what you need to do:

1.0 Ask yourself if you really need VCDs or will VHS tapes suffice. If it's just a question of "K3w1n355", don't bother. If you think the quality will be better on the VCD then think again. Almost any tape can be viewed in practically every VCR but you'd be lucky to find 60% of DVDs out there that play VCDs.

2.0 If you really need VCDs or simply what to pursue this as an intellectual challenge, what you need can be found here: http://www.pegasys-inc.com/e_main.html. The product is called TMPGEnc Plus. Buy it. It is an indispensable tool in any video editing system. You can download it right from the site, click on the "Buy" hotlink at the top of any page and have the registration key within a few minutes. DO IT!

2.1 TECHNICAL STUFF: The reason you need TMPGEnc is that it produces MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 encoded files with very little muss or fuss. You have files encoded with PICVideo. Those are known as M-JPEG or "Motion-JPEG" files. They are not compatible with any VCD, SVCD, XVCD or DVD format and so have to be converted to an MPEG format. That's where TMPGEnc comes into the picture.

3.0 Start looking at the guides on VCDHelp.com on how to create a VCD using TMPGEnc and the burning software of your choice. Another advantage to TMPGEnc is that it's used by most of the video ripping-editing-production community at one time or another so finding out how to do something with it is very easy.

4.0 Ask more questions if you get stuck. There are people using this forum who could probably hand-chisel the pits into a DVD platter and re-create "The Matrix" blindfolded.

You are obviously an intelligent individual who has done a great deal of reading and investigation into this topic thus far. Take what you have learned and any advice I have given that you find salient and go forth. Welcome to the wonderful world of infinite frustration.

[Sartori]

I had mentioned tmpgenc already but its pointless going into any detail until the capturing is sorted out/ optimised , (then the encoding can be discussed if required) , no point doing a brilliant encoding of a rubbish cap .

[Georgeo57]

Satori,
Thanks for leading me through this.

I installed TMPGE, and captured at 640x480 using Huffy, and the MPEG it made was much better than I had been getting with PicVideo and Nero encoding.

Now I'm trying to figure out how to join two MPEGs together like you suggested. (I'm about to start looking through VCDhelp)

Whytless Physh,
Thanks for the advice about VCDs and DVD players. I had thought over 90% of DVD players could run VCDs. Now I'm trying to figure out if I should get the TMPGE MPEG-2 version and make a SVCD in order to get better VHS copies. I read somewhere that the difference in quality between VCD's and SVCD's is only noticable with enhanced or HDTVs, (about 20% of the TVs out there) and I don't know if VHS tapes made from a SVCD would look better on regular sets.

[Georgeo57]

Satori, I just realized you recommended that I frameserve the AVI file to an exact scene change rather than cutting the MPEGs.

[Sartori]

recommended that I frameserve the AVI file to an exact scene change rather than cutting the MPEGs.

If you were capturing in 2 halves that is . If each avi half was 4 gig (8 gig total for the show) instead of 4gig for the entire show , you would get a better mpeg at the end . But if a 4 gig avi for the show is producing acceptable results then leave it at that . Frameserving (in this context) was for multisegment captured files and to achieve optimum results .
The second run through was for acceptable results .

At the moment I am having a crisis of faith in SVCD , if you increase the bitrate of the vcd (your dvd will still probably play it ) to create an xvcd , at a bitrate of 1300 - 1700 kps , you would be hard pushed to tell the difference from a svcd when sat on the sofa (search for XVCD on this site if what I wrote sounds like gibberish).
If you are using Nero to encode , that could be part of the problem , (Nero is nowhere near as good as TMPgenc) . As Whytless suggested go to the Tmpgenc site but instead of buying download the trial version there , and try before you buy - it is the bestest there is .
If you wish to join mpegs , on TMpgenc , in the FILE menu there is a item marked MPEG TOOLS open this and another set of floating windows will appear , choose MERGE and CUT and load in your mpegs (in order in which you want them to appear) , select a save name and its done (dont forget to set TYPE to MPeg1 Video CD or Mpeg Video CD Non-Standard in the cases talked about above). If you burn with Nero , dont let it remake any non standard video file if you make XVCDs .

Have a look through the site for guides on Tmpgenc if you run into problems as Whytless also suggested .