Problems with large mpeg 2 files

[gurner2000]

Hello all.

Im "new" to all this, ive been reading the forums and how to do guide for the last couple of weeks aand decided it was time to go and get a DVD writer, i ended up with the Phillips DVDR228 but i will be taking it back as soon as the Sony DRU500a is in stock.
Anyway

Ive a couple of problems that hopefully someone can answer.
I downloaded a movie from the net in AVI format.

First off i saved the Audio as a wav using virtual dub, then using Tmpgenc i went for one of the preloaded templates for pal DVD, this loaded the settings in as CQ_65 audio 384k.
Encoded it and everything was ok, played it back on the PC and all seemed well. The outputted file was only 2 gig, and after reading that basically the bigger the file the better the quality i would later try some different settings on tmpgenc.
So i loaded my mpeg into DVD movie factory, created all the chapters and burnt it to DVD, played back in my player and everything was fine.

So i decided to have a go at different settings on TMPgenc using the same AVI i encoded the mpeg at CBR4500 with the audio seperated.
the output file was just over 4 gig, played it back on my pc and everything was fine, picture was good and lip sync was spot on.
So i loaded the film again into DVD movie factory and made the chapters etc and burnt it to DVD. Played it back in my DVD player and everything seemed ok, then half way through the film i started noticing the Lip sync was slipping, and towards the end of the film it was about a second out

What struck me as odd is that it was ok when played back on the PC from the created mpeg2 file.
So i decided to try seperating the audio and video using tmpgen, giving me a mp2 and mpa file (i think) then used Info edit to create the VOB files, then used NERO to burn the VOB files thinking it maybe was a problem with DVD movie factory not liking big files, so i burnt it with NERO and played it back and it was exactly the same!

Now to me when i encoded it with the settings at CQ_65 it was good enough, infact i couldnt hardly notice any difference in picture quality, so its not much of a problem becos i will continue to leave the settings as they are and have a smaller file to play with, but when i get a film that is over 2 AVI files, im going to end up with a 4 gig file again after they are joined and i would imagine im going to get the same problem again.

Can anyone shed any light on this??

And just finally, using DVD movie factory, it burns +RW's with no problem, but it wont do +R's, all i get in the player is invalid disc format and the PC wont read it either, so does dvd movie factory support writing to R's?

Thanks in advance

[gurner2000]

anyone?

[Rambo78]

Hi

First of all. Are you sure that the mpeg plays in sync on your computer?
If it does I have read various threads here that say that dvd moviefactory and dvd workshop sometimes re-encode the source mpeg and that can cause sync problems. Do you know if it re-encoded your mpeg?
I use DVD workshop but I have never experienced any re-encode.
You could try the DVD workshop trial and see if it that works.
Second of all. I don´t know if dvd movie factory doesn´t support DVD+R,
but if your pc doesn´t recognize a DVD+R then something is wrong at that point. Try a different brand of DVD+R.

[gurner2000]

Thanks for the reply!

Yeh the mpeg2 definately plays in sync on the pc, i dont think that movie factory encodes it again, it just creates the Vobs and burns them.
When i say the +R's arent recognised i mean after the burning process is complete, its burnt something on there as you can see it on the disc, but it wont play back in the PC or on the Stand alone DVD player, i have a Phillips DVDR880 stand alone DVD recorder/player and a phillips DVD228 PC recorder, and i have used Phillps media and Datawrite, i recorded a movie onto +R using nero and that worked ok, so i assumed it was a problem with movie factory and DVD +R.
But the biggest problem i have is the large mpeg2 recording out of sync after being burnt with either movie factoy or nero.

[Rambo78]

That sounds strange.... If the source mpeg is fine and it doesn´t re-encode then everything should work.
Perhaps it could be a NTSC/PAL issue?!?!
What framerate is the source and what did you encode it to?

[gurner2000]

The AVI is 23 frames/second.
I encoded to PAL DVD using template in tmpgenc, which gave me a 2 gig file, that burnt ok.
Then i encoded it using the wizard for PAL DVD CBR4500 in tmpgenc, that gave me a 4 gig file, which plays ok on the PC but the sync is out when burnt to disc with either movie factory or nero.
I presume that 23 fps is ntsc? and im encoding to PAL, but its ok on CQ_65

[Rambo78]

PAL is 25fps and if you let tmpg encode a source from 23 to 25fps
tmpg adds frames and u get some jerkiness when playing the file. But if it also can cause audio sync I´m not sure, but it´s definately a source of error. Try to manually change the framerate before encoding.
Follow this guide:
http://www.vcdhelp.com/forum/userguides/138106.php

Hope it helps 8)

[gurner2000]

Is there any explanation as to why it works ok with the settings at CQ_65 tho and not CBR4500?
Im new to this by the way

[Rambo78]

As far as I can see when u used CQ 65 tmpg didn´t perform any framerate conversion. It encoded according to the source framerate but when u used the wizard u choosed PAL and tmpg converted the source

[gurner2000]

Thanks for the help by the way, its appreciated!

so if i stick with CQ_65 then it should be ok to PAL even if the source framerate is 23fps?
Cos if thats the case i might stick with CQ settings cos it seems ok for me.

[Rambo78]

Sorry, I misunderstood u, I didn´t realize when u load the template it was a PAL template. Tmpg should still perform a framerate conversion. So I don´t know!!! But if everything works and u are satisfied u should stick with CQ 65

[gurner2000]

So if i use a template using CQ_65 it will do the frame rate conversion for me, but if i want to do it using the wizard at CBR4500 i need to convert it to 25fps first before doing it?

[Rambo78]

What I mean is that tmpg should perform a framerate conversion in both cases, if you choose PAL CQ or PAL CBR. But why u don´t get sync problems with CQ I don´t know.
The result when tmpg performs a framerate conversion(u can see it when u play your movie and there is long sweep in the movie) u get a slight jerkiness in the playback. To avoid that u should perform the framerate conversion manually.
But like I said before if you are satisfied with CQ u should stick with it.

[gurner2000]

The template setting is only by using the CQ method, the CBR one is by using the wizard.
The strange thing is tho, either way it plays back ok on the PC but the CBR way the audio is out when its burnt to disc.
Ive found a program called AVIFRATE which converts the frame rate to 25, anyone know if its any good?

[Tagger]

1) Are you sure your DVD Player can handle a bitrate of 4500?? I looked in the reviews and all I saw was that it played SVCD and saw no mention of xSVCD (bitrates higher/lower than SVCD standard).

2) You stated that the CQ-65 was from a template and the CBR 4500 was from the wizard. Did you check ALL of the settings between the two to verify that the only difference was CQ-65/CBR4500?? I would call up the template and then change the CQ-65 to CBR4500 and try it again. That way all other settings will be equal. Also, you could up the CQ-65 to something like CQ-85 which will yeild a bigger file but predicting filesize using CQ is tricky.

3) Have you tried the CBR4500 disk in other DVD players to see(hear) if there is still a problem?

4) Lastly, a lot of modern TVs and DVD players will play both NTSC and PAL disks. If yours does, you could leave the frame rate to 23 and give it a try.

[gurner2000]

in answer to point number one, i havent tried in a another player as of yet as i assumed it would play at higher than 4500, arent normal DVD's higher than 4500? or am i missing the point ( im new to this by the way)
Also when its done at CQ_65 the bitrate as a max of 8000 and a low of 2000 so i guess at some point it will go over 4500? and that works ok with no lipsync problems.
when the disc is inserted in the player it comes up in the display as "mpeg" and not "dvd", so why doesnt it call it a DVD?
The mpeg plays ok on the PC so maybe it is a problem with the player not handling high bitrates but im confused cos that what i thought DVD was

[Tagger]

You could be right that the bitrate could go over 4500 when using 2000/8000 min max with CQ-65. But, CQ will use only the bitrate needed to obtain the requested quality level (65 in this case). So, it might not actually go beyond the 4500 thresehold. You could use some of the tools off to the left to analyze the mpeg files to see what bitrates they have.

Do both disks say "mpeg" when inserted into the DVD Player or just the cbr4500?? If it's just the cbr4500, then I would double check your settings in TMPGEnc to verify that they are set for DVD. When in doubt, use the DVD template and just change the bitrate to 4500. Could be that you accidentally used the SVCD template and then burned a SVCD mpeg to the DVD+RW.

[gurner2000]

Yeh all DVD's ive burnt are recognised by my player (phillips DVDR880) as mpegs, but are definately burnt using the DVD template.
This is what tmpgenc has along the bottom in CQ mode..
DVD PAL (MPEG-2 720x576 25fps CQ 65, Layer-2 48000Hz 384kbps)
and this in the cbr4500
DVD PAL (MPEG-2 720x576 25fps CBR 4500kbps, Layer-2 48000Hz 384kbps)
so its definately creating the a DVD, im not sure why my phillips stand alone says its a mpeg disc, when other pre made DVDs are inserted they are picked up as DVD on the player.