Looking for MJPG card

[Anonymous65]

I'm looking for a high quality MJPG capture card with audio. There are 3 cards I have found so far that looks good, the Pinacle DC30 Plus, DC30 Pro, and the Videum 1000 plus.

Here are some issues I want to know about:

* WinMe, 2K and XP support?
* WDM and/or VFW driver support?
* 2/4 GB file size limit? Segmented captures?
* Nice crisp video quality?
* 640x480 @ 30 frames per second or higher?

If anybody has any helpfull info on what card to get, please let me know.

Thank you.

[D_Knife]

I have a DC30+ (Asia model)
the pro is the same except for more software and a breakout box - same hardware though

it has very good 9x/me and NT drivers - 2K isn't bad
XP is NOT supported - there may be some hacks out there but I haven't seen them
AFAIK it's limited to VFW - possibly the reason there is no XP drivers
captures are up to 4Gb with NT/2K and the drivers offer seamless segmenting
From what I can remember the audio capture does not work in NT/2K and an external sound card must be used - this can introduce sync issues
9x/ME uses the on-board audio (44.1Khz Max) so there is no sync issues

With capture your limited to the onboard MJPEG codec - which is good and bad sometimes
when the card is in place and working it captures like a dream - kiss goodbye to dropped frames
it seems to assesmble the entire frame in a buffer and digitize that so dropped frames show up as partially completed frames and there are no audio sync issues
Bad side - you must set the compression rate quite low to avoid JPEG blocks in the captured video around 6:1 or less - resulting in quite large files not as bad as huffyuv but still large
The Mjpeg codec used is a proprietry one and is quite slow when the card is not assisting playback - this works fine in Premiere (there is a plugin) but all other video apps it's software decoding (there is a codec provided)- this is definetly NOT optimized as it's terribly slow
the codec does not appear to be optimized for MPEG playback either and I could never get smooth MPEG files - it seems to be optimized for TV playback

Capture sizes are right up to 768x480 (ntsc) or 768x576(pal) with frame rates of 29.9 or 25 fps (ntsc or pal) - there are the normal colour/sharpness controls and several frame size controls as well
the datarate selector is very useful as it shows the overall bitrate and the size per frame allowing you to control the bitrate with very fine control

However in the end I replaced it with a MPEG hardware encoder
and while not as flexible or userfriendly - it produces decent MPEG files

Hope this helps a little

[Anonymous65]

Thanks for the info on the DC30 card.

It looks like I'm not going to gain much from going from a BT8x8 card to a DC30 card other than perhaps a bit better video quality with the DC30. I have two BT cards, one Happauge WinTV card and one Cybermail card. The WinTV card has a little bit soft video, and there is no sharpness control. The Cybermail card ($30 card) does have sharpness control when using generic WDM drivers, and video image is noticable sharper than the WinTV card. Both cards use the BT878 chip, so I don't know why the WinTV card doesn't support sharpness control. I have tried expensive capture devices like the ADVC-100, and the video quality is noticable better than what a BT8x8 chip can do. However, since I have a 2.2Ghz CPU, I really don't have any need for hardware encoding, I can do it all in software. But, I do want a high quality PCI AVI card for high quality video. I might be stuck with the Cybermail BT878 card for now, it is dirt cheap, but gives the best quality AVI video of the cheap cards. (Do the Osprey-100 card have a video sharpness control?) Also, the DC and Winnow cards use special drivers, while the BT cards use generic drivers that will interface will all capture software. I just wish there was a higher quality AVI capture card than the BT8x8 cards.

[bbb]

I use a DC10+ which is very very similar to a DC30+ except that the DC10+ has no built in audio inputs (requiring a soundcard for inputs). However, it always captures sound in sync.

* It supports Win9X (VFW drivers) and XP (WDM drivers).

* In Win9X it does segmented captures in Studio 7 and in AVI_IO.

* In XP, if you use NTFS, it will capture to one AVI file--as big as you want. However, I've yet to figure out to do segmented captures in XP.

* Max capture resolution for NTSC is 640x480 29.97 fps (higher for PAL at 7?? x 5?? 25 fps).

* In Win9X, I can capture sound at 48 kHz using AVI_IO. In XP, I can do so using Studio 7.

* Picture quality is pretty nice (and has sharpness control, gamma, hue, etc). However, this is my first and only capture card so I can't compare with other cards' quality. If I capture from a dvd player with S-Video cable, it looks like dvd quality.

* Also, the DC10+ doesn't suffer from any macrovision restrictions (you can digitize any VHS and DVDs or pipe a VCR through the card to filter out macrovision).

** Markus Zing, creator of AVI_IO, is working with Pinnacle again to write improved WDM software (including full screen TV preview) for the DC series (DC10+, DC30+, etc). This is very exciting but he is under a NDA so he won't reveal any details.

On another note, I am actually getting a cheap 8X8 card next week to compare the quality and to try out Dscaler.

[Anonymous65]

Lots of nice information about the DC10+ card. I did try a DC10 card a long time ago (several years ago) and the picture was very soft, I had to put the sharpness to max to get a good looking picture. They might have improved on this later, hopefully.

So, the DC10+ card comes with VFW and WDM drivers. I read some messages from other people that the card did NOT come with functional VFW and WDM drivers. Since I'm currently using NTFS partition on my hard drive, there should be no 2/4 gig limit. However, if the capture program that comes with the DC-10+ is buggy or have other issues, I would like to use VirtualDub or VirtualVCR to to all the captures, and still have full control ove the card.

Also, could you do some still frame captures (640x480) from the video and email them to me? I would like to see how composite video input looks like, not S-Video. Composite video is harder to decode than S-Video, so it often looks softer. skittelsen@yahoo.com

[JudgeTracy]

You can't get any better than a DC-30. I use it at a 7200 bitrate - I think the images are better than DV. Nearly every video producer that isn't working on Avid or DV is using the DC-30 - there's a good reason. I use the DC-30+ in Premiere, exporting the video into TMPGEnc through a video server. Produces beautiful DVD.

[Anonymous65]

So, if I get the DC30+ card only, can I download a WDM or VFW driver from Pinnacle and use the card with Virtualdub or VirtualVCR?

[Anonymous65]

And what's the difference between the DC10 and DC30? Audio inputs on the DC30?

[vhelp]

skittlesen,
I didn't think you'd be interested in the DC10+ and that's why I kept silent.
But, since bbb did..
I can vouch for his comments on the DC10+ ..Even though I have and use my
wonderful ADVC-100, I still have my DC10+ card in my PC, along w/ my
Wintv go too. I don't do much WTVGO/DC10+ these days, but they both work
great. I can't believe I've banged, stamped, pulled, fingered and dropped
the DC10+ on many instances, but it still works! This card IS TRUELY a die-hard.
And I refuse to let go of it.

However, if the capture program that comes with the DC-10+ is buggy or have other issues,
I would like to use VirtualDub or VirtualVCR to to all the captures, and still have full
control ove the card.

You sure can. I've used vdub and AVI_IO and they BOTH allow full function of
it's driver configs. Weather you have 2/4 gig or NTF, if using AVI_IO or vdub,
you can always get around those limits with Segmented captures, but since you have
NTFS, you shouldn't have any problems. I've only ben able to test all these apps
and cards out via Windows 98. Can't says much for other OS's though.

I've also heard of people using the DC30 drivers under the DC10+ card. I've
never done this, but I think bbb has or knows of it (if memory serves me well)

Also, I've recommended the DC10+ for VHS sources because it just does a good
job. It does lock the audio into synch with the video (for any source) So, that's
good news. I also believe it has built-in TBC. But, only because I have a TBC,
and when I do certain things with both (tests) they produce the same issues.
(sorry, i can't really explain clearly - it's a gut feeling)

bbb,
that's interesting indeed. ..long live the DC10+
I've had mine for what.. 3 years now or so.

Well, that's about it for now.
-vhelp

[Anonymous65]

Thanks for the info vhelp about the DC-10+. Since you have all the cards, you can tell the difference. It sounds like the DC10+ is a good option, I'm just curious about the video quality. If it's not any better than the WinTV Go card in sharpness and detail (using the composite input), then I will not gain anything by switching to the DC10+. I have no problems with the mjpeg software compressor, and I also have an external TBC. But, it sounds like the DC10+ is a good choice for underpowered PC's.

[vhelp]

skittelsen,

The DC10+ has RCA and S-VIDEO for both its' IN and OUT connects.

Trust me on this.. you wont notice anything "improvement" 'wise when
using the TBS and the DC10+
However, when I do use the Wintv GO or DC10+ card, I use a setup like this:
--> Sat -> TBC -> SIMA CED-CM -> DC10+

For VCR, I skip the TBC, as it makes the video sync worse (like banging
two heads)

The SIMA seems to break out MORE RICHER colors, else it looks a little
less rich.

The DC10+ might not be so easily available as itsefl "the DC10 Plus"
instead, you might only find it marked as Studio 7 or Studio 8 - a package
which NOW ships ONLY with WDM drivers.
But even if you DO find the DC10+ as it is (orginallay speaking) it may
NOW only come with WDM drivers. I could be wrong - it will depend, I
guess.

The DC10+ output quality IMO, shows MUCH less noise in VHS captures
than the other cards ie, wintv go card.

Sharpness ?? I guess thats a matter of opinion. You can't win them all,
but YOU have to be the judge in what is sharp, and what ain't.

The DC10+ as it'self only, has support for a max of 640x480 resolution, but
if you can get away with installing the DC30 drivers, I heard that the
resolution is 720x480. ( VFW or WDM ?? ) I'm not sure which is this driver.

The DC10+ is a great choice. But, remember, as experience goes, many
peoples have different PC/MB etc. setups. So, be gentle.

I think I got everything down here.. so, I hope you come to a final decision
soon.. on any card (whatever your choice)
-vhelp

PS: almost forgot, if you decide on the DC10+ card, I recommend that you
set bitrate to 6000 (no need to go 6152, as it sometimes defaults to when
using external apps like AVI_IO etc) anything less will prob give you poor
color quality, etc.

[bbb]

I will try to post DC10+ vidcap pictures vs my new 8X8 TV tuner card vidcap pictures later this week.


vhelp,

Why did you change from your various capture cards to the ADVC100? Are you still experiencing mysterious static interference problems with your TV tuner cards? Or did you just want to try out the ADVC100? Is the ADVC100 visually better than your previous cards? Or is it the same but without the static? Or is it slightly worse (blockier) due to the DV compression? I'm curious.

[vhelp]

Hay bbb,

Sorry for not replying earlier. I've had nothing but crashes after crashes..
working on a Delphi project. Something to do w/ McAfee's Internet suite.
Anyways..

I'll do my best in answering your questions.

First, I love the DC10+ I've had ups and down 2+ years ago, but after
putting it away years then, and comming back to it w/ a vengence back
in 2002, I've had nothing but success stories. Well, ok, I had a few
ups and downs at first, but that's all behind me.


>> Why did you change from your various capture cards to the ADVC100? Are you
>> still experiencing mysterious static interference problems with your TV tuner
>> cards?
At first, I didn't change from any of the other cards. slowely, I realised
that the ADVC-100 was doing EXACTLY what I wanted of a video device.
A, no frame drop, and B, no sync issues (though, I could sware that I never
encountered them) oh, and C, NO GUDAMN NOISE !! Blastid NOISE!! Well, for
VHS sources that is.
But, for the record, NO, I haven't changed (or should I say, drop) any of
my other cards. They are all STILL connected in my PC and working just fine.
I'm mostly using the ADVC-100 these days because its:
* quick
* HD space is smaller than Huffy (though w98 FAT32 give me 4gig, at 18min
.. is no problem, since I'm usually cutting commercials anyways)
* MV'less
* No frame drops
* no NOISE
* no sync issues
* no drivers to worry about (there are none)
* Quality is (IMO) superb.
* unit is actually very attractive looking too.
* in most cases, vbud will play your DV w/ out hickups, unlike huffy..
So, my video capture projects have ben nothing but pain-free processes.
Encoding is another process all-to-gether, but I don't have much issues in
that department either -- be they MPEG or divX.

Quality:
--------
* I haven't done any real-world tests, but those that I did do (rather quickly)
.. proved to show the same quality as my wintv go card's quality.
* pending on your source, your final DV clip may show some minor Hachets in
.. them but the encoding doesnt show them. Again, that is pendant on your source.
.. they don't show up in the final encodes.
* Color is excellent
* Sound is fine to me, but others have stated that its' on the low side.
.. I just think that they're other equipment needs "Audio adjustments" plus
.. some adjustments to their sound card volument/line in controls. Thats all.
* The better your source, the better your quality. Its that simple. ie,
.. DVD (not that you would want or have to) capture w/ the ADVC-100 is as
.. duplicative as can be. Weather your ripped your DVD or ADVC-100'ed it,
.. you pretty much wouldn't tell the difference, pending your encoding skill,
.. and the level of analness in your eyes.


>> Or did you just want to try out the ADVC100?
1 - yes. I just wanted to try it out too.
2 - I had the money.. nohh, I was pissed off w/ framedrops. Granted, I will
... get ZERO in some, if not MOST cases, using my analog cards, but I just coudn't
... stand them. ZERO frame drops is what I was after -- period!
3 - All I kept hearing about, was the ADVC-100, the ADVC-100.. .. and how
... GOOD it was! So, couple that with my issues w/ frame drops and noise, and
... well, there you have it. The ADVC-100.


>> Is the ADVC100 visually better than your previous cards? Or is it the same
>> but without the static?
Again, at the moment, I can't tell the difference. I only done a few quick
test, and as far as I was concirned (at this time) I was/am satisfied with
the final DV quality!!
So, basically, it's the same as my other cards ie, wintv go, since this card
does 720x480, I'm comparing quality to it.


>> Or is it slightly worse (blockier) due to the DV compression? I'm curious.
No blocks here!! I think that was an DV codec issue w/ other peoples
experiences. At first, I had thought the same, but I had other issues with
the unit, until I figured out what was causing my issues. I had a Video
Distribution that was causing me some grief for a few days. After chucking
the VidDist gizmo, I've ben smooth sailing since.

So, even at $300, it was SO worth it. My past issues w/ my analog capture
cards are but a faint and distant memory. Later on in time, I'll do some
tests and so on, but right now, I'm happy and don't want to taint my good
fortune w/ anal testings and so on and so forth.

Sorry for the great detail. But, you know me.. I can get pretty anal (I meant
lengthy) in my responses at times

-vhelp