Do not advocate warez

[energy80s]

DO NOT ADVOCATE WAREZ

-TGPO

[Craig Tucker]

Energy80s

See the revised forum rules.

Do NOT give warez.

Do NOT link to warez .

Do NOT ask for warez.

Do NOT provide information how to obtain warez.

Do NOT advocate warez.

Your post is in violation of the 5th rule and so has been edited.

[boss]

Big_glare, the reason why people backup their dvd's is simple- money. dvd's aren't cheap you know, so it makes sense to back them up. it's perfectly legal to make 1 digital copy of something you already own and besides, it's mid-november and there's always the risk of an awful fire........

[energy80s]

Craig, "Rent n Rip" isn't advocating any warez!

[Craig Tucker]

Read the revised forum rules here.

http://www.vcdhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=124514

Particularly the part on fair use.

[energy80s]

I didn't say it was legal!!

Then again, how many people here are copying their own DVD's anyway!!

Likewise, trying to burn downloaded movies is in the main illegal, but I don't see any complaints about those posts!

And how many posters are likely to have paid £2000 for a copy of CCE!!

I could go on ...

[tgpo]

Likewise, trying to burn downloaded movies is in the main illegal, but I don't see any complaints about those posts!

I've been closing these all day long.

[Thorn]

Rent'n'rip is piracy, which is within the scope of the term "warez" on this site (The term is defined as pirating of IP or violation of copyright or license). They might need to clarify this, as some people are trying to play word games with what is technically "warez".

Energy80s, you don't need to play the 5-year old's game of "but he did it too!, why isn't he in trouble!". If the enforcement of the rules is flaky here, it's because 1) there are so many people who assume that since a some rules are broken by some people, then it's ok for them to do it as well, 2) people argue over the semantics of the rules, and 3) some people have no regard for the rules or the liability of this site. Also note that it will take some time to clean the board and re-educate the users, so be patient.

Most people here don't care about what the others do outside of this board, and many share the same illegal hobbies. As long as it stays out of the threads, everything's cool. While you can be fairly certain that these activities occur, unless someone goes out and admits to doing something all you can do is suspect (and that's fine).

[Craig Tucker]

I didn't say it was legal!!

If you want to remain a member of the forum, dont post about activities you undertake which are illegal

Then again, how many people here are copying their own DVD's anyway!!

That isn't a concern of this forum, unless a poster advertises the fact that they are making copies of DVD's that they have no right to. Like you did.

Likewise, trying to burn downloaded movies is in the main illegal, but I don't see any complaints about those posts!

We cannot assume that because someone has downloaded a movie that they do not have the right to do so (they may well own the original on DVD but dont have the facilities to rip it - just an example). If they state a fact that they are using P2P for illegal purposes then they will be warned.

And how many posters are likely to have paid £2000 for a copy of CCE!!
!

Likewise, who are we to determine whether someones copy of CCE is legal or not.

[tgpo]

Also note that it will take some time to clean the board and re-educate the users, so be patient.

So true. Because we have formed new rules for the forum we are not outright banning people on the spot for now following the recent additions. We are still banning people for linking and giving warez though. The transition to the new rules will be long, but we hope that it will ensure the legality of this site.

[Treebeard]

And what is the moderators response to post such as

i just downloaded the new harry potter movie and i cant ........

is this considered illegal since its not available for purchase therefore people wont have fair rights usage.

[tgpo]

And what is the moderators response to post such as

i just downloaded the new harry potter movie and i cant ........

is this considered illegal since its not available for purchase therefore people wont have fair rights usage.

Illegal

[vandakeg]

Ya know.. the best reason to make backup DVDs isn't even in the poll!! I do it simply to see if I can... not to mention how cool it is!

[THE RIPPER]

that has a nice ring to it , lol

[Big_glare]

I aggree its fun to see if you can rip your movies. Ive been making home movies to VCD,CVD SVCD for years and now DVD. I still find the thought of backing up an entire collection incase of that fire to be a bit much. Dont you have home owners insurance? keep a good healthy record of everything you own. If your house burns down, its going to take your back ups with them. But insurance will let you go out and replace anything that you lost and can prove you own (ie Proof of Purchase tabs).

Besides isnt all this talk about warez hijacking my topic of why people are backing up DVDs? Isnt that against the rules?

[Thorn]

Nice point vandakeg... Some of us here are engineers (or have similar qualities) and just like to know how things work, or do it just for fun... The proof of concept is fun, but it's not always practical to backup all of your discs. Since I have no kids, and the liklihood of scratching my discs is so low, most replaceable disc aren't really worth backing up. Out of print discs may be worth thinking about, though.

[thxkid]

well, lets see an insurnace company replace my Star wars collection, Lion King and aladdin all I own on laser disc, hell most insurance agents would not even know what a laser disc is, let alone replace and there is no way that they are gonna give me $100 or more bucks to replace a laser disc let alone 125 of them.
I don't own a DVD Burner, feel at this time they are too much of a hassle, so I went with the DVD Home recorder, does just as good or better job than a burner in half the time, plus since it has a tuner. I record every show now on DVD-Ram, forget Crap VHS, what a trash system, looks like crap, plays like crap becuase it is crap, I never plan to record with a VCR again, this digital is way past a VCR. Now thats the main reason I use DVD-R's and DVD-Ram. I buy my DVD's thats why at the present I own 450 DVD's I have purchased.

[Craig Tucker]

Besides isnt all this talk about warez hijacking my topic of why people are backing up DVDs? Isnt that against the rules?

Good point, so I have split this thread.

[SatStorm]

Bad boys, you rent and rip!
This is a bad thing! Don't do it

Some more illegal stuff made in US:
It is ilegal to rip the DVB transmissions and burn them to DVD, expecially with scramble channels, even if you pay subscription to watch them.
It is ilegal to videotape your macrovision DVDs and some PPV DVB transmissions.
It is ilegal to crack your DVDs to back up them. The back up isn't illegal but the cracking of the protection algorythms is.

Most of those thing are legal in Europe.
So, the question is: what is legal and what is not legal?

Another question: Is the act of having a convercation for illegal activities a crime?
With US laws yes, with European ones no.

So, what is legal and what isn't?

And now the 2.000 Euro question: This is an international forum, right?
Please determine! With big red huge letters, to simply know where we are.

If it is a International forum, why me, the European, have to follow the restrictions and the laws of US? Why you restrict me? How you DARE to restrict me with laws NOT exist and NOT allowed to exist in Europe?
And expecially from a site which is not made in USA?

The way I see it, if you want to control your US members then split the forum to 2 services: US and Rest of the world. The detection could be very easy, based on the IPs of your members.

Soon or later, with all those limitations from US, this will be the only solution if you want to keep an international profile.
And the US internet gonna turn intranet, like China's...

[vitualis]

If it is a International forum, why me, the European, have to follow the restrictions and the laws of US? Why you restrict me? How you DARE to restrict me with laws NOT exist and NOT allowed to exist in Europe?
And expecially from a site which is not made in USA?

Um... it's pretty simple really. This is forum that is owned by and run by Baldrick. You should pretty much consider him as "God" when it comes rules and regulations and basically, he can run this site as he sees fit.

These forum rules are not "laws", but a users' policy for this forum. Rather than being completely arbitrary, they are designed to ensure that the members of this forum maintain to what we consider to be the spirit of this forum (read the AUP).

Your agreement with the AUP is completely voluntary. If you do not wish to be restricted by it, there is no compulsion for you to post in the forums.

Regards.

[SatStorm]

Yes, and I hope Baldrick gonna read my post to realise another dimension of it.

Also, as a European I have certain rights, he (the Gog) has to concern when he write His rules. I simply point it to Him, just for His attention.

Overall, as a European I start concern for my rights in the use of Internet. The God must also start count them, as it does with US ones.
Thats my point

And if we want to talk legally, then why is ripping stuff here and all those related guides? By US laws, any cracking of the protection algorythms is a criminal.

There is another thing also: The forum rules said:
"Format shifting
You have the right to convert your media to another format."

Who gives you this right? By US laws, if you buy M$ wma files for example, you are not allowed to convert them to any format.

Oh, I forget. The God... Right...


The things we discuss in VCDhelp, are more or less illegal most of the times for US. That is the fact. Now, if there are some excuses, that's good. But excuses ain't set Rules.
The agreement with the AUP means I have to act and express myself in between the rules voluntary (as I do I think, or not?).
That doesn't mean that I don't have the right to judge those rules, open critiseze them or even point some of them by posting things which I don't like in a hope of better determination. Also, it doesn't mean that I don't have the right to post my concernes. Even God (the true one, if there is one...) can't restrict me doing this.

Fair Rules must take concern all the sides. I shout for the right of European ones. That isn't against forum rules, isn't it?
I don't want to start posting about how to rip and encode a DVB transmission to CVD for example, and a moderator stamped this as illegal activity (which by the way is illegal, defined by US laws...), while is legal in Europe.
As always, I prevent things.

[snowmoon]

SatStorm,

Have you read the rules. Our fair use covers any cable/satellite/ota broadcast that you are legally receiving for the purpose of time shifting.

Basicly the rules are based on a presumtion os innocence, but if you tell us otherwise we shut down the post. This has a two fold effect. One is that people will not ask the questions that can get us introuble. Second this board does not become crowded with "me too" warez leechers trying to get pirated software or movies. I have seen more than one forum die because of warez overload, the legitimate people went somewhere else.

The new AUP is just a clarification of what the moderators have been saying the whole time. Now it's just easier for everyone else to userstand where we are comming from.

[snowmoon]

Ripping and backing up DVD is NOT illegal in the US.

The DCMA specifically says that it does not stop fair use right. The part that is illegal is distrbuting ( not having ) descramblers.

Macrovision is to prevent the average person from making copies, but fair use sais it's ok. Since any good TBC will fix the problem I don't see where you are going with this.

Most US and internation copyright allows for fair use, the just don't allow distributing the result or distribution tools to crack the lame copy-protection.

[energy80s]

Remember that "Fair Use" is only applicable in the USA. It does not apply anywhere else. Likewise Macrovision is there is to people copying VHS and CCS is there to stop people copying DVDs.

You cannot say that you are against people copying copyrighted material when you are supplying them with the knowledge and link to the software that will let them break the law.

In the UK, it is illegal to copy any music from one format to another (say CD to MP3) without a license from the MCPS. However that doesn't stop anyone from buying an MP3 player on the High Street that includes software designed to turn you into a criminal!

Just because laws exist in one country doesn't mean that they exist in others. The internet is worldwide, not just an American venture.

[Craig Tucker]

If you are not happy to obide by the rules of the forum, then the solution is simple don't post. If Baldrick wants to impliment a rule (not law) then it is his perogative, it is his site after all.

[tgpo]

Just because laws exist in one country doesn't mean that they exist in others. The internet is worldwide, not just an American venture.

True, but this website is based out of America. So if you use this server then you held to the laws of the area. Thus if it is illegal to copy rented movies here, then you can not talk about ripping rented movies. The fact that it may be legal in some other country is irrelevent. The location of the server and the information contained on it dictates the laws that can and will be applied to it.

[snowmoon]

You cannot say that you are against people copying copyrighted material when you are supplying them with the knowledge and link to the software that will let them break the law.

But the knowledge contianed on this website can be use for both lawful and unlawful activiteis. How you choose to apply the knowledge is completly up to you.

Any blatently unlawful actvivity will be stoped.

If you don't like it then go somewhere else.

[vitualis]

BTW, there are "Fair Use" type provisions in copyright legislation in just about every country in the world. They all say pretty much the same thing but how the local authority or local recording/motion picture industry likes to interpret it (in terms of public statements and so forth) is dependent on the mood of the day. It was not so long ago that I remember reading articles where the recording/motion picture industry claimed that "Fair Use" didn't exist at all! (nonsense).

It is a common myth (undoubtedly perpetuated by those parties with a set interest) that in certain countries, such "Fair Use" type provisions don't exist. Even if such provisions are not set in legislation (i.e., in those countries with a lot of legal inertia), if a recording company/etc., ever tried to take a case to court and try to win against Fair Use, it will undoubtedly lose. Otherwise, they would have done so years ago to stop players that can dub CD to tape, or VHS players that can tape free to air TV.

Essentially, without these types of provisions it would be illegal to (e.g.) photocopy part of a book or journal, dub a CD to an audio tape, etc.

It should be clarified (and I have posted similar posts numerous times before) that ripping/copying a DVD for personal use (i.e., under "Fair Use" or its equivalent) is not illegal. The part that "may" be is using (the required) DeCSS routines.

Thus, if I own a DVD that is not encrypted (e.g., R4 PAL Amelie), I would be able to back it up for personal use with complete immunity (i.e., same as if I backed up an audio CD).

Depending on the specific wording in your country (for the DMCA and its equivalents), it may or may not be illegal to use DeCSS (i.e., a digital copy protection circumvention device) for otherwise fair usage. For example, in Australia, the spirit of the law is to prevent the creation/selling/provision of services for such a device rather than the home usage.

In any case, the stance this forum takes is that it is morally and ethically "okay" to use DeCSS routines to access content you otherwise have right to under Fair Use. Everyone should be affronted at the fact that the motion picture industry is trying to curtail rights to "Fair Use" by using technological impediments under the guise of "piracy prevention".

Regards.

[BJ_M]

Remember that "Fair Use" is only applicable in the USA. It does not apply anywhere else. Likewise Macrovision is there is to people copying VHS and CCS is there to stop people copying DVDs.

You cannot say that you are against people copying copyrighted material when you are supplying them with the knowledge and link to the software that will let them break the law.

In the UK, it is illegal to copy any music from one format to another (say CD to MP3) without a license from the MCPS. However that doesn't stop anyone from buying an MP3 player on the High Street that includes software designed to turn you into a criminal!

Just because laws exist in one country doesn't mean that they exist in others. The internet is worldwide, not just an American venture.

The internet maybe worldwide but USA law says that any signal or transmission which passes through the usa is bound by thier laws .. and you know IP packets hop all over and around the world with no control on what happens between 2 points ..

anyway, thats what i understand and i throw my 2cents in ...

[btally]

Although cracking the encryption on DVDs may be illegal, no person in the US will ever get prosecuted for this crime, unless they do it for profit.