Any techies know about cpu% and performance, max out?

[coffeecup-sf]

Using VirtualDub 1.5.4 to make DVDs from old vhs tapes. I am getting almost maxed out CPU% with just using one filter, or completely maxed out with using 2 and getting alot of frame drops/poor performance. I'll list my system down at bottom.

Using following setup with virtdub: 640x480 24bit RGB, Huffyyuv 2.1.1 latest codec (YUY2 mode), 29.97 fps. Audio is just radio quality. For filters, I use: Brightness +6% and Contrast 125%; also use Deinterlace. Thirdly, I select the Noise Reduction option at about 25%, so that's really 3 filters I believe.

If I capture using the above setup with no filters (none of those 3) then my CPU% always hovers nicely around 55% to 70% smoothly. If I add only the Deinterlace filter, it gets up to minimum 85% and into the mid 90s%. If I add the brightness/contrast filter it didn't seem to affect % much at all.

However if I add the noise reduction, or for that matter even if I used it all alone and no other filters, I usually get a "CPU 100%" straight through the whole way, needless to say the preview screen freezes, and I get alot of frame drops (like 20% as example). I should say this also happens if I use the "sharpen 20%" filter, even all by itself.

When I was not using Noise Reduction (just deinterlace and bright/contr), it did seem that after awhile of say maybe 30+ minutes of capturing I started getting cpu 100% and I thought it might have been due to the system finally getting too warm. (However when I checked CPU temp in BIOS, it just said the usual 58C to 60C deg).

Otherwise, is my computer really normal when it gets totally maxed out with 2 filters, and even when just using the Deinterlace filter alone it often hovers around 90% to 100 CPU usage? As said it maxes with some filters even alone. Could anyone mention either how I could modify some settings to get the CPU% down much more or perhaps what I might be doing wrong?

(System specs are: AMD Athlon XP-2000+, 256mb DDR400 Corsair Cas2, MSI GeForce3 Ti-200 64mb DDR, 60gb Maxtor 7200.)

[The village idiot]

Noise reduction takes a lot of math. I would say that this is probably normal. If I were you, I would capture with as few filters as possible, and then process the video later. That way you should drop any frames, and still get the results you want. It will take a lot more time though.

[MOVIEGEEK]

Why de-interlace and capture at 640x480?
I would capture AVI at 352x240(288 PAL) and make 352x240(288 PAL) MPEG-2 DVD's because your source is VHS.

[g_shocker182]

I agree. Don't bother de-interlacing b/c you won't see this on your TV. And you'll hear capturing at 720x480 from VHS is overkill...

[coffeecup-sf]

Thanks for the 3 replies.

Village, tried this afternoon to capture only with Bright/contrast and leave out deinterlace etc. But then when I encoded using TMPGEnc, overall appearance was nowhere near as good as when I used 2 or 3 filters in virtdub. This is true even if I used deinterlace noise reduc inside of TMPGEnc for the encode -- output still shoddy looking (blurry, etc). Therefore it seems using those filters at the capture point seems to have the greatest impact(?).

Moviegeek, well 640x480 seems to allow about the best wide screen viewing of the final output. Should add I am using YUY2 best compression mode. When I tried capturing in say 352x240 the AVI file was clearly pixelated rather bad to be considered any quality. Expanding to full screen view was worse. Can't understand how anyone could watch a DVD captured 352x480. Unless, when I encode it, does it get very clear again? Maybe will give it a try but I imagine not.

G-shocker, thanks for the tip. I heard what you said before that all non-deinterlaced video looks just fine on a regular tv screen but haven't tried it. Actually as of now, I am watching all of my DVDs on my computer. Don't have a regular dvd machine. Also I think I will be using my computer monitor to do almost all viewing in the future....
Also, haven't tried the 720x480, but using 640x480. Still unnecessary? As I said, 352x240 seems much lower quality.

One idea I thought of is to use deinterlace and/or noise reduc during the capture, risk the cpu100% and frozen preview screen with some frame drops (~10%), but then to use my side television screen as the 'preview' screen to see where the tape is. This might just be 'do-able' since most of the capturing I am doing is only from 3 to 10 minutes in length (not whole tapes).

Otherwise any further ideas or to address something said above appreciated.

[mrtristan]

If that was me, I would save the deinterlacing for post processing and reduce the noise. My favorite feature with Virtualdub is the on the fly noise reduction.

[coffeecup-sf]

Hey thanks for the rec mrtristan, yah I tried that out.

With virtdub, did bright+6% contrast 125%, and like you said enable noise reduc at ~25% (1/4 way between min and max). You're right, NR works best inside virtdub.

It's strange how some filters work better, or only work in virtual dub, while others, such as deinterlace, can be used with equal effectiveness in the convert mode. Noise Reduc didn't seem to be too hot in TMPGEnc.

Anyways, I did like I said I would in the last post -- use my TV set as the 'preview' screen. Because in virtdub even with just noise reduc filter alone I get 100% max and about 10% fram drops (and preview screen freeze) I can't actually watch it on comp monitor. Used TV set for that.

Final outcome after encode looked pretty good, or best it's gonna get I suppose.

Oh yah, did anybody use Sharpen Edges feature in TMPGEnc encoding? It didn't seem to have any effect at all when compared without it. Otherwise I'm just looking for that combination of filters that will give me the clearest picture I am going to get.

If anyone recommends any other filters please say so!

[mrtristan]

I used to use Virtualdub to capture and Tmpgenc to encode, but I can't use Virtualdub on my new machine. Instead, I use iuvcr, to capture, which doesn't have integrated noise reduction.

Anyway, now I have to do my noise reduction within tmpgenc. It adds a lot of time to the encoding, but it's well worth it, in my opinion. I've experimented with all kinds of filters and different settings, including combinations of Virtualdub>Frameserve>Tmpgenc.

I keep coming back to these settings, though. I set the noise reduction to 100/4/100. This will probably kill the video, if it's real life footage, but works great for anime. It's probably because the color scheme of animation. I also enable the sharpen edge filter, feild based. I set that to 35/35. The final filter that I use is deinterlace, set to double.

This gives me a good balance between sharpness and a blended picture.

Tmpgenc also has a brightness/contrast filter. The settings might be under color adjustment. You might want to try running Virtualdub with only noise reduction enabled. The small percentage of extra cpu power that the brightness and contrast filters use might just make a difference. I have a dual MP 2000+ system. Virtualdub only makes use of one cpu and I only get about 70-80% cpu usage, with noise reduction enabled at default. I'm pretty sure getting rid of those extra features will allow you to capture without any frame drops or freezes.

Deinterlacing, sharpening edges, and color correction don't add much encoding time to tmpgenc, but noise reduction sure does.

[coffeecup-sf]

mrtristan, I had iuvcr installed but got some kind of expiration window or something.

As for the noise reduction in tmpgenc, I didn't quite seem to get it right, but maybe I didn't try enough. But then virtdub has it so didn't bother.

Frameserve, haven't heard of it. For now sticking it out with virtdub/tmpgenc. The 100/4/100 and 35/35 settings you were talking about, that's inside of the Frameserve program right?

--> As for the brightness/contrast filter in TMPGEnc, that has got me rather stuck!! I found them and played with them, but cannot seem to get a good setup.

I've tried brightness20/contrast20, but too dark. Then I tried bright50/contr50, it's good but there's this "thin gray haze" across the picture. I think it has to do with the brightness/contrast being too similar together and not different enough. So I tried Bright50/contrast75, better but not enough. So then I did bright50/contr75 and Gamma 50. That helps alot, but amazingly, now instead of having a thin gray film across the screen, it's like a thin white film.

Can't get those right yet. I don't know, maybe I should try a negative contrast like -25.

And now with virtualdub I have another problem that I just had to start a new thread on: the preview screen is whacked. It either doesn't have motion, or the picture moves but is very garbled. It all started when I played with the virtdub noise reduction and put it up to 3/4. That seemed to mess it up. But even with NR off, the preview screen is now out of commission.

Any possibilities?? Thnx.

[vhelp]

hi coffeecup,

As for vdub and on-the-fly (OTF) filtering...
Those were intended for really fast CPUs, a few years ago. But, the problem
is, though our pcs get faster and faster, they STILL can't keep up w/ the
deman of certain filtering jobs inside vdub. Noise is bigee.

Basically, those are optional features of vdub. And, its up to the user of to
determine if those featurs (OTF filtering) are adaquate for the capturing job.

It would seem that your's is pushing the limits w/ in your envelop !
I would recommend that you perform these in a seporate step. I don't
know if you realize this or not, but I would defintaely assume you are
DROPPING frames when your CPU % sky-rockets. I know, because I've
ben there and pretty much done it all. I have an XP 1700+ and 1800+ and
will definately drop frames if I incorporate any OTF filtering. And, to me,
its just not worth it. For one, you are sevearly taxing/hampering your process,
which would lead to other faults within the project, not to mention the ware
and tare of your pc and mechanics ie, hd/cpu (not that it matters these days
to anyone)

I would recommend against using OTF filtering, and save those for your next
step in your process.
What you'll gain is longer PC/HD life, and minimal (tipicle) video issues ie,
framedrops, noise, and of course, less headaches. etc etc.

Give the above some thought

-vhelp

[overloaded_ide]

I would stop dropping frames! That's not gonna result in the best quality!
Others have suggested software posiblities/options.

I suggest ram if you can get some!
Increasing your ram will help alot I think. If your maxing out your CPU I would geuss your ram is maxing out too, especaily if your running windows (256MB drr isn't much really)! One would beleave extra cpu usage would be needed if your constantly using our swap file due to low ram. So if you add another 256 or 512 ddr to your system you might get better overall performance out of your cpu too! Normally more ram can be better than a faster cpu! Depends on various things. Like I have 1 gig, so more probaly not gonna do anything for me, though a cpu would. 1700xp currently and happy.
Of course if you are swapping alot your drive could be slowing which will also cause dropped frames if its not keeping up!
Every one recommends a fast drive freshly defraged and many even go as far a using a master drive for the system and a second slave drive for video capturing/editing only to prevent such things as dropped frames. So you can imaging how swapping alot is gonna effect frames if you only have that 60gig doing everything! That is a good drive though, I have one.

Of couse, contrary to what some people wrongly think, the video card makes absolutley no difference (unless of course it's the capture device like an ATI AIW). All it does is play the files back. Many people think the talk about video card rendering aplies to captures or rendering animation video files durring creatation, it does not! Some games will send data to a video card and the card must do the rendering durring game play. It has nothing to do with anything else basically. Long as it plays back the finished file, that's all it needs to do.


I don't capture with filters, just directly to Mpeg2 files, author and burn. I get VHS quality from VHS tapes. Also with my new DV camcorder, though I plan to look for a firewire card today! Analog is VHS, even out of a DV source of course!

Vhelp,

not to mention the ware and tare of your pc and mechanics ie, hd/cpu ..... What you'll gain is longer PC/HD life, and minimal (tipicle) video issues

I can see less reading/writing on the hard drive extending it's life, but how does the rest of the PC benifit?
Since I have over 4 systems now, I am asking seriously!

I never heard anything before about shortining the life of a pc by maxing out ram or cpu useage? Overclocking yes, but not normal use.
Or even any damage to an IDE controller by constantly writing to a swap file? Of course something like drives with moving parts will wear out someday, and more swapping you do the faster those might die. But in all reality I dought even that matters much. In all the hard drives I have had I only lost a 1gig drive, ever! I did have a defective WD 13 gig once, I had to RMA it in 2 months though. Since about 1988 I seldom (if ever) had a problem with anything that was not either defective to begin with, or it was caused by external damage, like being dropped or power problems. Now I have dirt and dust to worry about, living on a country dirt road.
I don't go to any measures to protect my systems other than an uninterruptable power supplies and surge protecters. Nearly everything I've owned actually out lived it's usefullness, like the 10 yr old system I still have and ocasionally use, but rarley.
Currantly my oldest system in daily use is only about 3 yrs old, and I have worked the tar out of it often and it is shut down anytime it's not gonna be used for awhile. Contrary to beleave also is that a PC life is shortened by turning them on and off. If not in use turn it off! Why waist power for nothing, and it does not hurt it! Never had one die, and I know where some of my old stuff is and it still works for those I gave it to!

[vhelp]

hi overloaded,

I can see less reading/writing on the hard drive extending it's life, but how does the rest of the PC benifit?
Since I have over 4 systems now, I am asking seriously!

Well, you take what you want in reading

I was refering to the amount of extra heating and thing ie, your hard drive
spins and spins, expanding its heats through usuall spining, but what about
the acutal writing and it's mechanisim ?

That's what I was on about.. but not to be taken and disected for this
statement (give or take a little, how you interpret it)

As for CPU, yes, you can extend the life of it as well, if you are not maximizing
it through constant access, which is what a capturing app will put the cpu
through. I know, cause my cpu fan (high pitch sound) goes up and down,
depending on what app is accessing and churning via math or whatever
stresses all it's areas of computation hence, ware and tare. Rediculous,
yes maybe. But, when I open an app, I hear my sys pitch (ISMW) raise in
sound, and while idle, low in pitch. Now, when I say, "..constant access"
I don't mean through regular use, becuase in actuality, it is "constant access"
but what I'm on about, is the "extra" that your cpu/hd must go through to
that much more, that it would not usually go through if you didn't need to,
hence the capturing.

Capturing uses a LOT of system resources ie, hd; cpu; ram etc etc. In short,
more ware and tare. Do this every day, and your pc lifespan is shortened.
Know, I did not say, your pc will die tomorrow. Specs usually talk about
ware and tare, in "thousands hours" or something like that, as in hard drives.

That's all I was saying, but NOT trying to dramatise the "ware and tare"
part, or "..constant access" or whatever you were trying to attack me of

So, take w/ a grain of salt, or continue as you were, or whatever
-vhelp

[overloaded_ide]

Sorry if you took it as an attack, often the way I write things they can be mis-understood. It was not meant as an attack really!

As for the hard drives, like I said too the more you use them the sooner they can/will die, yes they have moving parts that can wear and fail. I only had 1 fail, a 1gig and that started going bad after a power failure.
The other drive was defective, made noise brand new and crashed within 2 months and was replaced (RMA) with no questions.

[vhelp]

@ overloaded..

I didn't take as attak/effense.. that's why all the
-vhelp

[Nelson37]

Just to set the record straight, the only wear and tear associated with usage, even "maxed out", are the fans and to a lesser extent the hard drives and CD, DVD. Provided there is sufficient ventilation, the electronics themselves will generally last longer if never turned off. Its generally accepted that most chip failures not due to overheating or gross defect occur shortly after power is applied, whether it is electrical shock or thermal shock is still debated.

It is the same principle with flourescent light bulbs.

As to the capture problem, I would definitely try a seperate capture drive, this will help significantly. Noise filtering while capturing is extremely CPU intensive.

[overloaded_ide]

Perhaps if something is already ready to break, then a little added stress will break it. For the most part off and on with a healthy computer (or anything else electronic) should not harm it.

How many people leave the TV, Stereo, etc.. running 24/7 as long as they own them? Same people turning those devices off when not in use will leave a computer on permanantly, but turn off the monitor
If anything it is the monitor that should be left on, watch the power draw when you click it on. That big tube takes a heck of a surge.

In actual pratice though, I shut my stuff off when not in use. I have friends that don't becuase they have 24 hr fax/voice mail running or connected to a lan and leave the main system on. In general they have had more hardware problems of various types than I have had. I have more systems than them also, like now with 4 good ones in daily use.

Either way I dought it hurts them, when they are ready to pop they pop!
Just like a light bulb, sometimes it blows when you turn it on, sometimes it's been on 4 hrs then blows! And the one that's on 24/7 here blows about as often for me as the ones we turn on and off 5-6 times a day/night.

I think we're a bit off topic, so I'll stop.