Apex 500W Question

[Tavz]

I recently purchased an Apex 500W DVD Player. The vcd playback is what I am concerned with. I have read through some threads about it and see that others have had the same problem I am having. I get glitches in almost all my vcds. It seems to be the speed in which they are burned. If i burn a vcd at 2x they usually play fine without any glitches but when burned at 4x they get some glitches. Now these arent huge problems but annoying none the less. My burner is a Yamaha 16/10/40. I know the simple answer to this would be to just burn them a 2x, but I find that very unacceptable when having a fast burner and not having an hour to burn each movie. What Im wanting to know is if there is another way of perhaps fixing this? Perhaps different kind of media? I am currently using some cheap ass PNY green bottom cdrs. I have also used some decent quality Memorex but they didnt seem to help. The vcds play fine on my computer just not on the player. In one thread I read that putting labels on them sometimes help. I dont understand this at all, if someone could explain it to me i would appreciate it. Any other help would also be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[wildcatfan]

Unfotunately this is a fact sometimes you have to live with. Understand that the burners are rated max speed of course. They are also primarily meant for burning data cd's. The problem comes in that videocd's are burnt in a different mode where there is MUCH less error correction capability than data cd's. When burners are used at high speeds they almost always have more errors (all cd's have errors even commercial ones but the error correction takes care of that) than ones at slower speeds. With less error correction the errors become more visible on vcd's. Now all of this having been said you can try and find a different brand of cdr that will work better. I have an apex 703 and some brand of cdr's I can burn at 12x (my burner limit) and some I have to burn as low as 2x depending on the quality of the blank.

Michael

[homerpez]

I'm wondering if this is really any solution to this at all... I have (and had) an Apex 500w, and I had these sorts of problems, too... basically read errors where the Apex drive will miss a part, there will be lots of macroblocks then it continues on. These are on VBR VCD's encoded with TMPGEnc, re-multiplexed with bbMPEG. Should run top-notch.

The catch in my problem is... these same movies play just fine on my PC-DVD Rom drive. So it seems the problem isn't in the burn, but in the READ!

Is this the sort of problem you're having too? I dare say it has little to nothing to do with burn speed (I even tried one 4x vs. 8x, no difference)... but I think it's the crappy ROM drives on the Apex!

I'm now on my 2nd Apex 500W unit that does this. I had one which worked 100% for a month, then it went bad, I returned it. Bought a Pioneer 343 at Circuit City, it was even WORSE!!! Brought that back, bought another Apex. 2 days into it, it's doing this same thing!

I'm planning on finding out what superior rom drive to swap out (reading some guides now on that), expect a new thread momentarily asking for help on THAT project...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: homerpez on 2001-08-19 20:20:36 ]</font>

[Tavz]

Yes, the movies play just fine in my computer drive, with no glitches or anything. Its only when i watch them on my Apex 500w that they get glitchy. I would like to switch my Apex drive with something better but not sure how to do it. If you get it to work please let me know as I would also like to try it.

[SiNXation]

There is nothing wrong with you apex player, its the burn most likely. the apex laser is very weak so the burn has to have a very good impression. you pc drives have better lasers so they can picc up just about anything. try burning the movie slower or have a friend burn the movie on his burner.

[next]

I have had the same problem with both the Apex 703 and the Apex 660. I have also had the identical problem with other DVD players I've tested as well. They all glitched at exactly the same time on the same CDR. The only player that did not was the Pioneer 343. This is not a buffering error because they would glitch if the cdr was stopped just before the glitch and then resumed - the glitch would appear.

I tried numerous CDR brands, burning speeds, hardware setups and tweaks, bios tweaks, capturing routines, etc.
I distilled it down to one variable which was mpeg1. This was after months of testing. The mpeg1 glitches were not a deal breaker for me but I nonetheless wanted to have a perfect playback.

I switched to mpeg2 captures and I have not seen a glitch since. It seems that the 703 and the 660 can handle the mpeg2 streams just fine. The 660 will play the raw mpeg2 captures (!). The 703 requires a demux/mux to an SVCD program stream. This takes only a couple of minutes in mpeg2vcr. Mpeg2vcr (Womble) can demux an 800 meg file in less that 90 seconds which has to be 10x's faster than TMPG.

So I guess the moral of the story here is that if you have to do mpeg1 (xVCD) then get a Pioneer 343 or one of its siblings. If you can move to mpeg2 (xSVCD) then do it. You won't be disappointed. Especially if you have an Apex because Apex excells at xSVCD. It leaves everything else in the dust when it comes to high resolutions and advanced bit rates - VBR or CBR.

Cutting mpeg2 can be a challenge when it comes to a/v sync. If anybody needs any tips let me know. I figured out a painless and fast routine that provides 100% accuracy.

[homerpez]

This is actually why I'm preferring to change the ROM drive on the Apex... playback (as in decoding board) works near-perfectly, but the ROM drive stinks to high heaven!

I see people here love to blame the "burn process"... I think that a decent player should be able to play these CD's... after all, 99% of all PC DVD-ROM's do!

So, I can either agonize over how to make all my CD's work like they're pressed, or I can bring the Apex machine up to par with the rest of the world...

[SiNXation]

well many people blame the burn process becuase that is what it is mostly. Most of my movies are on the exact brand of cds. and mostly burned with a Panasonic 7503 at 8x. For the most part pretty good few glitches here and there but pretty good. Now that I have a Plextor 16x burner I have never had one glitches yet. Same pc, same software, same cd's. Only difference is the burner. Fast burners to put as good as impressions as you think, quality burner do. just try it and see.

[homerpez]

But what about LAZINESS? I think we need to discuss this a bit more.

Being a laziness advocate for many years, I would have to offer the opinion that to try "quality" burners and CD brands until the correct combo is found, requires a great deal of perseverance, and {gulp} work. I personally can't be a willing accomplice to this.

The lazy way is to change only ONE thing, so sneak around these defects. I am the KING of laziness. I was even too lazy to take the Apex apart to look at the guts this evening. I was sooo tired, and the couch was sooo soft...

{SATIRE OVER}

I do see your point on the "quality burner" issue. But, lucky me, I'm having to use the burner at work (Yamaha SCSI 8x drive), so I'm not too flexible in the burner arena... and much too poor to purchase one! $$$$$$