Major drop frames in VirtualDub with poor qaulity vhs tapes

[buickcoupe]

Wanted to see if anyone else had any ideas on a fix. Im getting alot of frame drops trying to capture poor qaulity vhs tapes, next to buying a TBC
is there any other solutions? Everything works fine with tv or any other qaulity input with same setup. Thanks

[vhelp]

afternoon,

buickcoupe,
You didn't say what condition are these tapes ie, old recordings of 10 years
or just recent recordings, or store bought movies on VHS, etc.

But, even IF you DO buy a TBC, you'll probably still have some frame drops.
You have to figure out what exactly is causing your drops first, that is,
if you can. For VHS, I don't there is a cure for frame drops on some. They'll
always be a drop here or there, even in an optimum PC, ie, w/ a TBC and other
such hardware.
The reason why I say even if you have a TBC, is because although the TBC
may cleanup the video's sync, you still have to contend to your other
hardware issues ie, HD or Motherboard, IRQ, Sound card, etc, etc.

VHS is tricky. I've captured quite a few VHS tapes, and with many different
capture cards, the latest being my WTVGO and DC10+ cards. I'm currently playing
around w/ both right now, as we speak. The quality of the source from VHS is
some random store bought movies, ie Mission to Mars, Monster Inc., Bugs Life, etc.
At times, I may drop 1 frame, and others, NONE. So, this tells me it's something
to do w/ my Sound card, Motherboard, Capture (and drivers) all working (trying
to) in concert. It's a timing thing, you know?
I've got ALL sorts of gadgets but still, I may drop a frame or too on VHS
source. Anything else ie DVD or Satalite, and I'll NEVER drop a frame!
It's a combination of things like:
* Macrovision, and it's associated screw-you's ie, wavy video/short de-syncs,
color distortion... you name it or them all.
* condition and/or age of tape
* unit tape was recorded on
* quality of source, when tape was being recorded, ie cable vs. satalite vs. attena
* again, given above, then quality of source being shown.
* Motherboard
* Sound Card, ie Sound Blaster is notoriest for stealing resources, hence drops
in frames, etc.
* I/O issues
* IRQ issues
* Cap card Drivers, ie BTx8x vs. Conectex vs. the other one...
* Graph card drivers, ie PCI vs. AGP (AGP being the better)
* HD's speed and placement settings, ie Prim vs. Secondry etc.
* tape heads condition ie, alignment problems maybe or age or warnout
* quality of VCR or shall I say, top brand vs. L'cheepy
* maybe a few more I miss'ed here.

Remember, there are two kinds of VHS materias,
* those that are home-made or taped to, via cable or satalite or attenna,
* and those that are pre-made, ie store bought
Both have issues,
* store bought's -> MV
* home-made's -> quality, condition of source, etc. (see all the above)

Top issues w/ VHS sources are:
* video stability ie, sync and MV
* hardware related, ie Sound card/motherboard/IRQ etc.

VHS projects are not easy. Nailing your quality issues, ie fram drops, and
what-nots is not gonna be solved over night. You're bound to find other
issues as well during your VHS-to-CDR endeavors.

I'm very close to getting a system process down for my idea of good quality
VHS-to-CDR transfers. I have a few more issues to iron out. But, every time
I figure something out, another issue pops out of nowheres. Anyways.

-vhelp

[buickcoupe]

Well these are family films that are converted from vhs sp to vhs ep and have a few years under them Just was trying to presever them before they fade away if you know what I mean. Im using a ati 8500dv and I also have a xtasy Everything card that I havent tryied yet but may give it a try also. Thanks again

[Eagle]

I'm having the same problems capturing old VHS tapes.
After fiddeling with the VirtualDub settings I found that disabeling the "lock video stream to audio" under video->timing prevents the dropping of frames almost complete.

The downside of this is the audio being way out of sync. Unable to repair also by stretching the wav file since the audio is not constant. Blank spots in the video result in a shorter blank in the wav. I am now thinking of capturing the video stream only and then capturing the audio with some apllication. Then merge the two files. Hell of a long time to work though..............

Anyone else got something to add??

It seems VirtualDub uses too much resources to sync the audio to video for some reason. Capturing TV broadcast doesn't present the same problem though. I'm lost here........

[vhelp]

morning all.

eagle,
I do know what you mean... capturing video first, then audio, and
as you said, lots of work ie double time -- video capture, then
audio capture.
Then, you have to figure out how to time it just right so that they
both match in sync when you merge the two, using any app that works.

An alternative is to:
* buy a 4 position switch box
* you have to set it up just right (works though)
* connect your box to your video card, and VCR,
* and, well, the rest you'll have to figure out.

I don't practice this cause I don't have the dropping issues as you
all are having.

The best I can say is try a WTVGO $49 card.
I can capture w/out any frame drops, even at 720x480. Capturing
my satalite give me ZERO frame drops, and the same w/ VHS. BUT,
w/ VHS, the quality isn't as good, because the video is not being
locked in, but w/ a DC10+ card, the video seems to be locked, or
semi locked, and give a good or decent and somewhat stable video.
But with the WTVGO or anyother capture card, when you capture VHS
source, you can see the video wobble or jitter a bit. How? just
leave the VCR's counter displaying while you're capturing. That
should give you some clues as to why you're dropping frames.
Now, (with any card) I don't capture a full hours worth or more
cause it may or may not cause audio sync. So, it would be wise
to NOT practice this. I don't know WHY people practice a FULL
hour of capturing, when they can do it in segments ie 1/2 hours
etc. and rule out audio sync issue forgood!! People just think
that they must, like it's a law that you have to do it in one
gulp!
However, if you can get your hands on a DC10+ card, you'll see a
much better and more stable picture, not as good as a TBC'ed
process, but better than a jittery capture in any case. TBCs
wont sharpen or produce your video's in DVD quality or anything
like that. I've heard many people here talk about how getting
a TBC will end all your VHS issues, but it's not totally accurate.
At best, the TBC will (to a point) reconstruct each video frame
and make it: stable, eliminate the jiggles/jitters, and if you
ever seen a wavy video, like at the top left hand corner or other
areas, these will be eliminated. As a result, the capture card
will have a better hold of the video, and if you have a capture
card that locks into the video (like the DC10+ card) it will give
you very good results (in capturing w/out frame drops)
But, there still remains audio sync issue, even w/ these TBC
devices/cards or whatever. That's why I say to capture in small
segments like 1/2 hour ones.

Now, I've yet to see a TBC sample. Looks like no-one's got any!
Cause, they don't produce mericles. TBCs will only stablize the
video (after re-creating a fresh new frame) for a better lock
during capturing, if you card locks onto your capturing.
I doubt we will ever see SOME sample clips produced w/ a TBC
device. So, is their any MEN out their who dares to provide a
couple of samples? One Animation like Chicken Run or Monsters Inc.
and other non-animation. Anyways. . .
But, just take my word for it, the DC10+ is a better
deal for VHS capture projects. However, you'll still get drops
but hopefully, not as many.

-vhelp

[lpn1160]

tried increasing cap res? when I tried capping vhs @ 352x480 frames dropped constantly, when I went up to 480x480 frame drops hit 0.
Go figure

[buickcoupe]

Well I will say I can capture to mpeg2 with no drop frames where if I used virtualdub and a avi codex that is when I had major drop frames. I set my software to dvd qaulity and converted it but not as good if I use avi and with the qaulity not that good to start with like to keep all that I can As far as a tbc I have heard they only do 2 lines where a frame sync will do a frame which would be the better way to go but with both will have audio sync issues. Again thanks for all the input!

[buickcoupe]

I forgot to add that what I wanted to do is end up with all my home video put on a dvdr. With a avi capture makes it a little more easier to encode for different formats for dvdr. I wanted to capture min of 352 x480 to get both fields.

[lpn1160]

I know exactly what you're sayin. as for myself I push the envelope on everything. I see what is the max I can get away with and everything else i just blame on hardware constraints. Mpeg2 however ain't so bad, a few filters during post processing, a little time spent tweaking here and there and you caps will probably be very acceptable.

[Donovan]

Is there any way to find out where frames were dropped when capturing with VDub?

I drop very few frames (YUY2 & Huffy, 25fps, 720x576) but would like to find exactly where a dropped frame occured so I can determine if it was 'critical' or not.

Anyone?

Thanks