What Is The Best Quantize Matrix 4 TMPGenc

[Los11]

What is the best quantize matrix settings for the best quality in TMPGenc for intra and non intra blocks.

[kwag]

What is the best quantize matrix settings for the best quality in TMPGenc for intra and non intra blocks.

[Los11]

is that for MPEG-2 also to make SVCDs or just VCDs

[kwag]

It will work all the way from VCD to DVD. MPEG-1 and MPEG-2.

-kwag

[adam]

Do a web search for "CCE Patcher." Its a patching tool to patch Q matrices into CCE, but you can just manually add them into TMPGenc. There are different ones for different uses. Try them all, including Kwags, and see which one you like best. Personally, I can't tell much difference between any of them.

Also there is another Q Matrix not in that patcher called the Andres Matrix. Its supposed to be very good so keep your eyes out for that one as well.

[Truman]

Different sources require different matrices. There is no "best" matrix as well there is no "best" setting at all. Leave the matrices alone unless you know what you are doing. A matrix work like a high/low pass filter, but if the bitrate is too low, the encoder will ignore the setting anyway and probably the result is even worse.

[kwag]

http://ns1.shidima.com/kwag/KVCD_704x480_PLUS.mpg

Don't even dream on making that sample with any "General Purpose" matrix.

-kwag

[stormcrow]

I grabbed these matrices from a German Video Forum, unsure if they are the same as any of the aforementioned, but they have served me quite well, I was able to notice a quality difference in some encodes.

Not really wanting to type the matrices out or up templates, so I'll give the lines that go in the *.mcf file for TMPenc templates - just replace the values presently with the ones here (notepad works). Copy and paste is tons better than manually entering these, take my word for it.

For interlace source -

MPEG.Video.QuantizeMatrix_Intra = {
080D0D111115151C0D0D11111315171E0D11131315171C220D 11131315171C30
11131313171C2230131317191C202230131517191C20223015 1519191C202230}
MPEG.Video.QuantizeMatrix_NonIntra = {
080B0B0F0F1111180B0B0F0F111115180D0F0F1115151A220D 110F1115151A30
11151517151E2230111515171C1E22301313191A1C1E303013 13191A1C1E3030}


And for Progressive source:

MPEG.Video.QuantizeMatrix_Intra = {
080D0F131317171D0D0D111316171B1D0F111316171B1D2311 1516171B1D2325 1515171B1F21252E15191B1F21252E3A19191F212528364519 1F21252836454E}
MPEG.Video.QuantizeMatrix_NonIntra = {
080B0D0F0F1313180B0B0F0F131518190D0F1113151819220D 111315171A222E 111315171A202E381115171A202E384216161C1E2E38424516 1C1E2E3842454E}

Best wishes, sorry i cant give you more info on the origins of these matrices.

[vhelp]

los11,

I agree w/ Truman. Different Matrix will yield:
* different quality
* higher bitrate, or lower bitrate
* work better in some AVI source, while not so, in others
* while, some will work well with every kind of source

However, it's just best to leave the Matrix alone, in its default
state. Messing around with The Matrix is really for Advanced
people who (I'm assuming) know what they are doing, and understand
the use/nature of The Matrix)

As for me, I consider myself pretty advanced, but not top notch.
I do mess w/ the matrix though. I have currently, two that I use.
my, 1d usually outperforms my 1a in quality, however,
my 1a yields much smaller file size, but affects the quaity
just slightely. When you see a reference such as, vCVD or vDVD,
I'm refering to my vMatrix, using my V in vhelp.

On my 1st pc, I use my vmatrix, and on my 2nd pc, I use the default
matrix in tmpg.

CCE, as far as I can tell in version 2.50, does not allow you to change
the matrix. But, in version 2.64, you can. I've tried my vmatrix, but
it does not make any difference in finall quality. That's for the CQ
(one pass) in CCE. The 2pass or more deffinately doesn't do anything.
My guess, is that CCE auto resets its matrix (but I could be wrong) I
only done this twice, as a test. But, CCE is MUCH worse, in allowing
you to configure it's matrix. Boy, was it a pain in the ass to adjust.
You have to you the mouse pointer to edit in each cell. No tabing or
cursor keys work, in navigating to other cells!! It is so not worth
messing in CCE, unless someone knows of an alternate way. BUt, then,
I could care less.

But, just my opinion, the real benefit of modifying the matrix is probably
only best used when the encoding format is CQ. This is where the
matrix mods will come in handy, and show dramatic changes, be it good
or bad. Usually, bad. As for me, being that I'm in the advanced
catogory, I have developed a techeque for modifying the matrix, and
can visually see how it affects my encodes. It's a great tool, and
I use it every time I work with the matrix numbers.
.
.
But, here is a tip, if you insist on fukng w/ the matrix. . .
* create a complete backup of your working TMPG, and it's directories.
* then, as you modify your matrix settings, first click the Save button
and give it a name, and something unique.
* The more you make mods, save w/ a new name, preferably, in sequence
numbers, so you can see/guage your progress
Ok, by not practicing this strategy, you'll probably end up re-creating
the wheel a dozen times or so.
Well, you'll grow tired of the matrix soon. You'll see

Not to confuse with the movie, The Matrix he, he....

-vhelp
-----------------------------------------------
For Standard and other VCD samples, you can jump over to this FORUM's link
here: VHELP's Samples... - last updated: 08.17.02

[adam]

vhelp, as I said there exists a patcher that will let you patch your custom Maticies into any version of CCE, and of course it comes with some good matricies as well. I don't see anything wrong with the default matricies in CCE and TMPGenc though.

Also you have to multiplex the matrix into your mpg stream in order to get the full effect, otherwise the decoder does not decode it properly. I think bbmpeg is the only program that can do this.

[Los11]

Thx everyone for the input and advice. I rip my own dvds to svcds and i get very good quality, very close to the level of those whose use CCE on the net. I have the movie as an interlaced source and encode with a 3:2 pulldown and the GOP is I=3 P=3 with 12 frames in every GOP using CBR always 1900 or above. This yields very good results, but i was thinking that the matrix set up would push it to yield even better results.

I was also wondering if it would be better to have a GOP set up to be IBBIBBIBBIBB or IBIBIBIBIBIB instead of IPPIPPIPPIPP. Since P frames predict and B aer Bilinear would B frames be beter to use in between I frames or P. I've noticed that with this GOP set-up I've gotten much better picture quality and motion smoothness with this also. Before i test it for myself i would like get more input on the above GOP arrangement. Thank You.

[Truman]

Also you have to multiplex the matrix into your mpg stream in order to get the full effect, otherwise the decoder does not decode it properly. I think bbmpeg is the only program that can do this.

That's a missunderstanding, many people believe, they change the matrix, but in fact they don't. If you patch ccesp 2.50, neither ccesp nor bbMPEG mux the custom matrix to the MPEG stream. So the dvd player decodes the MPEG assuming the standard matrix is used. The result is a slightly worse result.
One more step is necessary. Use ReStream to write the matrix information to the sequence header. Note, that it will affect your bitrate calculation.

while, some will work well with every kind of source.

I agree, using custom matrices may yield better quality and there may be a matrix, that work well with every kind of source (e.g. the standard matrix). But there is no matrix, that work best with every kind of source. Even less there is no matrix, that work well with every compression level. [/url]

[Thorn]

Sorry to dig this thread up a month later... but I'm just getting to the point of looking at the matrix.

Truman, you mention cce 2.50. Is CCE 2.64 fixed to mux the matricies in? I see TMPGenc and CCE 2.6.4 (haven't tried the latter yet) have Default, MPEG standard, and CG matrix options. Does either program mux the matricies in or do you always have to use restream?

That would seem odd because if no custom matrix is muxed in then I would assume it's using the MPEG standard... and both CCE and TMPGenc default to the 'default' matricies so it wouldn't seem very profesional to allow users to select a matrix preset but not mux it in (and thereby degrade the quality).

Thanks for clearing this up... I'd like to encode some animation using CG but won't bother if it degrades quality (If restream has to be used for every mpeg I make I may use the default matricies more often than not)

[Truman]

Don't worry. CCE SP 2.62, 2.64, 2.66 as well as TMPGEnc mux the matricies in. Also you can edit or write new ones.