Well here they are the two new WinTV-PVR model

[SHS]

WinTV-PVR 250, 350

[JWeavis]

Anyone know if these are for sale yet or where to get them?

[Tazzofemarr]

If I was you, I would wait about a year before buying one.
Hauppage is well known for there buggy drivers & taking there sweet time to fix them.

[jabber]

Go Creative, baby!

[SHS]

Tazzofemarr is wrong the drivers work just fine.
As for buying it in Europe I belive that be in June some as the US but only US has a Web store for direct buying from Hauppauge so if you live in Europe this not an option for you rigth now check there Where to buy link that is close hauppauge web to you if it has a link to one.
http://www.hauppauge.co.uk/
http://www.hauppauge.de/
http://www.hauppauge.de/ital/
http://www.hauppauge.fr/
http://www.hauppauge.fr/spain/
http://www.hauppauge.com.sg/

Creative Labs Digital VCR is a waste of time and there no PAL tuner ver sure it made good TiVo box but being you can't reocrd min 704 to 720x480/576 and 48KHz audio which what is need for building DVD disk you have to re-render the entire movie which is a slow and tedious process.

[raindogg1]

What are the advantages of having the card Decode Mpeg-2 also? Do you think I could play Mpeg-2 movies without probs on a 333mhz computer with a card that decodes in hardware? Wouldn't a good video card do this?
Michael

[kitty]

We won't know until they post some specs/cut sheets

[SHS]

kitty I allready did that have look for your self
http://forum.vcdhelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=92295

[Tazzofemarr]

Tazzofemarr is wrong the drivers work just fine.

I was mearly pointing out the fact that Happauge has a hard time with drivers and that it takes them a Long time to fix them.
Its a Fact that Happauge is still working on drivers for there 880 model & win XP.
Its also a Fact that untill the latest Beta Drivers were released, there were problems with video and audio stutters, there was also audio sync problems. These are problems that have been arround from day 1.

In other words Happauge takes its sweet time to fix huge bugs with its products.

P.S. When it comes to fixing driver bugs. I Thank God nvidia dont take there sweet time like Happuage does.

[SHS]

As for WinXP it really need WDM drivers some have got lucky with XP some have not with VfW drivers.
It only been two month from last beta WDM drivers.
If you have VIA you will get audio sync problem no what you do to it even I my self try a VIA motherboard ho what fun it was it not WinTV-PVR that the problem it VIA junk chipset.
As for video and audio stutters that can be any of number thing that can cuase this problem bad Video drv or bad MPEG decode drv or bad AGP drv.
If you have ALi make sure you update the AGP drivers.

[raindogg1]

So, I ask again. What would I gain from paying for the mpeg-2 decode abilities of the top model WinTV-PVR? I can't think of a reason for this unless their Tivo type software links to the encode/decode hardware directly and saves massive CPU time. Does anyone know if this is true? If it is, and it performs leaps and bounds over using Nvidia to decode the Mpeg-2 then I'll buy one. But - bottom line- I still don't understand why someone would pay so much extra cash for mpeg-2 decoding when their video card probably already does?
I have a 333mhz machine that I want to make into a Tivo type recorder/viewer. I am trying to decide whether getting the PVR 250 or the 350 would be better for this.
Michael

[SHS]

Video card don't do realtime decode not even the ATI card but device like the Hollywood Plus or Xcard do if your looking realtime decoding on the PC monitor, Note this not like a Hollywood Plus or Xcard it only dose the decoding to the S-Video/Composite output or Soft Decoding to the PC Monitor it dosen't have a VIP port then could called a full blow decode but thoses chip do not do DVD disk decoding which is a diff story which is a lot red tape BS.

[raindogg1]

Then I am confused. What does the s-video out actually send out? I assume it does not send out the computer VGA signal. I thought it was just giving the TV tuner out - like the back of a VCR s-video out. If it is doing that then it is not in mpeg-2 format. Or can one tell the card, via software, an mpeg-2 video file to send out though s-video out? I'm totally confused!
Michael

[SHS]

Sorry raindogg1 I made a reply but the forum went south so my first replay got last need to say.
Your MPEG File is send direct to> iCompression iTVC15 (HW mpeg decoding side of the chip)it decode(Unzip or Uncompress) it and it then send it direct to the> Philips SAA7115 Video Digitizer which then convert the digital signel in to a analog signel and it send it direct thur the> S-Video/Composite output socket which is connect direct to the TV for viewing or Perviewing or to a VCR for Recording to tape or any other device you like.
A PC ver TV tuner out (aka Broadcast Out) cost to much like 3 to 4x more the reg VCR analog tuner which run in pure analog only.
There is any eazy way to get a round this problem it know RF modulator which you can pick up at you local RadioShack store for $30 (Cat Number is 15-1244).

[jkmin]

I am a novice in digital video, and my question may sound stupid. Iam still confused after reading raindogg1 post. I am looking at 2 product Wintv-pvr model350 and wintv-pvr model 250. Among the difference, the model350 has hardware decoing and model250 does not.
I know that hardware encoding takes load off the cpu. But,
in what terms, is it really advantageous to have the hardware decodidng, versus using the software decoding? I have a dvd player on my pc, and it plays any dvd well without any special hardware decoding chip(?), using software decoding only(I assume). What is the real benefit. Thank you.

[SHS]

The 250 vs 350 is that the 350 has FM and S-Video/Composite output socket, The 250 has the same iCompression iTVC15 chip as the 350 dose but without the FM and S-Video/Composite output socket and few other thing.

Hardware encode
Take load off the cpu.
High screen size recording 720x480(NTSC)*576(PAL).
Both CBR (constant bit rate), VBR (Variable Bit Rate) mode.
Can capture audio at 48 kHz.

Software encode
Put a heavy load on the cpu need very fast cpu for mpeg2 1GHz or better.
Low screen size recording 352x240(NTSC)*288(PAL) mpeg2 stuck with odd ball format size like 720x240(NTSC)*288(PAL) with PowerDVD and WinDVR or anyother soft base mpeg cap applications.
Only CBR (constant bit rate) mode.
Only capture audio at 44.1 kHz "DVD need 48 kHz so have to recode it"
you try to do anything else while it's recording you get dropped frames in your video.
Chech this out PVR to DVD also a long thread just about this PVR to DVD - The Awful Truth.

Hardware decoding
Take load off the cpu for both video and audio Note: 2spk out only.

Software decoding
Put a load on the cpu even with best video card like ATI and that with 2GHz cpu it still a load around 20% must of the other video are tab bit higher around 30% but that all depend the cpu speed you petty much need at less 500MHz so that windows dosen't do off thing thing like video lag when decode.

I was think of maybe later on talking to hauppauge in to supporting a hardware base card like the REALMagic Xcard which support directshow which should be able to read BIG FILES 2+GB which something that the REALMagic Hollywood Plus couldn't do but I can't make up my mind being there some downside to this card vs Soft DVD player like no DD 5.1 decoding to a sound card that support Soft S/PDIF or aka AC3 decoding on the SBAudigy or Soft 6spk decoding and I hate downmix to 2spk unless you got External DD 5.1 boxs like the Creative Inspire 5.1 Digital 5700 or Home DD 5.1 Receiver or some like that.

[raindogg1]

Thank you for the detailed responses SHS. So, I wonder, with the 350 if you can use the s/video out with timeshifting software? This would make it an (almost) standalone tivo type card.
It still costs too much for me though. I think I'll buy a good video card with tv-out, the WinTV-PVR 250 and try to make my 333mhz computer into a Tivo. Anyone think this wouldn't work with this card with a 333mhz cpu?
raindogg1

[SHS]

I think the two new WinTV-PVR have timeshifting but I don't have apps spec.
I think but I'am not 100% sure about it but I would have to say yes to the s/video out with timeshifting.

[Satan's Cheerleader]

are there any reviews of the pvr 350 yet?

[SHS]

No that may take some time part lee due to fact from what I under stand shipping the 250 order for this board all by it self they can't keep with order so it maybe month 1 or 2 before we see the 350 being ship.
Yes you see review of the 350 it not going be all that much diff from the 250 beside the fact that it has FM Radio and can do HW decode to the tv-out.

[Satan's Cheerleader]

then is there a review for the 250 yet?

[SHS]

No

[scooper]

SHS - it looks to me like that are no functional differences between the old model 880 and the new model 980 (the 250) - am I correct on that ?

And that being said, Is there any reason to get one (or not to get one) over the other ? I would be using these on Win2K .

Thanks.

[zamzickles]

I have the PCI model in a Win2k / VIA 333 board. It rocks. Don't use the native AVI capture because it doesn't work very well even with a 2Ghz processor. Having said that, the MPG2 encoding is excellent from 4-12. At 12 it's only playable on a PC, but the quality is great. Even at 4-8 the best you can put on a DVD, it's great. Very little interlace problems and minimal staircasing and motion-artifacts. I haven't seen a better MPG2 direct solution yet. If you want to go through the multi-step encoding process there may be better boards for capturing AVI (probably firewire and the Canopus external box) might be better, but who wants to spend a day trying to record and later encode a TV show? The final output is only as good as the source and I feed it with the SVIDEO signal coming from an HDTV decoder using satellite and local HDTV feeds. Some of the best video capture I've seen.

[scooper]

I've currently got the Creative Digital VCR, and it DOES NOT do what I really bought it for. I was looking really close at the 880 and it appears to me that the 980 (WinPVR250) is just an updated version of this (minus the FM radio, which doesn't bother me).

[SHS]

scooper update ver I think not the board are diff they don't even have same mpeg encode chip.
Go to my web site look under News and you see teo picture of the card.

[xiaNaix]

SHS, the 250 and 350 use the same encoder chip as the Navis Pro, right? Any reports as to quality with the 250? The price is certainly right.

[alkieman]

Hauppauge ARE well know for their buggy drivers and major problems. Windows XP has been available for almost a year and their drivers are still pretty poor. It's an effort to get it to work, but once you do, the quality is great. Under Windows 98 the drivers perform excellently but Win2000 and XP support IS BUGGY. I've owned the PVR for over a year and a half and thankfully it now works, but boy was it a major hassle getting it to do so well.

Hauppauge Technical support are also very poor, 4 times I emailed them and 4 times I got no reply. Sorry SHS, you may have a line to the top but for the rest of us mere mortals things aren't so good.

And almost a year is MORE than enough time for them to have perfected WDM drivers for the PVR cards on Windows XP and they still haven't done so. You only need to search through this forum for posts from other PVR owners to see the problems they have had.

On the other hand, almost all the MPEG encoder card manufacturers leave a lot to be desired when it comes to support and drivers.

[SHS]

xiaNaix as for same encoder chip as the Navis Pro, your right there.
There is a clip Navis Pro http://www.bernclare.com/navispro.htm which should be the same as WinTV-PVR 250 and 350.

alkieman Hauppauge went rigth to WDM drivers with two new PVR.
As for VfW under WinXP on old PVR they do OK but I really havn't had any problem with XP oh by way I hate XP anyway hehe even know I'am using it rigth now just for beta test DX9 for some off thing Unreal base game don't want run rigth under Win2000 which really off wall thing I haven't fig out why.
Jee that funny when I email them I alway get a reply with in a day or two ever call them, I have been use Hauppauge card all way back 1996.

Oh alkieman try Dazzle Technical support sometime.
alkieman what part of world do you live in?.

[alkieman]

I'm in Edinburgh, Scotland and haven't been very impressed with Hauppauge UK and their after sales support. It's good that others get better responses with their worldwide sites, I think Hauppauge should send their UK staff to some of the other countriesd to see how it should be done then.

It's a real shame because once you get things working the PVR card is excellent and the quality is exceptional for the costs. They really must make things less frustrating for end users however.

I haven't spoken to Dazzle in a couple of years. I used to own an external editing box but wasn't impressed with it and bought the Hauppauge card for AVI and MPEG capture/encoding and Studio 7 from Pinnacle for editing.

Like I said, once you get things working the card is excellent but under Windows XP is damn fiddly. Come on Hauppauge, give us full featured WDM drivers for us older PVR card owners.