Simple video to test black levels for certain?

[Asterra]

My situation: Using an Nvidia Shield running KODI -> Yamaha receiver -> JVC projector. The black levels are not good, but I had always accepted this as a consequence of digital front projector technology (D-ILA in this case).

The other day, I did something on a total whim: I brought up the receiver's menu, just to fiddle around with it. And I happened to notice that the receiver's UI was achieving much darker blacks than the "pure black" of videos played in KODI. It was honestly like the UI was 0 and the videos were bottoming out at 16. A classic conundrum that still occasionally rears its ugly head today.

The problem here is that it could be any of three different things going on. The receiver may be somehow truncating the HDMI passthrough. The Nvidia Shield may be inherently limiting the luminance range. Or KODI may be doing this. I know it's not the video itself because I can play the same thing on my PC and get actual pure blacks.

What I'm hoping to find here is some kind of "test video" I can run through KODI to help determine just what the source of this problem is.

[jagabo]

Here's one I made several years ago:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/374734-Superblacks-and-superwhites-question#post2414529

That image uses the same "limited range" standard that DVD, Blu-ray, and all streaming platforms use. On a properly setup system the black background and the black bars (16 and below) should be as dark as the TV can display. If you see something like the top image in that post something is not set up correctly. And that would explain why you're getting elevated blacks.

Attached is an 1080p version encoded with x264 in MKV.

[Sharc]

FWIW here a testclip I made some time ago.
The picture to the left shows a video in grayscale. The picture in the middle should be just black, the picture to the right should be white. If you clearly see the video in the middle (or right) picture you may consider to re-adjust the monitor.

[rgr]

FWIW here a testclip I made some time ago.
The picture to the left shows a video in grayscale. The picture in the middle should be just black, the picture to the right should be white. If you clearly see the video in the middle (or right) picture you may consider to re-adjust the monitor.

It has nothing to do with the monitor.
MPC (with MPC VR renderer) displays this clip correctly for me, while in WMP I see ranges 0-16 and 235-255.

[Sharc]

FWIW here a testclip I made some time ago.
The picture to the left shows a video in grayscale. The picture in the middle should be just black, the picture to the right should be white. If you clearly see the video in the middle (or right) picture you may consider to re-adjust the monitor.

It has nothing to do with the monitor.
MPC (with MPC VR renderer) displays this clip correctly for me, while in WMP I see ranges 0-16 and 235-255.

TV rather than monitor I mean. On TV the middle picture (Y<16) should be black, and the right picture (Y>235) should be white (TV range, limited range Y 16....235). With PC players you can select and convert between PC (full) or TV (limited) range.

[Alwyn]

Here, VLC centre is black, right is white, Films and TV I can see the fans in all, WMP it's C black and R white, "Media Player" (whatever that is) I can see the fans in all. VideoRedo, I see fans C and R, Virtual Dub default I see no fans.

[Sharc]

Here, VLC centre is black, right is white, Films and TV I can see the fans in all, WMP it's C black and R white, "Media Player" (whatever that is) I can see the fans in all. VideoRedo, I see fans C and R, Virtual Dub default I see no fans.

So WMP is different from what rgr reported.
Vdub converts the YUV clip to RGB color space.
Y<16 are "infra blacks", Y>235 are "super whites". There are other designations though.

[rgr]

[QUOTE=Sharc;2685131]

Here, VLC centre is black, right is white, Films and TV I can see the fans in all, WMP it's C black and R white, "Media Player" (whatever that is) I can see the fans in all. VideoRedo, I see fans C and R, Virtual Dub default I see no fans.

So WMP is different from what rgr reported. /QUOTE]

I think WMP behaves differently on each computer and it depends on the graphics drivers. I have Adrenaline and I don't see any adjustment options there, and I know that in others (Nvidia? Intel?) there is.

I know that MPC-HC (and MPC-BE) only behave correctly with the MPC-VR renderer. And with others differently (like WMP).

[jagabo]

Players can be set to full/limited range. The logical rendering device can be set to limited/full range. The graphics card can be set to limited/full range. The TV/Monitor can be set to limited/full range. It all depends on where the limited range YUV is converted to full range RGB for display. You have to go through everything and set things up correctly.

[rgr]

Players can be set to full/limited range. The logical rendering device can be set to limited/full range. The graphics card can be set to limited/full range. The TV/Monitor can be set to limited/full range. It all depends on where the limited range YUV is converted to full range RGB for display. You have to go through everything and set things up correctly.

I think the conversion is done in the renderer.

[jagabo]

Players can be set to full/limited range. The logical rendering device can be set to limited/full range. The graphics card can be set to limited/full range. The TV/Monitor can be set to limited/full range. It all depends on where the limited range YUV is converted to full range RGB for display. You have to go through everything and set things up correctly.

I think the conversion is done in the renderer.

The conversion can be done anywhere along the line, depending on how you have things set up.

[rgr]

Players can be set to full/limited range. The logical rendering device can be set to limited/full range. The graphics card can be set to limited/full range. The TV/Monitor can be set to limited/full range. It all depends on where the limited range YUV is converted to full range RGB for display. You have to go through everything and set things up correctly.

I think the conversion is done in the renderer.

The conversion can be done anywhere along the line, depending on how you have things set up.

I believe the actual conversion to RGB is only done in the player. The driver is only responsible for the form of RGB signal transmission to the monitor (RGB->RGB or RGB->YUV).
I don't have this option in Adrenaline -- it's probably only available with an HDMI connection (I'm using DVI).

[jagabo]

Players can be set to full/limited range. The logical rendering device can be set to limited/full range. The graphics card can be set to limited/full range. The TV/Monitor can be set to limited/full range. It all depends on where the limited range YUV is converted to full range RGB for display. You have to go through everything and set things up correctly.

I think the conversion is done in the renderer.

The conversion can be done anywhere along the line, depending on how you have things set up.

I believe the actual conversion to RGB is only done in the player.

No. Players are usually set up to pass the YUV to the renderer. Most renders pass that YUV to the graphics card. The graphics card usually converts the YUV to RGB, finally sending that RGB to the monitor/TV via the Displayport/HDMI/VGA cable. But systems can be set up differently. For example, VLC with the video output device set to "Windows GDI" will convert to RGB itself.

[rgr]

Yes, that's the renderer I meant.

[jagabo]

Players are usually set up to pass the YUV to the renderer.

Yes, that's the renderer I meant.

And the render usually sends that YUV to the graphics card's driver where it is usually converted to RGB for transmission over the cable to the monitor. This is to offload the YUV->RGB conversion to the graphics card's hardware.

Graphics card drivers usually have a video section where the conversion range can be specified. Here's the Intel driver on my computer:


[Attachment 69948 - Click to enlarge]

[Sharc]

....Films and TV I can see the fans in all, ....

@Alwyn: For my understanding, does "Films and TV" mean your TV is switched to 'film mode'?

[Alwyn]

does "Films and TV" mean your TV is switched to 'film mode'?

Nah, that's a player on my 'puter: it's one of the Right Click "Open With" options for your file. I think I must have installed it earlier.

[Sharc]

does "Films and TV" mean your TV is switched to 'film mode'?

Nah, that's a player on my 'puter: it's one of the Right Click "Open With" options for your file. I think I must have installed it earlier.

Thanks. I have this player installed as well. I think it is shipped with Windows. Here I don't see the fans using this player. Center picture is full black and right is full white (as I would have expected).

[rgr]

And the render usually sends that YUV to the graphics card's driver where it is usually converted to RGB for transmission over the cable to the monitor. This is to offload the YUV->RGB conversion to the graphics card's hardware.

How is my renderer doing?

And what does the Intel driver do when the source is in Full range?

There is also such a section in Adrenaline, but it is inactive with a DVI connection.

[jagabo]

And what does the Intel driver do when the source is in Full range?

There are three choices: Limited, Full, and None. Limited and Full force incoming YUV video to be converted to RGB with the specified matrix. So a full range video forced to limited range will display with crushed blacks and whites. The None setting assumes limited range when the range isn't specified by the video. If the range is specified by the video (and the player and all intermediate filters pass that information to the graphics driver) it is displayed properly.