Anyone tried this combination?

[lojelo5]

Thought I would give this a try seeing as we had to purchase a new Freesat recorder for the bedroom, we have a spare XS350EBK collecting dust.

I'm using a Panasonic FS200 - audio cables straight into the Lite-on, s-video passing through Panasonic DMR-XS350EBK, then recording to a Lite-on 760GX via s-video. I'm trying a few tapes at the minute some PAL & NTSC, I can't notice much difference at the moment until I have copied the files over to the PC. I highly doubt it will make much difference in quality but might aswell give it ago.

Anyone else ever tried this machine for passthrough? If so did you change any settings inside that made any kind of improvement!!

Cheers


Lojelo

[lojelo5]

Sorry took so long getting back with the outcome of this been a bit busy.

Anyway using the DMR-XS350EBK is a no go especially when recording NTSC tapes, take a look at these pictures the top on is using the DMR-XS350EBK as a passthrough device which also reduced the actual sound recording level quite a bit, the bottom picture is without the DMR-XS350EBK.

Even though it has left a straight line across the recording the picture looks brighter to me

[Attachment 60094 - Click to enlarge]

This one is without the DMR-XS350EBK no ghosting line but picture is slightly darker

[Attachment 60095 - Click to enlarge]

[oln]

Is that a NTSC or PAL recording? It looks a bit like NTSC (or PAL60 from a PAL VCR playing back NTSC) with capture card and/or dvd-recorder set to NTSC as it looks like there is a bunch of garbage at the bottom.

I don't know what would cause the line, is it moving up/down or is it stationary? (Could be some 50hz noise or grounding thing)

Brightness being boosted is a thing on older panasonics too, the AGC tends to brighten a bit too much unless you manually lower the signal level in some way.

[lojelo5]

Yes oln it's an NTSC tape, if you read what I have used in the top post you will see what I have tried.

There is no capture card involved I am using a Lite-on 760GX HDD to record. I am not bothered about the garbage at the bottom that can be cropped because the end result of the recording is 720x480 when I have cropped the garbage out. It's the ghosting line near the top this one it's a steady line and it's only doing it with NTSC tapes when recording PAL it's fine. It was just a test mate but I do actually like the way it's worked in some way because it's made it cleaner and picture looks much brighter.


[Attachment 60096 - Click to enlarge]

[Skiller]

I'm using a Panasonic FS200 - audio cables straight into the Lite-on, s-video passing through Panasonic DMR-XS350EBK

Do take note that this does produce an audio delay. Not so much that it would be blatantly obvious (probably 121 ms if it is like the more popular Panasonics) but it is there and should be corrected in post.

[lojelo5]

Yes it would do and could do if the audio was passing through the DMR-XS350EBK but like I have said it's not, the audio is going straight from the VCR to the Lite-on.

[Skiller]

Yes it would do and could do if the audio was passing through the DMR-XS350EBK

I believe you misunderstood me. The audio is going to have a negative delay (=too early) because it goes right into the recording device (Lite-on).
The processing the Panasonic does takes a small amount of time and thus any audio that doesn't pass through the Panasonic needs to be delayed accordingly.

[oln]

There is no capture card involved I am using a Lite-on 760GX HDD to record. I am not bothered about the garbage at the bottom that can be cropped because the end result of the recording is 720x480 when I have cropped the garbage out.

If you record NTSC as PAL you will have a lot of stutter and weirdness due do dropped frames, PAL is 25 fps while NTSC is 29.97 so about 1 out of 6 frames will be lost. I don't get why you would do it like that but you be you I guess. Is the Panasonic set to PAL or NTSC?

[lojelo5]

@ oln

It was just a test mate to see if the Panasonic DMR-XS350EBK could be used as a passthrough device like with the ES10/15 machines.

You can not set the Panasonic FS200 to PAL or NTSC it just detects the tapes you put in it and plays them accordingly this is a PAL machine with NTSC playback.

This is the same tape using the same FS200 straight into the Lite-on machine


[Attachment 60107 - Click to enlarge]

Now this is going through the DMR-XS350EBK


[Attachment 60108 - Click to enlarge]

the colours are much cleaner and brighter so it does work but leaves a ghost line on all NTSC recordings. I have just remembered something though I might try because I never turned off the TBC on the FS200 when recording this might be the problem it might not but I will give it ago tomorrow sometime.

Yes it would do and could do if the audio was passing through the DMR-XS350EBK

I believe you misunderstood me. The audio is going to have a negative delay (=too early) because it goes right into the recording device (Lite-on).
The processing the Panasonic does takes a small amount of time and thus any audio that doesn't pass through the Panasonic needs to be delayed accordingly.

I haven't seen any delay at all in any of the videos I have tested mate the only downsides are the ghosting and a lower level of sound recording, like I said it's only a test I won't be using the DMR-XS350EBK just thought I would give it a test see if it made any difference and it did but not what I wanted.

[oln]

I mean on the DMR-XS350EBK, you have to set it to NTSC for it to handle NTSC input properly (though I don't know if it properly supports the pseudo-NTSC signal the FS200 will output, at least the older panasonic dvd-recoders only support standard NTSC). I guess it does at least show that it has similar line-TBC/Jitter correction to other panasonic DVD-recorders.

The TBC on the FS200 only works for PAL afaik, so it doesn't matter if it's turned on or not on a NTSC tape.

[lojelo5]

ahh sorry oln....I have just looked at the settings now inside the DMR-XS350EBK the NTSC Video Output is set to PAL60 and I can set it to NTSC so might give it another go with that setting and see if the line goes away.

[Skiller]

The TBC on the FS200 only works for PAL afaik, so it doesn't matter if it's turned on or not on a NTSC tape.

Correct. I have a PAL FS200 myself and it's line TBC is forced off when playing NTSC tapes.

[lojelo5]

Just tested it set NTSC Video Output to NTSC but the line is still there but the quality of the picture is cleaner and brighter in places.

I have uploaded 2 files of the same tape recording (this tape is old and it's dark to begin with)

1st file is without using the DMR 2nd file is using the DMR (with the ghosting line) I haven't touched these files just cut them.

without
https://1fichier.com/?naau8x6m5yaftl4h3978

using
https://1fichier.com/?514mu8w1su5e4pmeui14


These are the mp4 conversions

using
https://1fichier.com/?3sfhdlaxso0cf1861st2

without
https://1fichier.com/?3ij4udpi19blypzvtjow



@ Skiller do you notice any difference when turning off the noise filter and then using the TBC? with NTSC tapes.

[Skiller]

@ Skiller do you notice any difference when turning off the noise filter and then using the TBC? with NTSC tapes.

The TBC of the FS200 is entirely deactivated as soon as an NTSC tape is playing. In general, with any tape, "Noise filter = on" doesn't really seem to do anything over the usual VHS HQ filtering which you also get with the setting set to off (in other words, no I never saw a difference with any tape). But I always use Edit. In Edit the archaic VHS HQ filtering is omitted and it outputs a slightly more detailed picture with a little bit more noise which can easily be filtered later. In Edit the sharpness slider also has no function which is good (we don't want 80's technology sharpening).