VHS to Hauppauge HD PVR2 - Magenta and green colouring

[sj416]

I’m attempting to transfer VHS (NTSC) tapes to my Macbook through an Hauppauge HD PVR 2, using HDPVRCapture software. My “best” attempts are resulting in this atrocity:


[Attachment 52717 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 52718 - Click to enlarge]

(That dude's supposed to be laying in grass.)

I’m using the Hauppauge model with the thin rectangular AV input in the back, with the connecter that has composite inputs (this sucker: https://www.hauppauge.com/pages/webstore2/webstore_avcable-colossus-hdpvr2.html).

I’ve successfully used this Hauppauge device to record from my cable box, using the same HDPVRCapture software. I’m also able to view these same tapes perfectly with this VCR when it’s hooked up to my tv.

I’ve tried using two different Macbooks, and two sets of RCA cables. I tested the HDMI upscaler on other devices, and it’s functional.



Attempt 1:

VCR -> RCA cables from RCA out to Hauppauge composite input -> Hauppauge usb to Macbook = sound great, picture is black and white

Attempt 2:

VCR -> composite cables from RCA out to Hauppauge composite input -> Hauppauge usb to Macbook = sound great, picture is black and white


I made these attempts pairing the RCA yellow to composite green and got the above results. Tried composite blue, and got no picture at all.


Attempt 3:

VCR -> RCA cables out to HDMI upscaler-> HDMI to Hauppauge -> Hauppauge usb out to Macbook = green/magenta discoloration

Attempt 4:

VCR -> composite cables out to HDMI upscaler-> HDMI to Hauppauge -> Hauppauge usb out to Macbook = green/magenta discoloration


Past answers suggest that this part could be a fix:

https://www.hauppauge.com/pages/webstore2/webstore_avcable-svideo.html

But the cost of shipping to Canada (plus the exchange rate) is brutal, and I don’t want pay for it unless it’s a sure thing.

Is there anything else I can try that would be less cost-prohibitive?

[DB83]

That is not a composite connector cable. It is a component connector.

[DB83]

The second cable is the correct one.

[jagabo]

The first two results suggest you have a PAL60 issue. An NTSC video tape played in an PAL VHS deck. You need a capture device that can handle PAL60.

[sj416]

The first two results suggest you have a PAL60 issue. An NTSC video tape played in an PAL VHS deck. You need a capture device that can handle PAL60.

So, the VCR is a Sony SLV-N500, which is an NTSC deck (and the same deck I used to record most of the VHS tapes I'm trying to convert). Are you saying that the tape isn't compatible with the deck? If that was the case, wouldn't this discoloration also appear when I connect the deck to my tv?

(Sorry if I'm slow to understand - this definitely isn't my wheelhouse.)

[jagabo]

The PAL60 problem occurs when playing NTSC tapes in a PAL VHS deck. The deck outputs a signal with NTSC timing (525 lines, 60 fields per second) but with color on a PAL 4.43 MHz carrier (NTSC uses a 3.58 MHz carrier). PAL TVs are designed to display this properly (60 fields per second, proper color). Most capture devices are not -- they deliver a greyscale image. If you are using an NTSC tape in in NTSC player this is not your problem. Even a PAL tape in an NTSC player probably wouldn't do this.

I tried to figure out what exactly was wrong with the colors in the sample images but it didn't look like any of the obvious causes. What color is the guys shirt supposed to be?

[DB83]

Sorry. But what part of my earlier reply do you not understand ?


I do not know the consequence of pairing a composite output (VCR) to a device that expects a component input (Hauppauge cable) but common sense dictates that things will not be right. The capture software will have settings for both composite and component input yet neither are going to work with this arrangement.


And why did other equipment work ? Simple. They have component output.

[sj416]

Sorry. But what part of my earlier reply do you not understand ?

I'm doing my best here. I tried component cables, sorry for getting the word wrong (though that probably would've been discernible when you looked at the first Hauppauge accessory I linked to). I don't know what you mean by "other equipment."

[sj416]

The PAL60 problem occurs when playing NTSC tapes in a PAL VHS deck. The deck outputs a signal with NTSC timing (525 lines, 60 fields per second) but with color on a PAL 4.43 MHz carrier (NTSC uses a 3.58 MHz carrier). PAL TVs are designed to display this properly (60 fields per second, proper color). Most capture devices are not -- they deliver a greyscale image. If you are using an NTSC tape in in NTSC player this is not your problem. Even a PAL tape in an NTSC player probably wouldn't do this.

I tried to figure out what exactly was wrong with the colors in the sample images but it didn't look like any of the obvious causes. What color is the guys shirt supposed to be?

It's a reddish shirt. Basically, everything takes on a magenta colour, except for blacks (which become green).

[DB83]

Sorry. But what part of my earlier reply do you not understand ?

I'm doing my best here. I tried component cables, sorry for getting the word wrong (though that probably would've been discernible when you looked at the first Hauppauge accessory I linked to). I don't know what you mean by "other equipment."

So what does this mean in your original post "I tested the HDMI upscaler on other devices, and it’s functional"


A cable is just a dull piece of wire with a plug. What matters is the output from the VCR and the capture settings on the software. But the connector expects (in my book) to have yellow from the VCR going in to yellow on the connector for video and selecting 'Composite' on the software. Red and White(or Black) on the second cable are only for audio. But you have three connections for video. Three from one just does not fit.


Otherwise why would Hauppauge make two connectors ?


Now if your VCR has component output (check the manual) you take three cables from the VCR - colour is irrelevant as long as you ensure that the cable matched the colour on the VCR to the Hauppuage but cables do tend to have matching colours on each end just to make things 'foolproof' - in to the three connectors on the cable and select 'Component'. Yet there is a perfectly solid reason why you can not do this.

[gll99]

I own the Hauppauge 1512 PVR2 and what you have been told is true. It came with the flat component breakout cable but not the composite one. The 1212 model had the composite built on but wasn't an hdmi model.

What I did recently is order a small RCA to HDMI up-scaler (720p or 1080p) / connector changer. Mine is metallic and I paid about $19 for it on Amazon.ca. Unfortunately the one I bought is out of stock right now but there are other similar models You could input the hdmi-out to your PVR2. Read carefully some may be pass through models but I don't know enough about them I just ordered the one I thought was best for me. I can't vouch for even the one I got since I haven't tried it yet.

https://www.amazon.ca/LiNKFOR-Composite-Converter-Adapter-Support/dp/B0722QX2Y5/ref=pd...329SCHHHBGFKN5

[DB83]

What I did fail to appreciate was the introduction of additional hardware - the HDMI upscaler - in to the capture chain.


Even so, there is a famous saying >> 'Do not try to run before you learn to walk'. That translates to ensuring that you have a proper picture from VCR to PC via the capture device since the introduction of more hardware only serves to confuse the issue.

[jagabo]

Is this a commercial VHS tape? Maybe a Macrovision response on the part of the upscaler?

Just some information:

If you view the red, green, and blue channels separately as greyscale images you see:

[Attachment 52727 - Click to enlarge]

looking at a random image of a girl in a red jacket lying in green grass:

[Attachment 52728 - Click to enlarge]

You can see there's some major problem in the green channel of your cap. Notice how the black letterbox bars are medium grey in the red channel. They should be black. And there's not enough contrast in the red channel. I don't think that's the only problem but it's a hint...

[dellsam34]

What I did fail to appreciate was the introduction of additional hardware - the HDMI upscaler - in to the capture chain.


Even so, there is a famous saying >> 'Do not try to run before you learn to walk'. That translates to ensuring that you have a proper picture from VCR to PC via the capture device since the introduction of more hardware only serves to confuse the issue.

I agree, A lot of people fail to understand that capturing an analog video meaning converting it from analog to digital, In this case if you add a composite to HDMI adapter meaning that you shifted the capturing task from the Hauppauge device to the HDMI device which in most cases are crappy devices to begin with, so the Hauppauge device becomes just an adapter that streams HDMI digital signal to computer. Instead of trying to fix the problem you end up adding more layers of problems.

Reading thru the OP post I have the same feeling that he is using the wrong breakout cable for the job.

[dellsam34]

To the OP, Can you post a picture of the back of your Hauppauge device so we can guide you to the right breakout cable, Unless your VCR has component (Red/Green/Blue) output which I doubt it does you are using the wrong cable, therefore you are feeding the wrong signals to the device.

[DB83]

Well the OP has a link to the Hauppauge site that shows the break-out cable he is using and his description does say words to the effect of 'connecting yellow to blue/green'


In my book, from the beginning that nailed the basic capture issue. I never even considered PAL60 (he said he is in Canada and capturing NTSC) or mv. Bring in the HDMI device and we might even have to discuss HDCP.


A photograph of the back of the VCR (have not tried to outsource a user manual) would be just as useful.

[dellsam34]

I just looked at the user manual and the VCR is a low end model with composite and stereo audio input/output and also learned that he is using a discontinued model with flat breakout connector that looks like the PS3 one, Newer models use a round connector. So yep he definitely needs that cable with expensive shipping tag.

[gll99]

As I sadi I have a PVR2 with the same connectors and I'm also in Canada.

The PVR2 accepts either HDMI or component input using the component dongle provided by Hauppauge with the PVR2 unit at the time of purchase. They do not include the "video yellow + red white audio" breakout composite connector with the PVR2 and that's the problem. It has to be bought separately but he doesn't want to buy it because it's too expensive to ship to Canada.

So it appears that at first in his early attempts the op was trying to connect the yellow composite connector from his VCR to one of the color RGB connectors on the PVR2 and that is producing a crappy image. See jagabo's post above with the bw images. It will not work properly so that's out and should be abandoned as a waste of time!


So what are the options?

1) The op could buy the composite dongle but that's off the table due to cost

2) He could buy a totally separate av capture device for about $15ca but those are software capture devices and he asked specifically about connecting to his PVR2.

3) He could buy a composite to component converter but those seem to run in the $200 range. Sounds like it's out of his budget.

This #4 is what I believe we should be concentrating on.

4) He needs to convert his composite signal to something else and since the PVR2 accepts either HDMI or component input and a component converter is too expensive that leaves only "a composite to HDMI scaler" at less than $20 which seems very reasonable.

Given the circumstances and cost limitations, it's inescapable so there is no reason to question the need to add more hardware to the chain. You just can't go from a vcr composite-out to a component or HDMI input without another piece of hardware to convert the signal.

The op may already have such a scaler device which it seems to be what he says in his "Attempt 4". Are we talking about the same type of up-scaler as I mentioned in my previous post? I tested mine tonight with a commercial and a home tape also and it works but my equipment and setup could be different so we need to hear more from the op

One caution. When I first plugged in the scaler I used the 5v usb cable they provided with a wall plug I use for a phone and although it lit up I had no picture. The PVR2 did not recognize it at all. I plugged the scaler into a usb port (for power) on my computer and it solved the problem.

Just to be clear my VCR doesn't care about Macrovison and I connect the hdmi to a 4 way splitter before going to the pvr2. I left it that way for ease of reach the way my devices are mounted. All things considered just looking at his "Attempt 4" in the op's case it could a bad composite or hdmi cable or maybe one is improperly seated, the type of upscaler or as was already mentioned macrovision could be an issue if your vcr recognizes it. Because my VCR ignores macrovision, I use a 4 way splitter and my upscaler seems compatible then I don't see any discoloration issue so mine works fine.

btw) As an afterthought did you check the PVR2's "Device settings" and then "video proc amp" in case you messed up the Hue and Saturation settings. . That could sure create some funny looking colors.

[jagabo]

1) The op could buy the composite dongle but that's off the table due to cost

He said he didn't want to spend the money unless it was sure to work. So it's not off the table.

[godai]

hey there guys where you located. i have ramdoms vhs players atsc. but i need a pal one. i suppose you are in europe we can trade one atsc by one pal. just shipping cost. i have a good ebay account. i dont know if i can do this here if not sorry.

i only have one pal tape and its not way to make it work without pal vhs player.

[DB83]

Well the composite cable sold direct by Hauppaugge is more likely to work (he could always ask them to confirm the suitability for his version of the PVR) than randomly inserting cable plugs in to connectors since the are the right shape. The flat connector looks identical to the one on my USB-2 Live which is detachable.


But if the HDMI upscaler only accepts component then that is not going to work either hence these odd colors.


I can understand the OP not wishing to spend due to shipping costs but it is still the most cost-effective solution with this PVR since a decent usb capture device will invariabley cost even more (the USB-2 Live, for example, could set him back $50)

[gll99]

Well the composite cable sold direct by Hauppaugge is more likely to work (he could always ask them to confirm the suitability for his version of the PVR) than randomly inserting cable plugs in to connectors since the are the right shape. The flat connector looks identical to the one on my USB-2 Live which is detachable.


But if the HDMI upscaler only accepts component then that is not going to work either hence these odd colors.


I can understand the OP not wishing to spend due to shipping costs but it is still the most cost-effective solution with this PVR since a decent usb capture device will invariabley cost even more (the USB-2 Live, for example, could set him back $50)

Agreed that the most direct route is the Hauppauge composite dongle but a concern is that if he buys it and he has a Macrovision issue it will still be a problem. We don't know if his VCR sends the Macrovision or any other protection signals and if Hauppauge checks it on the dongle's composite input pin. That's why there is no 100% guarantee that buying the composite connector will work for him.

On your 2nd point, it is my understanding of his steps that at first he went from VCR composite-out to component-in on the PVR2 directly and did not use an up-scaler but we already know that will not work. After that it appears that he used an up-scaler. Although he says composite cables out he doesn't specify the input on the converter which should be composite-in to HDMI-out to be of any use.

Attempt 4:

VCR -> composite cables out to HDMI upscaler-> HDMI to Hauppauge -> Hauppauge usb out to Macbook = green/magenta discoloratio

As you said using a component to HDMI converter would be a wasted step so hopefully that's not the case. It would be important to know the brand and model of his up-scaler to remove that as a duh! situation. Although I doubt that a component to hdmi converter would be called an up-scaler

If he does have the right up-scaler then another potential issue that has already been mentoned is a HDCP handshake problem. I went through a 4 way splitter in my test so eliminated that possibility but the op may not have one of those. It's not clear if HDCP would completely block the signal or cause some type of signal degradation Even though it will be a pain in the butt to reach my PVR2 with my cabling since it's bugging me to know I will try to bypass the splitter later today to see if there is any issue going from an up-scaler directly to the PVR2.

[DB83]

Yes. It would help if the OP came back and actually told us the make/model of the HDMI upscaler he is attempting to use.


Having said that, a quick look on fleabay reveals that most of these boxes actually have composite input so that would be fine from the VCR.


Yet these would not be designed with capturing in mind but just to send an upscaled picture to the HD display. His PVR appears to support HD input so maybe he has simply selected the wrong source at the capture software end if, as has been stated, one now ignores the original source ie composite and focuses in on a HD input that matches what the upscaler is outputting.

[gll99]

Ok I said I would bypass my splitter to help the op possibly isolate a problem with his video.

I did this and connected the output form my up-scaler directly to the PVR2. Two home tapes and a cheap commercial cowboy movie showed no colour change like the op has in his images. I then tried a true commercial tape of an original near pristine 1997 Star Wars Special Edition and this time there were a series of about 8 or more (I didn't count them) evenly spaced horizontal lines across the screen that didn't go away as the tape played. I rewound and tried again but it was the same. I then reconnected the hdmi to my splitter again and the lines disappeared. Even though I didn't get the same discoloration issue as the op which could be tape and VCR dependent, it shows that there can definitely be an issue feeding a VHS signal through the HDMI up-scaler and connecting it directly to the PVR2.

[SHS]

As I sadi I have a PVR2 with the same connectors and I'm also in Canada.

The PVR2 accepts either HDMI or component input using the component dongle provided by Hauppauge with the PVR2 unit at the time of purchase. They do not include the "video yellow + red white audio" breakout composite connector with the PVR2 and that's the problem. It has to be bought separately but he doesn't want to buy it because it's too expensive to ship to Canada.

So it appears that at first in his early attempts the op was trying to connect the yellow composite connector from his VCR to one of the color RGB connectors on the PVR2 and that is producing a crappy image. See jagabo's post above with the bw images. It will not work properly so that's out and should be abandoned as a waste of time!


So what are the options?

1) The op could buy the composite dongle but that's off the table due to cost

2) He could buy a totally separate av capture device for about $15ca but those are software capture devices and he asked specifically about connecting to his PVR2.

3) He could buy a composite to component converter but those seem to run in the $200 range. Sounds like it's out of his budget.

This #4 is what I believe we should be concentrating on.

4) He needs to convert his composite signal to something else and since the PVR2 accepts either HDMI or component input and a component converter is too expensive that leaves only "a composite to HDMI scaler" at less than $20 which seems very reasonable.

Given the circumstances and cost limitations, it's inescapable so there is no reason to question the need to add more hardware to the chain. You just can't go from a vcr composite-out to a component or HDMI input without another piece of hardware to convert the signal.

The op may already have such a scaler device which it seems to be what he says in his "Attempt 4". Are we talking about the same type of up-scaler as I mentioned in my previous post? I tested mine tonight with a commercial and a home tape also and it works but my equipment and setup could be different so we need to hear more from the op

One caution. When I first plugged in the scaler I used the 5v usb cable they provided with a wall plug I use for a phone and although it lit up I had no picture. The PVR2 did not recognize it at all. I plugged the scaler into a usb port (for power) on my computer and it solved the problem.

Just to be clear my VCR doesn't care about Macrovison and I connect the hdmi to a 4 way splitter before going to the pvr2. I left it that way for ease of reach the way my devices are mounted. All things considered just looking at his "Attempt 4" in the op's case it could a bad composite or hdmi cable or maybe one is improperly seated, the type of upscaler or as was already mentioned macrovision could be an issue if your vcr recognizes it. Because my VCR ignores macrovision, I use a 4 way splitter and my upscaler seems compatible then I don't see any discoloration issue so mine works fine.

btw) As an afterthought did you check the PVR2's "Device settings" and then "video proc amp" in case you messed up the Hue and Saturation settings. . That could sure create some funny looking colors.

With the HD-PVR 2 or Colossus 2 the Component blue RCA input is same for Composite signal and set Hauppauge Capture Composite input all done the only reason to get that other cable if want S/Video Input

[SHS]

I own the Hauppauge 1512 PVR2 and what you have been told is true. It came with the flat component breakout cable but not the composite one. The 1212 model had the composite built on but wasn't an hdmi model.

What I did recently is order a small RCA to HDMI up-scaler (720p or 1080p) / connector changer. Mine is metallic and I paid about $19 for it on Amazon.ca. Unfortunately the one I bought is out of stock right now but there are other similar models You could input the hdmi-out to your PVR2. Read carefully some may be pass through models but I don't know enough about them I just ordered the one I thought was best for me. I can't vouch for even the one I got since I haven't tried it yet.

https://www.amazon.ca/LiNKFOR-Composite-Converter-Adapter-Support/dp/B0722QX2Y5/ref=pd...329SCHHHBGFKN5

Or one that dose specified 4.43 NTSC
https://www.amazon.com/GANA-Composite-Converter-Adapter-Supporting/dp/B01L8GG6PW?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_4

[hhyyend]

So how did this finally end? I have the same problem...

[DB83]

So if you had actually read the posts in this thread you would have gleaned a potential solution that the OP was not prepared to try (or if he did he was not gracious enough to come back here and report)


Now if you have tried the bespoke composite break-out cable (see the links) and not rely on the component break-out cable that is supplied, then do, for the benefit of others, report back. But if you have not then you can hardly expect any different result.

[usually_quiet]

So how did this finally end? I have the same problem...

As already mentioned the member who started this thread hasn't been back since 2020.

However, using the A/V adapter cable (composite video+S-video+stereo audio breakout cable) shouldn't make a difference. According to Hauppauge, if you don't have the Hauppauge A/V adapter cable, then you connect the yellow composite video cable from the source to the blue component video RCA jack on the A/V Component video cable. There should be a setting in the HDPVR Capture software's input panel that can be selected to specify that you are capturing from a composite video source. If there is no such setting or the setting doesn't fix the video, that is a problem

[DB83]

^^ Well that was mentioned a few posts ago.


But I just wonder since the issue from the OP is that he is using a mac that the correct cable is essential. I did not see any comment in the install instructions of the 1512 in respect of composite >> blue component.