Where to start to edit 8mm to DVD conversions?

[Celtic Dreamer]

So, I have what I thought would be a fairly straightforward project and am ready to pull my hair out.

Recently I had a bunch of old 8mm home videos transferred to DVD's. This however was basically just a raw dump onto the DVD's.

The goal: To import these DVDs onto my computer, Edit them (basically cut into clips based on the day/event, add a few title frames, nothing super complicated). I would then like to take the created clips and burn them to DVD's in the order I'd like with a selectable menu. The DVD needs to be playable on a regular DVD player.

So far I've tried using Handbrake to rip the DVD's, windows movie maker to edit, and then DVD styler to burn the CD.

A short video I created with movie maker that is basically a picture slide show with audio did work. However, any of the home videos end up very pixelated when viewed on my computer with VLC media player and won't play at all in my DVD player on the TV.

Suggestions please!

[jagabo]

If you're not going to filter your videos you want to maintain the original MPEG 2 data that's on the DVDs as much as possible, avoiding any re-compression. Use a program like mpg2cut2 (it's ugly but it's free and it works) to trim/extract/merge the clips you want from the VOB files to MPG files. Then you an author a DVD from those clips directly.

[Celtic Dreamer]

What about being able to add titles/captions? Can I still edit the clips with Windows Movie Maker and use those to create a DVD or would I need a higher end program?

[orsetto]

Aside from your software workflow not being optimal, your biggest issue is you approached this project from the wrong end of the telescope.

Standard video DVDs should come at the end of all your tinkering and editing, not the beginning: DVD conversions from analog videotape generally make lousy source material for further alterations. You would have been better served by these tapes being converted to a standard PC video format, as close to lossless as possible. DVD conversions made direct from analog videotape are "lossy" - you lose some PQ headroom right off the bat, which can lead to trouble later. Also, in my personal experience, once an analog videotape has been converted to DVD it is very difficult to "reverse-engineer" it back out again without significant degradation. You only have two choices, and neither is ideal. Your current method: convert the DVD back to PC video with something like Handbrake, do your alterations, then convert it a third time into yet another dvd (yuck). Or you can pull the actual VOB files off the DVD with a utility like VOB2MPG, perform your edits on the resulting .mpg video files, then re-author the edited .mpgs back into the VOB containers used by the DVD Video format.

As jagabo noted, this second route should be totally transparent in theory, with no reduction in quality from the original dvd source material- but it doesn't always work out that way. I usually obtain crappy results from that workflow, although I have forum friends who swear by it. It does work beautifully with dvds made from digital video sources, but if the dvd was made from analog videotape, I typically find everything goes to hell when the VOBs are changed to MPG. Try this method with one of your DVD recordings: if it works acceptably, it would be the easiest/least expensive option.

If you have a LOT of material to edit, and you want to work on it extensively, my suggestion would be to bite the financial bullet and have the 8mm tapes digitized a second time- directly to a standard PC video format. This way you'll always have the originals archived in as high quality as possible, you'll (potentially) skip two needless lossy conversion steps, and the resulting DVDs will be much better. Its a tough decision if you've already paid a substantial price to make the dvd conversions.

[Celtic Dreamer]

Dang, I explained the end goal to the person who did the conversions for me. I wish he had explained that to me and given me the digital formats. I have now had success using mpg2cut2 to simply cut and export clips. I then imported the .mpegs created by mpg2cut2 to DVD Styler to burn the DVD's. The resulting DVD played on my TV using a regular DVD player and didn't notice any loss of quality compared to the original DVD's.

I did however try to open the .mpg files created from mpg2cut2 in Movie maker and got an error. Too large a file perhaps?

Wish there was an editor I could use to add a few basic titles/captions/transitions but if not I at least have something that works.

Thanks for the help and suggestions. Much appreciated.

[Cornucopia]

#1 Don't worry about needing to work with Movie Maker. Best to use a better app anyway.

#2 You don't necessarily need to burn in captions (which would entail re-encoding and subsequent quality loss anyway). You can just make a DVD-compliant subtitle track, which would be authored along with the A/V assets and once muxed would allow for optional overlay upon playback.

Scott

[manono]

#2 You don't necessarily need to burn in captions (which would entail re-encoding and subsequent quality loss anyway). You can just make a DVD-compliant subtitle track, which would be authored along with the A/V assets and once muxed would allow for optional overlay upon playback.

Yes. And another way might be to create DVD-compliant text screens to be played before the sections being described. Then you'd split the video into sections with the text screens added in between the various sections before everything gets joined back together again. No reencode (except for the text screens), no loss of quality.

And a third way might be to create spoken descriptions that become a part of the audio track.

But, if it fits into your idea of the finished product, I'd endorse the subtitle idea for the text descriptions. They could also be made 'forced' so you wouldn't have to turn them on in order to get them to play - they'd play automatically.

And I also think making a DVD directly from the films was about the worst thing you could have done if you planned on working on the material afterwards.

[redwudz]

Celtic Dreamer, in the future please use a more descriptive subject title in your posts to allow others to search for similar topics. I will change yours this time. From our rules:

Try to choose a subject that describes your topic.
Please do not use topic subjects like Help me!!! or Problems.

Thanks,

Moderator redwudz

[johnmeyer]

Womble makes several software programs that let you losslessly edit (except for a few frames around the edit point) MPEG-2 files. They have a free trial:

MPEG Video Wizard DVD 5.0

[jagabo]

VideoRedo also has "smart" MPEG 2 editing (only cut GOPs reencoded).

[johnmeyer]

VideoRedo also has "smart" MPEG 2 editing (only cut GOPs reencoded).

Thanks for remembering VideoRedo. It too has features that let you assemble a DVD from various VOB and MPEG-2 clips you have losslessly edited. It's interface is a little less quirky than Womble. I use them both, but because I owned Womble first, I use it a little more (because I'm more familiar with it). I've had them both for over a decade and use them at least once a month.

[theewizard]

Movie Maker !!
there is better software out there

i would use videoRedo (not free) to import your current dvd files, and edit them, this program will smart code only on the cut frames, copying all untouched frames
And output the clips as DVD compatible mpeg2 or as dvd vobs,

then use styler or avstodvd to author the DVD, this is where you make the title sets and add any captions or subtitles, chapters etc.
these programs will import compatible video clips and author with out recoding, if told to do so (check the correct box) in preferences

[KarMa]

Mpg2Cut2 was probably the first MPEG2 cutter program I ever used, for cutting without having to encode. It works alright but the cut points tended to have audio pops and small amounts of visible damage, while decoding the GOP around the cut points. Also tended to lose sync after each cut, which added up after a few cuts. It works ok for one or two cuts but would strongly suggest Videoredo if you want better looking cuts and sync. Videoredo also has a nice and fast GUI. The MPEG2 only version is cheaper than the H.264 version.

I was using mpg2cut2 to cut up over the air 1080i tv broadcasts, so you might have better luck with cleaner DVD sources.