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Sort of kidding, but I think I am going to use up this 1tb hd within a year with these file sizes. Gots to have 1080p DTS, Atmos, the whole nine yards. Saw a 5tb listed on Amazon for cheap. Anybody know of something realistic that would last a lifetime?
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Realistic? That would last a lifetime?
RAID6, with some upkeep, could last indefinitely.
I currently have 8 3tb WD Reds in RAID6 for a total of 16.3TB, but I ran out of space a while ago and really need to replace all the drives with their 6TB counterparts. -
I remember in the early 90s when my mom was picking out a computer, her coworker told her she would never need more than the 500MB HDD that came with an IBM PS2.
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No. And it obviously depends largely on what you are doing. And you are obviously constantly adding content, which will likely begin to take up more space as technology is constantly changing and file sizes getting larger. But at your current rate of 1TB a year and you do this for 50 years, you would need a 50TB drive right now. Current new drives are up to 8TB. So like everyone else, you will simply need to add a new drive whenever you run out of space. The sweet spot in the market right now are 3TB or 4TB drives, about $100-120, sometimes cheaper if you watch sales. Anything larger and you are paying a premium.
Google is your Friend -
I was always decent at math but isn't 8*3 24 tb? Where did I lose track? I get it, you can only have 6 at a time...There is a 5tb on Amazon for less than a 4. I guess I could just get the 5tb. I don't see the purpose of the Raid. I did a little reading, but in short does it just keep all your hd together. Please elaborate. I could just switch them out when I want a movie. I want a petabyte, they are only about the price of a small home.Originally Posted by ndjamena
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According to the online RAID capacity calc, it works out to 18GB (so, pretty close to the state 16). That's because there is overhead due to the fault-tolerance/parity-checking/duplication strategy.
Me, I stopped using RAID 5 or 6, because the increasing odds of similar-generation remaining drives crapping out DURING a spare rebuild makes it untenable for HUGE drive capacities any more. I use RAID 10 (aka 1+0, aka 0+1 - though they are slightly different). Yes, I lose 1/2 the overall raw capacity due to the full-duplication, but I gain only-slightly-reduced performance yet continued normal operation during rebuilds, including backing up, along with (~1.5x-2x) increased read speeds all the (regular) time. Of course, these days, drive space is the thing we have most of, so no big loss anyway. I have 2 RAID 10 systems currently (so 4x4TB + 4x2TB = 24TB/2 = 12TB), and wouldn't change back.
Scott -
. Now what if you could get your hands on a petabyte and just attach to your pc as an external hd. You might change all this complication. Ok who's got the peta drive, quit all the small time playing around.I have 2 RAID 10 systems currently (so 4x4TB + 4x2TB = 24TB/2 = 12TB), and wouldn't change back.
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$$$$.
Plus, just having size doesn't necessarily make it fast enough nor secure/fault-tolerant enough for the job.
Scott -
Not sure I follow. I thought this was just a storage purpose. All I would be doing is saving my movies/music so I dont have to delete them. If I happen to want to watch one, just transfer it to the pc?Originally Posted by Cornucopia
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If you are REALLY serious about "lifetime", then ZFS is really the only way to go.
'Do I look absolutely divine and regal, and yet at the same time very pretty and rather accessible?' - Queenie -
Looks to me like it might be easier to get a tennis match with old Larry than it would be to find one of these. Where do they sell them, and how much do they store? Why not a 30,50.100, or even 500tb. Why do I need to jump all the way to a peta? Not that I can afford one.Originally Posted by ron spencer
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8 x 3 = 24tb
minus two drives for parity.
6 x 3 = 18tb
Then there's the RAID partition info, then the NTSF file system, not to mention WD uses 1000 bytes to a kilobyte where windows uses 1024... In the end I'm left with 16.3TB to use for Blu Ray rips. Which isn't enough.
I think RAID 10 would be too expensive, I have only eight 3.5 inch slots in my case, so I'd need to buy an eternal Rackmount to fit any more... which is the plan... but I still don't have proper curtains yet... and one of my drives just died. Decent RAID controllers cost $2000 AU... By scrimping I managed to save $3000 in six months last year... -
Parity==. What does it mean in your sense?Originally Posted by ndjamena
I assume an external hd worked in theory the same way as a thumb drive does. This is sounding rather complex. I am at 700gb left out of a 1tb drive. Just got it though. Maybe start out with the 5tb. Hopefully by needed time there will be an app priced 10tb.Last edited by mlmiller707; 27th Nov 2015 at 21:57.
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6 drives contain data, the other two contain information to rebuild at most two other drives if they fail. It's what RAID is all about.
RAID 5 has a single parity drive. If a drive in the array fails, you can install another one and the information in it will be rebuilt from what's in the other drives.
RAID 6 has two parity drives, so if two drives fail the information in them can both be rebuilt from the information in the other drives.
RAID 1 gives each drive it's own mirror, effectively cutting storage capacity in half, but you can lose between one and half the drives and still rebuild the information in it.
RAID 0 just combines several drives into a single drive with higher throughput (but the same latency)
10, 50 and 60 are just combinations of RAIDs 1,5,6 with 0. I don't think 2 to 4 are used much anymore.Last edited by ndjamena; 28th Nov 2015 at 05:38.
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Interesting. Why is it that these drives are so destined to fail. Are they not the same principle as the hd in my pc now? Never had an hd fail, I assume if I got BSOD that some tech could manage to get my data off of there b4 reinstalling O/S.Originally Posted by ndjamena
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Best time to invest in HDDs is always tomorrow.
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You may be right, I'm sure next year will be even better. Which will be about the time I need one.Originally Posted by KarMa
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00R45V3SW/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2DID...X1Z93YEF&psc=1 -
ZFS is a file system...much more robust than RAID...and RAID is not a real backup anyway. Make yourself a freenas or NAS4Free server and use ZFS mirroring.Originally Posted by mlmiller707
Looks to me like it might be easier to get a tennis match with old Larry than it would be to find one of these. Where do they sell them, and how much do they store? Why not a 30,50.100, or even 500tb. Why do I need to jump all the way to a peta? Not that I can afford one.Originally Posted by ron spencer
'Do I look absolutely divine and regal, and yet at the same time very pretty and rather accessible?' - Queenie
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I'm still not sure why? Are they destined to crash? Why not an 8tb ex hd, con/disconnect usb 3.0 when file(s) are needed?Originally Posted by ron spencer
ZFS is a file system...much more robust than RAID...and RAID is not a real backup anyway. Make yourself a freenas or NAS4Free server and use ZFS mirroring.Originally Posted by mlmiller707
Looks to me like it might be easier to get a tennis match with old Larry than it would be to find one of these. Where do they sell them, and how much do they store? Why not a 30,50.100, or even 500tb. Why do I need to jump all the way to a peta? Not that I can afford one.Originally Posted by ron spencer
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Is Joe Abrams retarded? There is no logical principle to this at all. Maybe under a laboratory,but no way that adding a bunch of 0's in price could make a world of listening difference.
http://www.equusaudio.com/products.html?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&...category_id=67 -
You actually need TWO external drives, not one. One to store the files(data), and one to backup all of the data. Unless you don't care if you lose all that data. And the larger the drive, the more data you will lose. ALL HDD's fail, and external drives fail at a higher rate than internal (desktop) drives.
Google is your Friend -
Well by your rationale I would then need an endless amount of HDD's. So the first one is going to fail and the backup is going to live forever. I care, but this would seem like a pointless market, if according to you they all fail?Originally Posted by Krispy Kritter
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Which is why RAID, if you lose one drive, you replace it and the data is rebuild. With RAID 6 you can lose 2 drives and it can still be rebuilt.
One of my drives is dead right now and needs replacing, so I'm essentially running RAID 5 at the moment.
With RAID 10, as long as you don't lose two discs containing the same data, you can lose half the discs and still rebuild. -
What do you mean by lose and rebuild. You mean I can use the drive again, after it just crashed. Why do they crash, and I have never had an internal hd crash. What's the difference in that and a jump drive crashing.Originally Posted by ndjamena
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I mean if a hard drive crashes, the controller can use the parity information in the other drives to rebuild the information from it onto another disc.
When I have money, I need to go buy another hard drive, replace the dead one in my PC with it, wait for it to rebuild and then the RAID will be back to square one, ready for the next drive to crash. -
This sounds like some Joe Abrams sh.. to me. I had a Dell Desktop for over 10 years. It sat in the hot sun for 3 months in my car. I hitched across the country with it in my backpack. It finally got lost, which was the only failure. I have had a sh.. laptop for over 10 years. Never once had a hd fail. So now it goes external and it is going to fail eventually. Not saying you don't know what you are talking about, there are a dozen and one hits for it on Google. Just saying, if and when it fails. i will pay someone to get the data off, it does not reset to 000000000 does it?Originally Posted by ndjamena
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Do you think they're going to open it up, take the data discs out and extract the information from them using some special device every computer repair shop happens to have laying around?
Have you ever actually TRIED to get data off of a dead HDD?
Why don't you google THAT before jumping to conclusions. -
To answer your sa question yes I do, and did work for intelligent people who know how to do anything.Originally Posted by ndjamena
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=how%20to%...a%20dead%20hdd
Do you know how to use Google?
Let's dispense with the I-told-you-sos. If you find yourself facing a data recovery job, then you have probably forgotten the cardinal rule of computing: All hard drives eventually fail. And you didn't back up your data, did you? We've been there—hey, everybody has to learn this lesson once. Now what?
Panic!
Just kidding. Actually, the first thing to do is determine if it really is a hard-drive failure you're confronting, and not one of the countless other equipment glitches that can cause a boot failure. If you have access to another computer, remove the failed hard drive from your sick PC, and hook it up as a secondary drive to the alternate computer. The easiest way to do this is through a USB universal drive adapter—it costs about $30 and is a good device to have around for all sorts of hard-drive diagnostics.
On a Mac, the process is a bit simpler. Use a FireWire cable to hook your nonworking Mac to a working Mac, then, "target boot" the nonworking machine by holding down the T key as you power it on. With either method, it's possible that your failed hard drive will show up on your healthy computer and reveal its files, in which case your hard drive is probably fine, but your operating system needs to be reinstalled. (Don't forget to offload your files before you do that.)
AN ATTEMPT TO SALVAGE YOUR DATA CAN COST ANYWHERE FROM A HUNDRED DOLLARS TO SEVERAL THOUSAND
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If your files don't show up on the secondary computer, then you are at one of those pivotal moments in life when you find out how much your hard work and treasured memories are really worth to you. Depending on how your drive is damaged, an attempt to salvage your data can cost anywhere from a hundred dollars to several thousand. What's more, the process can take days—and there is no guarantee that the money and time you invest will produce any results whatsoever.
Now that we've gone through the depressing task of properly setting your expectations, here's the good news: Very often, the data on failed drives is recoverable. In fact, it's surprising how resilient that information can be—just ask any corporate embezzler who thought he had deleted all the evidence from his PC, only to have it show up later in court. The comparison is apt, since the very same computer forensic tools that uncover digital misdeeds are the ones that can find your treasured family photos.
There are two ways that drives crash: Logical failure and mechanical failure. In a logical failure, the drive's components are physically undamaged, but because of either accidental formatting or a corrupt file system, the drive is not able to find and navigate its own data. However, unless it has been overwritten, that data still exists on your drive.
THERE ARE TWO WAYS THAT DRIVES CRASH: LOGICAL FAILURE AND MECHANICAL FAILURE
A mechanical failure means that your drive has broken parts that are preventing it from working—busted drives often make a telltale clicking sound as they futilely attempt to access their files. If you hear that, your data may still be there, but you're not getting it back without calling in the experts (see "Worst-Case Scenario," next page). And those experts make good money. Data recovery services from Kroll Ontrack, Seagate's i365 and Iomega charge between $500 and $2500 to attempt to salvage data from either logical or mechanical disasters, depending on the severity of the situation. But if you are just dealing with a logical failure, you can get your files back on your own for far less.
We recently attempted a data recovery from the crashed drive of a Popular Mechanics colleague whose 120 GB MacBook drive had spontaneously given up the ghost. We removed the drive from her laptop, then used our USB drive adapter to hook it up to a desktop computer for diagnosis. We didn't hear any sounds that indicated a truly dead drive, so our first step was to download the free demo diagnostic tool at Prosoft Engineering to check what might be salvageable. Many companies offer demos that will scan your drive and give you a pretty good idea of what's recoverable before you lay down money to buy their software.
Once the assessment indicated we'd get good results, we used Prosoft's Data Rescue II software ($99), which is tailored for the Mac OS and Mac-formatted drives. There are far more options for PC owners, including Prosoft's Data Rescue PC ($99), as well as Ontrack EasyRecovery DataRecovery ($199) and RecoverMyFiles ($60) from GetData.
Most of these products work in a similar way. Install the software, select the defective drive as your source and choose a destination folder to receive the data. (Make sure your recovery drive has enough space for the contents of your failed drive.) Then be prepared to wait, and wait. A full scan and recovery of our 120 GB drive took four days, and a larger drive could take longer.
RECOVERING A HARD DRIVE IS A BIT LIKE GETTING BACK A STOLEN CAR
Recovering a hard drive is a bit like getting back a stolen car—you'll be happy to have your files back, but the results could be messy. No data recovery program will return your files to you in exactly the condition you originally kept them. These programs are designed to essentially do a data dump from your problem drive to a new drive. Files will be organized by type (JPEG images will be in one folder, Word documents in some other folder, MPEG movies in another) and your songs and photos will be mixed with random sound and image files from your computer's system folder.
Additionally, the names of all your files will have been changed to various alphanumeric sequences, such as IMG1039.jpg or MOV2010.mov. So be prepared to settle in for a long weekend of sifting through and renaming your files. Oh, and while you're at it, now's a good time to buy that backup drive.
Drive Disasters: Worst-Case Scenario
What if your hard drive is suffering from something a bit worse than your everyday hard-drive crash? How much damage can your data take before it's gone forever? We wanted to find out what could be salvaged from a computer that had been through a natural disaster, so we simulated a really bad one. We decided upon an earthquake/flood doomsday scenario. First, we took two laptop drives, loaded them with test movie and music files, then beat the heck out of them until we heard the signature clicking of mechanical hard-drive failure. Then we submerged one of the drives in custom- made storm-surge floodwaters (salt water, construction debris, oil) and let it soak for four days.
We sent both hard drives to Kroll Ontrack Data Recovery, which sells data-rescue services to both corporate clients and consumers. Ontrack's Jeff Pederson analyzed the drives in the company's clean room and found that the read/write heads in our dry drive were bent from our abuse and that we had scratched the platters. Our flooded drive was wet, but the platters were undamaged. Pederson replaced the heads and performed a recovery.
The results? Pederson was able to save 99 percent of the data from the dry drive and 100 percent from the flooded drive. Had we been paying customers, the service would have cost us $1200 each.Last edited by mlmiller707; 29th Nov 2015 at 20:13.
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The vast majority of that article is about corrupted data, not a dead drive.
The two "damaged" drives, were damaged by physical abuse, which is not normal in most PCs, they had to send them to specialist and all they had to do was replace the heads. For that it cost $1200 each.
I know data can be recovered, forensics can recover data that has been properly wiped from a HDD and written over. But your assumption that relying on that is better than relying on RAID or a proper backup doesn't stand up in the real world. -
The real world does not involve having thousands of dollars to spend if something happens. You mean the real world where I have never had a hd crash. So Raid is invincible? Big deal anyway. Lose movies that are more for collecting than watching. Lose movies that I can dl again. How much did you invest in such unimportant entertainment? There are degrees of caring. Your degree of caring is almost as ascenine as Joe's.Originally Posted by ndjamena
That's also one article out of the thousand and one of emLast edited by mlmiller707; 29th Nov 2015 at 22:51.
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