Re-Encoding XviD for playback on Stand alone player.

[LoveHateMachine]

So it seems certain files are jumpy when playing on my stand alone dvd player that is DivX certified. (Samsung P-191)

I've done some reading around for a month now and have been converting all my AVIs to DivX using the DivX converter (Whatever the latest version is). I have been having syncing issues with with and and i think it is only dues to the lack of processing power in my computer. So i looked for different methods.

I came across Avidemux 2.5 to re-encode XviD files to better play on stand alone using a method that was posted on this site, HERE.

I tried re-encoding the same file two different ways using Avidemux. Once using "Video Size (Two Pass)" method and the other using "Constant Quantiser (Single Pass)".

The single pass method worked perfectly, no jumping but i could notice a difference in quality (plus the file size was significantly smaller. The Two pass however, was jumpy in all the same spots as the original file. I used Gspot to pull up all the info. Here is a screen shot - http://my.jetscreenshot.com/912/20091115-ozrk-241kb.jpg


My question is, what is causing the jumping. I've read about [s:8e0e9d2192]packed sound or whatever it was called and used a program that was recommended[/s:8e0e9d2192] packed bitstreams and used MPEG4 Modifier to unpack it but that did not solve the issue either.

Sorry for the long post but, it's bugging the crap out of me. I thought a stand alone DivX player would save me the headaches but so far i have been proven wrong. Any help is appreciated. Thank you in advance.

[louv68]

All you may need to do is remove the packed bitstream with MPEG4 Modifier. This does the trick on my Philips DVP-5982

[LoveHateMachine]

All you may need to do is remove the packed bitstream with MPEG4 Modifier. This does the trick on my Philips DVP-5982

Like i said above, although i was not clear on it as i could not remember the proper terminology, i have tried this.

[disturbed1]

The single pass method worked perfectly, no jumping but i could notice a difference in quality (plus the file size was significantly smaller. The Two pass however, was jumpy in all the same spots as the original file. I used Gspot to pull up all the info. Here is a screen shot - http://my.jetscreenshot.com/912/20091115-ozrk-241kb.jpg

The single pass is using quite a lower bitrate than the two pass - almost 1/2 the bitrate in fact. My Philips player has always had so-so results playing avi files from CD's. It will play avi files from DVD perfectly. If you have not already ruled out the media, give it shot. Burn a couple of files to a DVD and see if this will improve playback.

[LoveHateMachine]

The single pass method worked perfectly, no jumping but i could notice a difference in quality (plus the file size was significantly smaller. The Two pass however, was jumpy in all the same spots as the original file. I used Gspot to pull up all the info. Here is a screen shot - http://my.jetscreenshot.com/912/20091115-ozrk-241kb.jpg

The single pass is using quite a lower bitrate than the two pass - almost 1/2 the bitrate in fact. My Philips player has always had so-so results playing avi files from CD's. It will play avi files from DVD perfectly. If you have not already ruled out the media, give it shot. Burn a couple of files to a DVD and see if this will improve playback.

All i use is DVDs. In my test i burned both files on one DVD. Without converting them over to a DVD format of course. If i did that, it would defeat the purpose of a DivX player, yeah?

What about the method in which i burn? I just use Windows Explorer to burn them to a DVD, should i use something else like Nero?

[jagabo]

Your videos appear to be free of all the features that can cause problems on set-top Divx/DVD players. The only thing I see left is bitrate spikes higher than your player can handle. Did the jerks happen during very "busy" shots? (Shots with lots of motion, noise, strobe lights, smoke, flickering fire, etc.) You can try using Bitrate Viewer to see how high the spikes get and if they roughly coincide with the playback problems.

With your constant quanizer encode try lowering the quantizer. The default is 4. 3 is usually a good compromise between quailty and file size. 2 will give very high quality but give even bigger (and hence higher bitrate) files.

[LoveHateMachine]

Your videos appear to be free of all the features that can cause problems on set-top Divx/DVD players. The only thing I see left is bitrate spikes higher than your player can handle. Did the jerks happen during very "busy" shots? (Shots with lots of motion, noise, strobe lights, smoke, flickering fire, etc.) You can try using Bitrate Viewer to see how high the spikes get and if they roughly coincide with the playback problems.

With your constant quanizer encode try lowering the quantizer. The default is 4. 3 is usually a good compromise between quailty and file size. 2 will give very high quality but give even bigger (and hence higher bitrate) files.

Yes, it only seems to happen with very busy shots.

On the Two pass option the Quantiser is grey out and does not allow me to change the option



When i select the Quantiser tab here is what i see.




What would i need to change and where?

[jagabo]

You can only change the quantizer if you are in single pass constant quantizer mode. The lower you set the quantizer the higher the quality you'll get. And the larger the file. But I think you're going to see the same thing -- once the quality gets up bitrate spikes are going to cause jerky playback.

Some Xvid encoders have profile settings that limit the max bitrate during 2-pass encodes. That is probably what you want to do. But I don't think AviDemux's encoder supports the feature.

It looks like you can set the max bitrate in 2-pass VBR mode in AviDemux. Look on the Two-Pass tab, down at the bottom. The "Peak Bitrate Over 1 second" setting. Now you need to figure out what the bitrate limit for your player is.

I would also try enabling B frames (1 or 2) as that will lower the bitrate. Most modern Divx/DVD players support at least 1 b-frame. Try both packed and unpacked bitstream.

[disturbed1]

What about the method in which i burn? I just use Windows Explorer to burn them to a DVD, should i use something else like Nero?

You can try it, wouldn't hurt. Look out for the flames against Nero though It's that product people love to hate.
Might be the quality of the media. If you use this same media for DVD-VIDEO, and it has no issues with your player, I'd toss that out as well.

<edit> damn you jagbo, no reason to repeat exactly what you just posted :P </edit>

I personally would not recommend Avidemux to encode for hardware players. It does employ any profiles for Xvid nor divx. Using profiles (dxnhtntsc/dxnhtpal) for xvid will allow the encoder to ignore non conforming specs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DivX#Profiles
http://www.gromkov.com/faq/conversion/xvid_options.html

[LoveHateMachine]

You can only change the quantizer if you are in single pass constant quantizer mode.

Ok, i see, so a lower number the better the quality?

Would you recommend two or three? Should i run Bitrate viewer and post it here before you answer that?

[jagabo]

Note, I added a bit more to my last post.

Try a quantizer of 3. 2 will almost certainly have problems on your player. You can also use non-integer values like 2.5 or 3.3.

[LoveHateMachine]

Note, I added a bit more to my last post.

Try a quantizer of 3. 2 will almost certainly have problems on your player. You can also use non-integer values like 2.5 or 3.3.

Yeah seen that after my post. I'll give it a shot and let you know.

@ Disturbed1 it is most definitely not any issue with the media itself. I've had no issues with it using it in any other way other than this.


Thank you guys for the help.

[disturbed1]

Note, I added a bit more to my last post.

Try a quantizer of 3. 2 will almost certainly have problems on your player. You can also use non-integer values like 2.5 or 3.3.

Yeah seen that after my post. I'll give it a shot and let you know.

@ Disturbed1 it is most definitely not any issue with the media itself. I've had no issues with it using it in any other way other than this.


Thank you guys for the help.

Since that's out of the question, I'm going to drop out, and let jagbo finish. We're both heading in the same direction and there's no reason for 2 people to post the same advise.

[LoveHateMachine]

Ok, you were right. 3 had no issues, 2 had the same issues as before. I don't see a way to use non-integer values with Avidemux.

The only other option i can see is to set the target bitrate to a desired amount however, looking through my manual for my DVD player (Samsung P-191) the only thing it shows for bitrate is for DivX5 "Maximum bitrate: 4Mbps". The only thing it mentions for XviD is that and i quote "Bitrate may fluctuate: Device may skip decoding the high bitrate portions and begin decoding again when bitrate returns to normal.


I guess the best thing to do is use Bitrate Viewer like you mentioned above and see what levels it is skipping on and try to find an ideal bitrate to set it at? Tell me if there is a better way.

I want the best quality i can have but, don't mind sacrificing just a little bit.

Thanks again.

[jagabo]

Ok, you were right. 3 had no issues, 2 had the same issues as before. I don't see a way to use non-integer values with Avidemux.

You're right. Other encoders let you set non integer values. Internally the encoders will alternate between the two surrounding integers. For example, if you select 3.5 the encoder will alternate between 3 and 4 for an average of 3.5.

The only other option i can see is to set the target bitrate to a desired amount however, looking through my manual for my DVD player (Samsung P-191) the only thing it shows for bitrate is for DivX5 "Maximum bitrate: 4Mbps". The only thing it mentions for XviD is that and i quote "Bitrate may fluctuate: Device may skip decoding the high bitrate portions and begin decoding again when bitrate returns to normal.

Try a 2-pass target bitrate encoding with the bitrate capped at 4 Mb/s. That 4 Mb/s might include audio too though. Also try running several short test encodes at different constant bitrates and see where the player starts having problems.

[LoveHateMachine]

Ok, you were right. 3 had no issues, 2 had the same issues as before. I don't see a way to use non-integer values with Avidemux.

You're right. Other encoders let you set non integer values. Internally the encoders will alternate between the two surrounding integers. For example, if you select 3.5 the encoder will alternate between 3 and 4 for an average of 3.5.

The only other option i can see is to set the target bitrate to a desired amount however, looking through my manual for my DVD player (Samsung P-191) the only thing it shows for bitrate is for DivX5 "Maximum bitrate: 4Mbps". The only thing it mentions for XviD is that and i quote "Bitrate may fluctuate: Device may skip decoding the high bitrate portions and begin decoding again when bitrate returns to normal.

Try a 2-pass target bitrate encoding with the bitrate capped at 4 Mb/s. That 4 Mb/s might include audio too though. Also try running several short test encodes at different constant bitrates and see where the player starts having problems.

Using Bitrate Viewer i see the jumping starts when the bitrate exceeds 5000Kbps. Using AviDemux how would i set it to not exceed 5000Kbps? Even another program would be fine.

I also just went back and looked at the file that was converted using the integer value of 3 and noticed in Bitrate Viewer that there was one point in the video it spiked up to 9000 kbps. So i popped it into the DVD player to check and sure enough it was jumpy at that same point.

Average bitrate of the file in integer 3 by the way is 631. So i would like to get a re-encode with a higher average but not exceed 5000Kbps. I just don't know how to do this.

<Edit> Ok, so i thought i figured out how to set the maximum bitrate using the method found HERE but it did not do anything different. In fact it had the same exact spike as the file i did last night with a single pass using integer 2.

[jagabo]

I haven't really used the Xvid max bitrate setting in AviDemux. But I think you need to more than just the Maximum VBV Bitrate. Try using numbers from the VFW Xvid encoder. If you have it installed it's in Start -> All Programs -> Xvid -> Configure Encoder. Then press the More button on the Prove @ Level line, go to the Levels tab and select a Profile @ Level. Your player probably corresponds to the Home profile, or maybe the Advanced Simple @ L4 profile. Use the numbers from there. Note the Max Bitrate in Xvide is in kbps, so multiply by 1000 for AviDemux. In a few test encodes I did the peak bitrates reported by Bitrate Viewer were a bit higher than the peak selected in AviDemux so you might have to use lower values.



An AviDemux encode with an average bitrate of 1500 kbps and a cap of 3000 kbps:
VBV Buffer Size: 1500000 bits
Maximum VBV Bitrate: 3000000 bit/s
Peak Bitrate Over 1 Second: 3000000 bit/s



The same video at the same average bitrate with no bitrate cap (all three set to 0):

[LoveHateMachine]

I appreciate it, i'll give this a try tomorrow and update you.

Thanks again!

[jdfields]

Had to figure out why this otherwise nice player refused to play some Xvid (MPeg4) coded content within an AVI container.
Manuals and internet didn't have any real clues .
Discovered (almost by accident) that the player refuses to play at all if the AUDIO is NOT MP3 coded!
SAMSUNG P-191 (also my other player Magnavox MWD7006).

I used avidemux3 and recoded the audio from AAC to MP3 and SHAZZAMM! Worked perfectly.
Works for both SAMUNG P-191 and Magnavox MWD7006.
Have a good day!

[manono]

Discovered (almost by accident) that the player refuses to play at all if the AUDIO is NOT MP3 coded!

I doubt that. I'm pretty sure it'll play XviD AVIs with AC3 audio. Or WAV audio. Or maybe even MP2 audio. It just doesn't like AAC audio and that's no surprise at all.

But thanks for digging up a three year old thread just to spread some incorrect information.