want to copy protect VIDEO DISKS

[lse123]

I frequently burn video DVD/DVD DL/BD, and want to copy protect VIDEO DISKS ... any suggestion?

[hech54]

Impossible.

[Baldrick]

Add a HUGE watermark/logo.

[El Heggunte]

Try PRESSING the discs, instead of BURNING them.

[lse123]

what you mean PRESSING?

I can not inset a script secure so cannot copied?

[hech54]

I can not inset a script secure so cannot copied?

Impossible.

[Chopmeister]

If Hollywood, with the tens/hundreds of millions of dollars to spend on R&D, and access to pressing plants and industry experts can't to this (and they can't), then a guy sitting at home with a burner sure as heck can't. At best, all even Hollywood can do is inconvenience casual users - not anyone who seriously wants to go round them. As Hech54 says, it's impossible.

[hech54]

Anyone want to bet that the OP comes back just to say that he found a way to do it....and not give any kind of explanation how?

That's usually what happens in threads like these.

[Des]

I have a way to do it:
I burn the disks, and then I don't give them out to anyone to watch or use.
Never been pirated

--dES

[dragonkeeper]

After spending billions of dollars Hollywood has found the means to prevent users from making duplicates of disk that play correctly. Catch is you have to play the disk on a player that supports the protection format. can be by passed by either playing the disk on a computer with proper software or by ripping moving to hard drive and playing form there.
So after spending billions Hollywood has only manage to partially protect their disk what do you thing the chances are for a home user to succeed?

[Cornucopia]

I find threads like these alternately amusing and annoying. Today, it's amusing.

The problems with protection systems is in the cross-purposes. You want, on the one hand, to be keeping (some) people away from access to your system, but on the other hand, you want to distribute as much as you can! So any compromise is going to include a security compromise. Particularly if it involves interaction with a computer.

SACD is about the only disc type that hasn't been "cracked" in its original form. Why? Because Sony won't allow for SACD drives to be made AT ALL for computers. One can only play SACDs with settop drives (closely supervised by Sony) and one can only create SACDs at a pressing plant (also closely supervised by Sony). No computer interaction means no good way to analyze the raw data.

The downside of that approach is that, contrary to what was Sony's original intention, SACD is a small, shrinking niche market - bound to never get major expansion because of limited access to production (only the big players can even legally, technologically or financially afford to do it) and limited auxilliary utility.

Now, SACD can be "captured" in analog and redigitized (even in high-def & surround), so even for this technology, there is no "perfect secret".

Too bad Hollywood (and others) just don't get this fact: Information wants to be free!

Scott

[Noahtuck]

LOL!!!

When i saw the title my first thought was, who dug up an old thread ??

OY VEY!!!

LMAO!!

[El Heggunte]

IMHO Baldrick should place a locked 1-post "global sticky thread" on EVERY forum, and its title would be,

"You cannot copy-protect your CDs, DVDs and BDs, period"

[Chopmeister]

After spending billions of dollars Hollywood has found the means to prevent users from making duplicates of disk that play correctly. Catch is you have to play the disk on a player that supports the protection format. can be by passed by either playing the disk on a computer with proper software or by ripping moving to hard drive and playing form there.
So after spending billions Hollywood has only manage to partially protect their disk what do you thing the chances are for a home user to succeed?

Not even that would work. While it might prevent ripping the actual disk, until there were enough of them that the new system became worth breaking. Unless they shipped this hypothetical player with a paired screen using its own connectors and customised DRM protocol to communicate with it, protecting just the disk would be pointless as the content would be recordable in real time over either the analog or HDMI output (regardless of whether HDCP, Macrovision of CGMS/A is used - they are all compromisable).

The only other option, which Hollywood tries from time to time, is to produce content so bad that no one *wants* to pirate it

[jman98]

After spending billions of dollars Hollywood has found the means to prevent users from making duplicates of disk that play correctly. Catch is you have to play the disk on a player that supports the protection format. can be by passed by either playing the disk on a computer with proper software or by ripping moving to hard drive and playing form there.
So after spending billions Hollywood has only manage to partially protect their disk what do you thing the chances are for a home user to succeed?

Not even that would work. While it might prevent ripping the actual disk, until there were enough of them that the new system became worth breaking. Unless they shipped this hypothetical player with a paired screen using its own connectors and customised DRM protocol to communicate with it, protecting just the disk would be pointless as the content would be recordable in real time over either the analog or HDMI output (regardless of whether HDCP, Macrovision of CGMS/A is used - they are all compromisable).

The only other option, which Hollywood tries from time to time, is to produce content so bad that no one *wants* to pirate it

dragonkeeper was talking about Cinavia. If you are using a player (software or hardware) that supports it, it won't play your rips correctly. Nobody has yet found a way to remove it, although the mechanism by which it appears to work is fairly well known. It really exists and it's not hypothetical.

[Des]

dragonkeeper was talking about Cinavia. If you are using a player (software or hardware) that supports it, it won't play your rips correctly. Nobody has yet found a way to remove it, although the mechanism by which it appears to work is fairly well known. It really exists and it's not hypothetical.

Question about the Cinavia protection: If you rip one of those disks will it play correctly on a non-cinavia enabled player?

--dES

[MOVIEGEEK]

Question about the Cinavia protection: If you rip one of those disks will it play correctly on a non-cinavia enabled player?

--dES

Yes.

Cinavia is a audio watermark so if you play a copy on a Cinavia enabled player then you will get no audio, it's similar to the watermark that's on some DVD-Audio discs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinavia

[Des]

Thanks for that reply Moviegeek.
So, the protection is really only successful if they can get a wide range of manufacturers to subscribe to it. But for ripping a disk and converting it to MKV or DIVX then it's kind of a non-issue.

--dES

[jman98]

Thanks for that reply Moviegeek.
So, the protection is really only successful if they can get a wide range of manufacturers to subscribe to it. But for ripping a disk and converting it to MKV or DIVX then it's kind of a non-issue.

Actually it's not a non-issue at all. Conversion may retain the audio watermark and if you have a player that supports Cinavia and the firmware checks ALL files for the watermark, it will not play the file. Technically speaking with Cinavia playback usually starts on protected files and then stops after a few minutes, but to keep things simple I just said that it won't play the file.

[Des]

Thanks Jman98, didn't realize that since the watermark is embedded in the audio track that it could survive conversions.

--dES

[dragonkeeper]

Thanks Jman98, didn't realize that since the watermark is embedded in the audio track that it could survive conversions.

--dES

To my understanding the watermark is inaudible to human hearing and is mixed in with the audio sound track. The only way i think it could possible be beat is to locate the water mark within the audio track, be able to match its properties frequency, amplitude, e.t.c. and then apply and inverse sound possibly neutralizing the water mark. This is just a theory and I'm probably way ff the mark as this not my area of expertise.

[TBoneit]

For me Hollywood has come up with a unbeatable anti copy protection system! They haven't put out any movies in some years that arr worth watching even once as far as I'm concerned. I'm including that Record opening blockbuster (Their term) from the last weekend that I won't be bothering to watch. I subscribe to none of the Premiums channels. I do watch some of the older movies off of The Dishnetwork platinum pack however. I do watch some TV shows, Once. Once is enough I have watched this one several times for exaample, Good Music in it. Two Girls and a Sailor (1944) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0037408/

[ron spencer]

It is easy enough for a DVD to make VM commands and uops to have a person enter a password in order to play the video. That is easy.

Most people would be too stupid to figure out how to "fix" it.

Not worth the effort in any case....smoke a joint instead.

[TubeBar]

I frequently burn video DVD/DVD DL/BD, and want to copy protect VIDEO DISKS ... any suggestion?

Try http://C-Prot.com.

[Nelson37]

In terms of commercial distribution to a large customer base, NO, it can't be done (yet).

HOWEVER - in terms of small-scale sales to a limited customer base, yes, IMO it can be done.

Some time back I detailed a method based on real-world experience which would defeat one-click programs and probably 95% of the users on this board. For a garage-based local-client customer base, IMO it would stop virtually all of them from copying it without detection.

It's not perfect but would have some beneficial effect.

[TubeBar]

Read the PDF and test results: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5ukviXvXw9wQnZJWnd5NlVrbDA/edit

The advanced version nothing rips it at all. Since it's dynamic based (on concept of trap doors used in PC Gaming protection) no one certainly on this forum is going to rip it and it's dynamic (not static).

Of course nothing is 100% but it stops most users and that's what you want to do.

[jman98]

Read the PDF and test results: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5ukviXvXw9wQnZJWnd5NlVrbDA/edit

The advanced version nothing rips it at all. Since it's dynamic based (on concept of trap doors used in PC Gaming protection) no one certainly on this forum is going to rip it and it's dynamic (not static).

If this is truly as impossible to rip as you seem to think, would you care to explain why not even one Hollywood studio is using it?

Both us and Doom9 have some really smart members with a very deep understanding of DVD internals. I bet both websites have people who can successfully rip such discs. Again, given how some Hollywood studios are completely and utterly obsessed with stopping ripping (Sony comes to mind as the most obsessed studio) I find it difficult to believe that this wouldn't be in use if it was truly as good as you claim.

[TubeBar]

Read the PDF and test results: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5ukviXvXw9wQnZJWnd5NlVrbDA/edit

The advanced version nothing rips it at all. Since it's dynamic based (on concept of trap doors used in PC Gaming protection) no one certainly on this forum is going to rip it and it's dynamic (not static).

If this is truly as impossible to rip as you seem to think, would you care to explain why not even one Hollywood studio is using it?

Both us and Doom9 have some really smart members with a very deep understanding of DVD internals. I bet both websites have people who can successfully rip such discs. Again, given how some Hollywood studios are completely and utterly obsessed with stopping ripping (Sony comes to mind as the most obsessed studio) I find it difficult to believe that this wouldn't be in use if it was truly as good as you claim.

Think it's so easy to sell to Hollywood? They use their own "exclusives" like Rovi and Sony. RipGuard and ARccOS are by far not the BEST but yet that's what they use. For example ProtectDisc (FluxDVD) is far better then both but yet why doesn't Disney use them?

Not so easy to sell to them. Just because "Hollywood" doesn't use the best, they use their own.

[jman98]

Given the extreme paranoia and the fact that Sony has proven willing to spend any cost in using 3rd party anti-copy solutions (ARCCOS, Cinavia) it remains difficult for me to believe that a better technology exist that Hollywood is unwilling to pay for. We will just have to disagree here.

There is a cost involved in using extreme anti-copy programs. Some years ago Disney invented their own version of bad sector copy protection (something similar to ARCCOS) but they have so far been unwilling to pay for 3rd party solutions. If I remember correctly I think Paramount has recently started using Cinavia but in the past they were unwilling to pay for ARCCOS and similar programs. Other smaller studios that I don't pay attention to have been willing to pay for Cinavia.

FluxDVD has supposed been cracked for years. I can't find any evidence that any of the really good commercial rippers can't handle it. Disney doesn't use it because of cost and possibly because the really good commercial rippers can handle it. I cannot conclusively disprove your points, but it's not logical or likely (in my opinion) to conclude that better anti-copy protection programs exist but no studio is willing to pay for them when we've already got evidence that some will pay for this. One of the problems may be that some of the anti-copy programs actually seem to violate DVD standards and some studios may have decided that compatibility problems and unhappy customers aren't worth the problems those programs can create.

[TubeBar]

Cinavia is not a third party, once again it is the "exclusive" club and part of ACSS owned by Verance (not some small company). Sony uses Sony DAC, and Rovi has always been in the "exclusive club" since their APS was adopted into both DVD and BD formats.

Playability is certainly an issues, C-Prot claims 97% and even admit WinDVD and PowerDVD won't play it, so Disney is not going to touch that. 100% protection is certainly possible BUT 100% playability is another story too.

I know that when it comes to selling to RIAA or MPAA it's far from easy or cheap. You're talking $10k on a patent, then $25k on third party testing for playability....not a lot of smaller companies can do this.

Then there is the issue of contacting Disney (or a non Sony company) and selling them your technology, you can't just give a call and set up a meeting...doesn't work like that. It's really part of that "exclusive club" it's not going to happen. Not to mention that they wind up stealing processes used by smaller companies anyway, given time.

Also not so sure how big DVD protection is anymore, more digital and BD of course.