How to avoid loss of quality when editing/converting

[Warren93]

Hello VideoHelp forum,

It's likely that someone has already asked something like this question but a quick search of the forum didn't come up with a definite answer. I am trying to do some very simple editing on some mpeg files I captured from VHS tapes; after the editing I plan to burn the videos to DVD. But in order to do the editing in Windows Live Movie Maker, I have to save the video as a WMV
file.

So my question is, how much quality am I going to lose by converting mpeg to wmv for editing and then back to mpeg when it gets put on DVD? The original video quality is pretty bad, so I'd like to avoid any further loss. I don't think Movie Maker has any options for changing the bitrate when saving the file or anything, so maybe I need different software. If this is the case, what free, user-friendly editing software would you recommend?

[hech54]

Hello VideoHelp forum,

It's likely that someone has already asked something like this question but a quick search of the forum didn't come up with a definite answer. I am trying to do some very simple editing on some mpeg files I captured from VHS tapes; after the editing I plan to burn the videos to DVD. But in order to do the editing in Windows Live Movie Maker, I have to save the video as a WMV
file.

STOP using Windows Movie Maker.....it's crap.

So my question is, how much quality am I going to lose by converting mpeg to wmv for editing and then back to mpeg when it gets put on DVD?

INCREDIBLE amounts of quality will be lost. Go to Plan B

If this is the case, what free, user-friendly editing software would you recommend?

If you are truly dong "simple edits", then there is TONS of freeware that can cut MPEG2 files. my personal favorite is AviDemux and only cut on key frames. Save as:
COPY
COPY
MPEG-PS
(settings on the left)

Done.

[Warren93]

Thanks for the warning about movie maker. I guess I'll have to try the freeware then.

[hech54]

Hint:
The >> and << buttons are Key Frames on AviDemux. You need to cut ONLY on key frames in order to keep the original quality of the MPEG2.

[Cornucopia]

Or better yet, recapture your VHS footage using a lossless (or nearly lossless) codec, edit with a decent, full-featured editor (maintaining lossless) and only at the VERY END convert to DVD-compatible MPEG2, giving you exactly what you want with only 1 generation of (acceptable) loss.

BTW, Windows Movie Maker has always been able to export to DV-AVI as well. Hopefully the "Live" version still has that feature.

Scott

[Warren93]

In answer to the above post, it appears that the Live version of movie maker only publishes in the WMV format. I've already captured a bunch of the video files as MPEGs and I would like to avoid hunting all over the Internet for the perfect codec if possible.

@hech54
A couple hopefully quick questions about this AviDemux software: there appears to be an "MPEG video" option to save the file as well as the MPEG-PS (A+V) option that you mentioned. What is the difference? Also, when an MPEG is opened, the program asks whether I want to index it. What does that mean exactly, and should I do that?

[sanlyn]

A couple hopefully quick questions about this AviDemux software: there appears to be an "MPEG video" option to save the file as well as the MPEG-PS (A+V) option that you mentioned. What is the difference? Also, when an MPEG is opened, the program asks whether I want to index it. What does that mean exactly, and should I do that?

(A+V) = separate video and audio files.
index=makes a quick index file for faster navigation thru the video.

[Warren93]

A couple hopefully quick questions about this AviDemux software: there appears to be an "MPEG video" option to save the file as well as the MPEG-PS (A+V) option that you mentioned. What is the difference? Also, when an MPEG is opened, the program asks whether I want to index it. What does that mean exactly, and should I do that?

(A+V) = separate video and audio files.
index=makes a quick index file for faster navigation thru the video.

So is separate audio and video generally preferable?

[T_Jet]

So is separate audio and video generally preferable?

Depends on what you are doing. If you want to process the audio separately then yes. Otherwise no.

For example you can sometimes get harsh audio transitions between clips. By separating the audio you can use a program such as Audacity to taper the volume at the start and end. Same thing if your clips have different volume levels and you wish to normalise them.

[Abas-Avara]

Next to Avidemux you can try mpeg2cut too, its a tool which can edit mpeg2 without re-encoding. Its for basic editing (cut and paste)

[Warren93]

Hello again, thank you all very much for the help.

It seems now I'm having an issue just burning to DVD. I'm using DVD Styler to create a menu and burn, but when I put the finished disk in my DVD player, it gives me a "playback prohibited by area limitations" error or something like that. The first time I used DVD styler, it worked just fine and the disk played. I did the same things this time, but my home DVD player seems to think it has a region code other than the one I'm in (USA). I set everything to NTSC and not the program's default PAL but when I open the disk's files in IfoEdit some things still inexplicably say PAL (despite the fact that the original video file I used was NTSC). The disk plays fine on two laptops that I tried (one of which appears to be set to region 1). The only thing I've done differently this time as opposed to the time I got DVD styler to work is that this time I used different editing software (Avidemux), but I can't see how the editing software would change the region code.

I tried to use InfoEdit to change the files so that they weren't PAL, then burn another disk, but then the DVD player kept insisting that the disk was dirty and still wouldn't play it, albeit for a different reason this time.

So if anyone could shed some light on this, that would be cool.

Edit: I just looked at the new DVD's region code with DVDInfo and it listed regions 1-8 so it appears that either my DVD player or DVDInfo is lying to me...

[manono]

Your DVD is all-region, so that's not a concern. I suspect, in spite of your best efforts, that you somehow managed to create a PAL DVD. Open a VOB from the video and then one from the menu in GSpot or MediaInfo and check if they're PAL (720x576 and 25fps) or NTSC (720x480 and 29.97fps).

[Warren93]

I checked with Gspot, which does not seem to specifically say if its NTSC or PAL. But it did say that it was 29.97 fps. MediaInfo said NTSC (version 2) for every VOB file that I could find on the disc.

On another note, I checked the dvd player on my laptop that I had tested the disc on and its actually not set to any particular region, though based on what you (above poster) just said, I guess that shouldn't matter. I would have assumed this was all just a bug with DVD Styler if it weren't for the fact that it worked the first time I burned a DVD.

If it helps, the home DVD player that I'm trying to get this to work on is a Sony DVP-NS300 (I think). It has been finicky and unreliable for as long as I can remember.

[manono]

And they were also 720x480, right?

I've heard of players not liking all-region DVDs, but have never run across anyone that's happened to. And yes, Sony's are said to be about the strictest of all the brand names. Can you maybe test it out on a friend's DVD player?

As for the 'dirty disc' message, I'd suspect a bad burn or bad media for that one. You're burning with ImgBurn, aren't you? Never ever use anything else. And what brand are your discs?

[Warren93]

Yes it was 720x480. I tried it on a Sungale portable dvd player, but I assume that one was region free because it's portable. I had been using DVD Styler's built in burning function and then , when that wasn't doing the trick, I tried just using Windows' built in burning function. I have tried burning onto Memorex LightScribe DVD+R discs and Sony DVD+R. I will try out this software you suggested and see if it helps.

[Warren93]

I used ImgBurn and it seems to have finally produced a disc that my player will read. Thanks for the recommendation.