Bvp4 or SignVideo PA100?

[sirbyron]

I have been reading up on a lot of posts of the BVP4 vs the SignVideo PA-100 and if I have been reading correctly, I think most are saying the Elite BVP4 would be a little better suited to what I need. I have posted three links to some youtube videos, which I understand aren't the best quality anyways, but I just hope its enough to "get the picture" no pun intended!

They are some old marching band tapes that need some color correction and anything else you might recommend. I now have a Panasonic AG1980 that I can run the SP tapes through which I didn't have when I transferred these. These were transferred with a cheap Emerson into an Avid DVD maker usb cable into my computer. Very cheap but hopefully you can see they are in bad need of something that I can maybe improve on.

Maybe Gshelly61 or Lordsmurf can chime in??

Thanks a bunch for the help! I REALLY appreciate it. -Doug in NC

Here are the links:
http://youtu.be/AM5gwsb2tjI
http://youtu.be/YbTt8giw9ag
http://youtu.be/eOdXhdycYu8 (worst of them all .. shot at night .. tape bad at beginning)

[robjv1]

Yeah, I'd concur with your findings and go with the BVP-4. Both will make major improvements, but the BVP-4 has a wider range of adjustments and these are washed out enough and far enough off colorwise (especially the last one) that I think it'll make it worth it. Not that you wouldn't be happy with the PA-100 -- it's a stellar unit as well and would improve things quite a bit. You might consider capturing these with a capture card and using ColorMill in VirtualDub (among other options) to fine tune it a bit more.

I've heard recently that SignVideo is discontinuing all of their color correctors, so if you choose to go that route, you may need to look for one used at this point.

[JVRaines]

I use the PA-100 and it wouldn't have any problem making the level and chroma adjustments you need. But your biggest problem is chroma noise and I think the best way to tackle it is in the digital domain after you transfer.

[sirbyron]

Thanks both for your suggestions. I'm kind of new to all this and just trying to study all the info on this and other sites. So glad there is help out here like this!! I would just send it to a professional transfer service but I just have my doubts as to how much time they would really want to spend with it. I am a learner and love this type of stuff so I think my best bet is to dive in and enjoy the ride .... although a little expensive! lol!

robjv1 .... thanks, I hear the bvp-4 does have more "fine tuning" but in a different way than the PA-100 , one using pixel expansion (which I believe was the bvp-4) versus some other means for the other one. I was trying to find that post but can't seem to. I believe Lordsmurf was explaining the differences.

JVRaines ..... yeah, I need to get a better/ faster computer for video. I do a lot of audio stuff but that doesn't take no where near the gigs and processing video does! lol! Thats why I am just doing the hardware thing for now. Once I get a "decent" computer setup, would it be ok to take what I have already transferred to DVD and fly it in to the computer from the DVD? I realize that is mpeg2 by that point but is that going to degrade my editing capabilities a lot ... especially for footage like this?

Not that I could afford one or anything, but how much better would the real high end TBC's and Proc Amp s work compared to the bvp's and signvideo stuff?

Thanks again for the help folks, really appreciate here.

[sanlyn]

Thanks both for your suggestions. I'm kind of new to all this and just trying to study all the info on this and other sites. So glad there is help out here like this!! I would just send it to a professional transfer service but I just have my doubts as to how much time they would really want to spend with it. I am a learner and love this type of stuff so I think my best bet is to dive in and enjoy the ride .... although a little expensive! lol!

The word "professional" loosely applies to anyone with a VCR who gets paid to digitally transfer analog sources. If you're talking about a real cleanup and truly professional work, be prepared to spend far more than you've spent on your equipment so far.

Considering the way your posts were captured and then mounted on UTube's horrible players, I'm surprised at the amount of detail and certainty in the replies above. If your source is anywhere near as bad as they look in the samples, you'll need more than a proc amp, an AG1980, and a DVD recorder to get the results you expect. But a good proc amp will certainly help. I'd go for the PA-100. It's capable of fairly strong corrections (I've corrected worse than your samples with it), but it has the bonus of a luma meter that will help prevent you from making the mistakes that most people make with the BVP4. The luma meter itself is worth the price of the PA-100. In any case, no proc amp is going to work the magic you appear to expect. Fixing the colors in those samples goes a lot deeper than fixing "color balance".

Once I get a "decent" computer setup, would it be ok to take what I have already transferred to DVD and fly it in to the computer from the DVD? I realize that is mpeg2 by that point but is that going to degrade my editing capabilities a lot ... especially for footage like this?

Those tapes would be difficult to fix, as-is. After faded, damaged, and discolored tapes are transferred directly to lossy DVD compression, they will be much more difficult and sometimes impossible to repair.

Not that I could afford one or anything, but how much better would the real high end TBC's and Proc Amp s work compared to the bvp's and signvideo stuff?

You're right, you couldn't afford it. But neither can most members here . You would need a line-level tbc much more than a full-frame type. High-end for tbc's with line-level capability start at around $2500 and climb quickly. A proc amp of the sophistication you'd need for push-button color work on those videos would cost twice that much, but they're deisigned to work with associated equipment that costs even more. Meanwhile, the PA-100 and BVP4 both are pro-quality equipment, but compared to the heavy duty stuff they're relatively basic.

If you already have an AG-1980, why would you need another tbc?

[sirbyron]

Considering the way your posts were captured and then mounted on UTube's horrible players, I'm surprised at the amount of detail and certainty in the replies above. If your source is anywhere near as bad as they look in the samples, you'll need more than a proc amp, an AG1980, and a DVD recorder to get the results you expect. But a good proc amp will certainly help. I'd go for the PA-100. It's capable of fairly strong corrections (I've corrected worse than your samples with it), but it has the bonus of a luma meter that will help prevent you from making the mistakes that most people make with the BVP4. The luma meter itself is worth the price of the PA-100. In any case, no proc amp is going to work the magic you appear to expect. Fixing the colors in those samples goes a lot deeper than fixing "color balance".

Thanks Sanlyn .... yeah samples are pretty close to true ..... although these were "before" I got the AG1980. I have yet to run them through that because it is being repaired at the moment. Those Utube vids came from an Emerson unit. I just want to get them looking as good as I can with what I can afford. Not really looking for miracles but as long as I can get a little improvement I'll be happy.

Those tapes would be difficult to fix, as-is. After faded, damaged, and discolored tapes are transferred directly to lossy DVD compression, they will be much more difficult and sometimes impossible to repair.

Actually I was referring to the "new" transfer to dvd I will be doing with the AG1980 and proc amp .... if that would really help much.

You're right, you couldn't afford it. But neither can most members here .

One thing I admire is honesty! lol!

If you already have an AG-1980, why would you need another tbc?

I thought I was reading other posts saying a standalone unit is better. I will try the AG1980 first though. Might not need anything but that one.

Thanks Sanlyn .... appreciate the input.

[NJRoadfan]

Given the equipment and no TBCs in the chain, I'm surprised they came out as good as they did. That last tape had some rotten sync to it with all the tape damage. I've actually had worse sources, namely 2nd generation VHS tapes recorded with ancient tube cameras and horrible indoor lighting. I asked if the original tapes were available and as usual the answer was "no". JVC's Digipure managed to save that entire tape! One of the few cases a good VCR proved to be a miracle worker.