(NTSC) VCR + (PAL) VHS | Any Solution For This?

[mctoom]

Hi.

I recently bought a JVC HR-S7600U VCR for capturing purposes. It was very expensive and the shipment to my country was expensive too.

When I got the VCR, I tried to play some of my VHS tapes, but the screen was very noisy and the colors were black & white. The sound was unclear too. It was simply terrible.

My initial guess was that the heads are not clean, but I knew later that the reason is that my VHS tapes are all recroded in PAL signal, while my VCR is NTSC, and they don't work in harmony.

The reason I bought that good VCR is as an investment, it turned out to be a big loss. It's impossible to even sell it here in this region because of this issue. Not possible to even sell it abroad because of our international high shipment costs.

I feel bad because of that. Although I read a lot of articles here about capturing, I didn't find any caution about this issue. I really hope someone would help me to find a solution other than buying another VCR.

[DB83]

Did you just plug this in to the mains power supply. I am surprised if it would work at all.

There is AFAIK no simple solution. You either get a multi-standard VCR or a PAL VCR AND a voltage adapter for your country.

Oh. I am sure there would be topics here about trying to play PAL tapes in NTSC equipment. There is absolutely no way they would work. The more common issue is NTSC tapes in PAL equipment. Plenty of solutions for that.

[mctoom]

Thanks DB83 for clearing this out.

It's strange though the fact that there are solutions for vise versa (NTSC tapes in PAL equipment.) How come is that?

[DB83]

I read an article once but can not quote it right now. But IIRC it is all down to those clever Japanese who designed the VCRs in the first place.

[hech54]

Thanks DB83 for clearing this out.

It's strange though the fact that there are solutions for vise versa (NTSC tapes in PAL equipment.) How come is that?

It gets worse....
NTSC tapes in PAL equipment play easily.....but it's almost impossible to capture or record what comes out of it.

[misermidas]

The European seem to be more interested in American stuff than the American in European ,
I think that's the reason why European VCR can play American tapes and not the opposite.

Pal and NTSC VCR are mechanically the same but not electronically.

France,eastern Europe and some other country used SECAM and not PAL for colour TV,
In eastern Europe a specific format name MESECAM was used for recording SECAM signal.
I do not know for Saudi Arabia ,so you should check that before buying a new VCR.
"Recent" VCR sold in France could play both PAL and SECAM tapes.

For those who want to play NTSC tapes in a European deck : It will often play these in 4.43 NTSC (also named PAL-N) .
For that reason colour information may be impossible to get if your digitalizing card does not support PAL-N.

[edDV]

For those who want to play NTSC tapes in a European deck : It will often play these in 4.43 NTSC (also named PAL-N) .
For that reason colour information may be impossible to get if your digitalizing card does not support PAL-N.

European VCR decks play 3.58 MHz subcarrier 525/60 NTSC tapes with subcarrier converted to 4.43 MHz PAL but this format is called PAL60 not PAL-N.

PAL-N is 625/50 (lines/field rate) with PAL subcarrier at 3.58 MHz. This is used in Argentina and Uraguay.
Standard PAL is 625/50 with PAL subcarrier at 4.43 MHz.
Brazil's PAL-M is 525/60 with PAL subcarrier at 3.58 MHz.

[misermidas]

edDV is right! I said an oddity about PAL-N !
There are various mixtures of PAL an NTSC in video standards and this does not make things simple .

[DB83]

Ok. But none of this helps the OP (if there is indeed any help)

The question was "Why can PAL VCRS play NTSC tapes ?". There are tons of topics on here that discuss the various modes 625/50, 525/60 etc. So we know, even without practical demonstration, that most VCRs can do this.

So the question is why. And I seem to recall an article many years ago that it was IIRC down to the Japanese tv system which, although is NTSC is not quite the same as the US.

But the OPs main question has not been addressed. Is there any solution for him ?

[jman98]

Ok. But none of this helps the OP (if there is indeed any help)

The question was "Why can PAL VCRS play NTSC tapes ?". There are tons of topics on here that discuss the various modes 625/50, 525/60 etc. So we know, even without practical demonstration, that most VCRs can do this.

So the question is why. And I seem to recall an article many years ago that it was IIRC down to the Japanese tv system which, although is NTSC is not quite the same as the US.

But the OPs main question has not been addressed. Is there any solution for him ?

No, the original question is actually the opposite. I'd state it as "Why can NTSC VCRs not play PAL tapes?".

Basically it's easy to fit NTSC into PAL and SECAM as both were actually designed to support this. But fitting PAL into NTSC is complicated. And on top of it, there has always been a feeling by the manufacturer that nobody in the USA wants to see "those weird foreign films" so there's never been any consumer demand for PAL compatibility in anything. The electronics needed years ago to convert PAL into NTSC were pretty expensive. I remember a US based company in the old VCR days where they did make converting VCRs and the prices started somewhere in the thousands of dollars range. That price made sure that only millionaires, businesses and hardcore videophiles owned such devices at the time in NTSC land.

[edDV]

Ok. But none of this helps the OP (if there is indeed any help)

The question was "Why can PAL VCRS play NTSC tapes ?". There are tons of topics on here that discuss the various modes 625/50, 525/60 etc. So we know, even without practical demonstration, that most VCRs can do this.

So the question is why. And I seem to recall an article many years ago that it was IIRC down to the Japanese tv system which, although is NTSC is not quite the same as the US.

But the OPs main question has not been addressed. Is there any solution for him ?

The OP purchased an NTSC VCR presumably a North American model. These play only 525/60 with NTSC subcarrier at 3.58MHz and 7.5 IRE luma setup. They generally don't play any other standard. Japanese models are similar except setup is at zero IRE.

While there exist special multi-standard VCRs, the model identified is not one of them.

"Why can PAL VCRS play NTSC tapes ?"

In the 80s, this feature was added to PAL TV sets and PAL VCRs due to consumer demand. There were more titles available in NTSC format, than in PAL in the early years. To achieve NTSC playback the TV sets were designed to sync to 525/60 H and V syncs, but they did not have an NTSC decoder. The PAL VCR included circuitry to hetrodyne the 629KHz "color under" signal to 4.43MHz instead of normal 3.58MHz NTSC. Then PAL (Phase Alternate Line) was applied to make NTSC appear as PAL at 4.43MHz. This was known as pseudo-PAL or PAL60 because the H and V luma syncs were still 525/60. This is a good reference for NTSC VCR standards http://catalogs.infocommiq.com/AVCAT/images/documents/pdfs/TT189%20-%204611.pdf

Normal NTSC VCRs were never modified to play PAL tapes except for the special models mentioned. The reasons were low consumer interest in playing PAL tapes plus the desire of VCR manufacturers to block Europeans from sourcing VCRs in the USA or Canada to avoid the high European VAT tax.

The issue remaining with PAL60 (pseudo-PAL) was few computer capture devices or DVD recorders were designed to deal with mixed 525/60 luma with 4.43 subcarrier PAL. This meant most PAL VCR users could not dub from an NTSC tape. They could only watch the tape on a compatible PAL TV.