why don't they make the new 3d camcorders record at 24p they do 60p

[Onceler2]

the one from panasonic does 60p and can't do 24p, why do they do this? I would want to be able to put my footage on a bluray and be able to watch it with my PS3. Or any new camcorders for that matter. I think that I got lucky in getting one that does true 24p without having to be converted for BR but that was a long time ago and I want to get a good 3d cam.

[yoda313]

Does it have to do with the double image issue? I mean you have to two of each image. I don't know if that can be done smoothly at 24p - would that mean 12p for each side whereas with 60p you get 30p with each side?

Or do I not have a clue about what I'm talking about?

[Onceler2]

the 3d bluray spec that I read said 24p.
cams usually don't have a setting for 24p anymore I think that I got the only cam (panasonic)that ever did true 24p @1920x1080 recording.

[jagabo]

Because shooting 24p requires good camera handling technique?

[Cornucopia]

Like jagabo said, has a LOT to do with camera technique.

Also, note that so far, all "2-Lens,Single-Body" 3D cameras are either consumer, or prosumer cameras. Real Pros have heretofore used a Twinned-PAIR of standard/2D/monoscopic cameras (whether SbS or BeamSplitter or my "Bi-Clops" format ). There are many of these that do 24p.

So your choice is to: WAIT (for newer 24p models) or BUY a PAIR (and rig, tripod, etc) or not worry about 24p (downconvert). **

Scott

BTW,yoda313, that's NOT how cams are normally set for 3D recording.

** You could also get a single RED camera that can do 48p, and build your own 48FPS version of a NuView-type device, but I don't think you'd be doing yourself the best service with that mode.

[yoda313]

BTW,yoda313, that's NOT how cams are normally set for 3D recording

Ok just thought I"d take a stab at it.

[Cornucopia]

BTW, the new JVC GY-HMZ1U DOES do 24p in 3D. Considering its form factor and features, I'd probably still consider it "Prosumer" level, but it is sold by JVC Pro division and marketed as a pro camera. You decide...

Scott

Edit: And not just JVC, but later this summer/fall, more from Sony & Panny...http://review.hdcamcordersguide.com/general/new-stereo-3d-shooting-options-emerge-at-n...-studio-daily/
So you won't have to wait too long. Still "prosumer", but if you intend to shoot 24p (with all of its temperamental flicker possibilities), you should be expecting to invest more than the average consumer.

[Onceler2]

Thanks for the info but I have a question about the JVC GY-HMZ1U it says that it records full HD in MVC not AVCHD so would this be in BR spec? Or would I have to convert?

[yoda313]

full HD in MVC not AVCHD so would this be in BR spec? Or would I have to convert?

If I'm not mistaken mvc is for 3d shooting so it would be in 3d. So as far as I know it would need to be converted.

However I'm not sure how 3d discs with 2d versions on it are stored - are they duplicated with ssif files AND regular plain old m2ts fair?

[Onceler2]

whatever cam I buy it must do well in dim light

[Onceler2]

full HD in MVC not AVCHD so would this be in BR spec? Or would I have to convert?

If I'm not mistaken mvc is for 3d shooting so it would be in 3d. So as far as I know it would need to be converted. <What do you mean it would need to be converted, to what?>

However I'm not sure how 3d discs with 2d versions on it are stored - are they duplicated with ssif files AND regular plain old m2ts fair?

I am looking for something that needs no conversion to be put on a 3d blu-ray .

[edDV]

full HD in MVC not AVCHD so would this be in BR spec? Or would I have to convert?

If I'm not mistaken mvc is for 3d shooting so it would be in 3d. So as far as I know it would need to be converted. <What do you mean it would need to be converted, to what?>

However I'm not sure how 3d discs with 2d versions on it are stored - are they duplicated with ssif files AND regular plain old m2ts fair?

I am looking for something that needs no conversion to be put on a 3d blu-ray .

Blu-Ray is happy with 60i, 60p*, 50i, 50p*, 30p, 25p, 24p, or 23.976p but not all players accept all of those.

In the USA, typical HD frame rates are 1080 60i, 720 60p, 720 30p (AVCHD), 1080 24p and 720 24p.

It doesn't have to be 24p.


* 60p/50p for 1280x720 only

[yoda313]

Are you asking if it records directly to 3d mode? I was thinking you were asking if it records a 2d version as well as a 3d version. My guess is if you record in 3d mode at that level you should not have to convert anything for 3d bluray as long as it meets the specs. That is what I don't know. You'd have to wait for cornucopia to respond on that level.

[Cornucopia]

Thanks for the info but I have a question about the JVC GY-HMZ1U it says that it records full HD in MVC not AVCHD so would this be in BR spec? Or would I have to convert?

Let's break this down:
1. Yes it records in MVC @ up to 34Mbps. Assuming this doesn't have any other additions or proprietary settings, it would be totally compatible with BD3D (uses MVC Base+Difference/Dependent @ up to 60Mbps, 40Mbps max for each stream).

Of course, it wouldn't be "COPIED" directly to BD anyway, it would be AUTHORED using the standard BD3D spec. The MVC would be packetized into the MTS/SSIF structure. This of course REQUIRES a BD3D authoring program. Currently, the LEAST EXPENSIVE app to use for this would be Vegas Pro 10.0d's direct BD3D authoring module.
Since it also directly supports Sony's use of MVC in Stereo3D cams, it most likely would also support JVC's implementation of MVC, so it's all good.

If I'm not mistaken mvc is for 3d shooting so it would be in 3d. So as far as I know it would need to be converted.

However I'm not sure how 3d discs with 2d versions on it are stored - are they duplicated with ssif files AND regular plain old m2ts fair?

2. MVC IS NOW for shooting (as well as other things). It does NOT need to be converted, if using the path I outlined above.

3D discs are almost always authored to be 2D-compatible. With a few possible exceptions - if the stereo3D version makes use of FLOATING WINDOWS, it will still play OK on 2D, but the adjustable cropped sides ("movable pillarboxing"?) could prove to be a distraction to a 2D viewing audience. Also, if the MVC is encoded in "non-compatible" mode (but so far, no producer has created any titles of this kind). Plus, there *could* be some difficulty with CERTAIN 3D subtitles, depending upon how they're authored.

Blu-Ray is happy with 60i, 60p*, 50i, 50p*, 30p, 25p, 24p, or 23.976p but not all players accept all of those.

For BD3D, the options are limited to 1080x24p, 720x50p or 720x59.94p.

Here's the most recent spec: http://www.blu-raydisc.com/assets/Downloadablefile/BD-ROM_Audio_Visual_Application_For...ions-18780.pdf

Don't know about the Low Light capabiltity of the cam, as it's only now becoming in production...

Otherwise, should be good to go, with a new copy of Vegas Pro (and a fast PC, 3D monitor and a BD burner).

Scott

[Onceler2]

I realize that it would have to be authored I just dont want any conversion to take place. Like my current setup I have a cam that shoots and records @ 1920x1080 @24fps during authoring there is no recompression.

[Cornucopia]

I'd test it out first to make absolutely sure, but on the face of it, it looks like it would be totally compatible and not need any recompression (using Sony Vegas Pro 10.0d).

Scott

[FrontierDK]

I'd test it out first to make absolutely sure, but on the face of it, it looks like it would be totally compatible and not need any recompression (using Sony Vegas Pro 10.0d).

Scott

So far, all my AVCHD editing has been anything but lossless. Also, the Vegas texts also mentions that smart rendering isn't supported in AVCHD

I have found a few splitters on the net which will split AVCHD files without any loss, but there's a big gap from splitting to nice transitions etc.