DV to MPG is wonky

[zoobie]

This one's got me stumped. The DV-AVI is smooth and clear. But when I convert it for DVD, no matter which encoder I use (MC, HC, Ulead, etc), it always comes out like this (5.4mb 6 second clip).

It looks like the fields have been swapped but the MPG is still BFF...

What do you think the prob is?

Thx

[aedipuss]

weird. when i play it in vlc i see this.


but a screenshot by vlc gives this. which is what i assume you're seeing. it appears the motion video isn't being rendered properly.

[jagabo]

Your DV AVI isn't smooth and clear. It is interlaced BFF and Windows is deinterlacing it for you on playback -- so it appear smooth and clear. The MPG file is interlaced BFF, just like the DV AVI source. If you burned that MPG file to a DVD it would play fine.

[aedipuss]

there's something more going on. the background around the motion video also moves, but there are no interlacing lines in it.

[poisondeathray]

because the background is progressive content , the moving foreground video is interlaced

[vhelp]

regarding the interlace phenomina-- if you look closely at the fields, the special effect filter plugin had de-interlaced and re-intalced it that section where it scrolls. look closely, the fields jump ahead too far. if this is an interlace footage--and i'm sure it is--that section of scene should have smother or fluid-like response, but it doesn't.



here's the technique to verify:
separate the clip in avisynth
then open the clip in virtualdub (or other simple tool)
observe the background how it bobs up and down (in the begining, to get idea of fluid)
then scrub through timeline quarter-way, when guitar player it just touching right egde of video

now, watch the bottom of the guitar: notice how it does not bob up and down ?
if you noticed in the begining when the guitar starting coming into view, it did bob up and down.
but also notice how the background scene still bobs up and down. that should tell you what the special effects plugin did.

regarding the artifact-- i have the opposite problem, VLC playes it smooth and no artifacts-perfect. but in kmplayer it jerks and displays a wierd bar near the center. this leads me to believe that these issues are related to each person's player's decoder or renderer. i would say its possible that vlc and kmplayer are using the *same* decoder or renderer version displaying the same artifact in our players in zoobie's aedipuss and mine.

i've tested in many decoders (players) from:

nero showtime4 v4.3.2.0
powerdvd 3.0
vlc v0.8.5
kmplayer 3.0.0.1439 --- problem playing, green bar (running top to bottom) and color artifacts and flickers
mplayer v1.0pre7-3.4.2
virtualdub v1.6.15
dgindex v1.5.2

i even tried remuxing it it, to a .ts, .mts, and .mpv but still gave me the same error in kmplayer only.

but, when i opened another player like powerdvd and vlc, then kmplayer played it properly. this was leading me to believe that it is a software renderer issue.

zoobie: can you re-encode that same clip, same way, except w/out the special effects ? then try playing it again ?
i'd be curious of the outcome. but i'm leaning towards it being the decoder/renderer.

in any case, with so many different variations in encoder features and proprietary writers its no wonder their are occasions where at least one player will not play the video properly.

[jagabo]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the MPG video. It is interlaced and bottom field first. If you aren't getting proper playback it's your player's fault. Simple Bob Doubler in VirtualDub:

[poisondeathray]

set vlc to "bob" and you should see similar to what WMP shows when playing the original DV-AVI

as jagabo pointed out , wmp will automatically double rate deinterlace DV-AVI (if you have default setup with MS codecs) . Most players will only single rate deinterlace, for example KMP will only single rate by default (so it displays as 30p instead of 60p)

the only thing "wrong" is the cheesy animation

[aedipuss]

but the big question is how will it look on a standalone burned to dvd? i'm guessing the "frame" will be fine but there will be interlace lines visible in the subject.

[poisondeathray]

It will look fine on a standalone . Broacasters often have mixed progressive & interlaced content. For example, the station TV logo or lower 1/3 graphic maybe progressive overlayed on 60i content . It's encoded and flagged as interlaced , and the player will see the signal as 60i

vhelp is correct too; the foreground video content has been single rate deinterlaced at some point in time - you can tell the motion of the hands in the guitar player when examining fields. So although the actual animation characteristics are 60i , the actual content of the foreground video is 30p. Another way of looking at this is if you download jagabo's bobbed video, and step through the frames, you will see the guitar player's hands are in the same position in consecutive frames (if it was 60i content bobbed to 60p, each frame would be a different uniqute moment in time, and the hand would be in different position)

[zoobie]

Yes...I see now. You guys are right.

I've been watching the clip on a tube TV via VLC and WMP and it blows. However, I just found the same clip on a burned DVD of mine and it plays fine on a stand-alone. I was worried since this novelty DVD is going to be displayed for the public this Summer. Only question now is why didn't I notice this 4 years ago when it was created.

Really appreciate the help...especially all the effort vhelp went through...unfortunately, this is all that's left of the project.

Thanks again to aedipus, jagabo, & poisondeathray