Please help me stop dropping frames!

[justin81]

Hello,

As the subject states, I am having issues with dropped frames. My video captures generally run about 2 hours but I often find that I will drop anywhere from 2-3 frames.

This generally happens during the last half hour or so of the capture. It does not happen every time.

One time while I was watching, it dropped frames in front of me. The mouse switched to the hour glass for a second, and when it returned, two frames were lost.

I have tried nearly all of the suggestions in the sticky to no avail, so I am posting this in a last ditch effort to solve this problem.

Here is my setup:

My computer is an Intel Pentium 4 3.80Ghz with 2 GB of RAM.

I am running Windows XP Pro versions 2002 Service Pack 3.

My video card is an ATI All in Wonder 9600. I'm running Multimedia Center version 8.8.

I'm capturing direct to MPEG-2.

I'm running all my VHS tapes through a DataVideo TBC 1000 via S Video cables. The system can capture flawlessly when fast forwarding or rewinding the tape, so I doubt the signal is the problem.

- I close everything in the system tray. I also disable antivirus and about 7 running processes that have nothing to do with the task of capturing or system operation (I can list those processes if need be).

- Wireless internet connection is disabled.

- I try to keep the room temperature around 70 degrees. I always have fans going.

- I have used this card on another computer (that is now dead beyond repair) and never lost a single frame.

- I space out my captures and try to do one a day after work. PC is off for nearly 24 hours before each go at capturing.

- ULTRA DMA is enabled.

- I defrag the hard drives weekly.

- I have a dedicated hard drive for capturing and do a "quick format" before each capture.

- I minimize the preview window to the smallest size.

If there is anything I'm not doing that could help, please let me know. Or, if additional information is needed on my computer or setup, please let me know too. I really want to solve this problem!!

Thanks!
Justin

[johns0]

Sounds like a program is still starting to do something,do a cap and see in the task manager what process is being used when the frames drop.

[edDV]

Hello,

I'm capturing direct to MPEG-2.

Don't do that. Buy a TB or so. Then encode.

Or, buy an i7.

[themaster1]

1) Close all programs: anti virus, defrag (diskeeper) etc..
2) Record to another drive than the os drive

[jagabo]

1) Close all programs: anti virus, defrag (diskeeper) etc..
2) Record to another drive than the os drive

Did you read his post? He's already doing that.

I agree with edDV -- try capturing YUY2 compressed with HuffYUV. Convert to MPEG2 later.

[themaster1]

I see, well you're officially doomed. What wrong doing have you done lately, try to think.

[jagabo]

In any case, 2 or 3 dropped frames in two hours of VHS recording is nothing to be worried about.

[hech54]

Am I reading this right?
2 to 3 frames dropped in a 2 hour capture?
That enormous first post - and then replies by others...for 2 to 3 frames dropped in a 2 hour capture?

[filmboss80]

Gotta agree with all these comments. You're capturing VHS uninterrupted for 2 hours--and doing an MPEG-2 encode on the fly as you go--yet all that was lost was 2 or 3 frames? Man, you don't have problems. In fact, it would be nice to know your secret with such a successful capture and realtime MPEG-2 encode.

[hech54]

In fact, it would be nice to know your secret with such a successful capture and realtime MPEG-2 encode.

I'm guessing that is his real intention anyway.

[PuzZLeR]

In fact, it would be nice to know your secret with such a successful capture and realtime MPEG-2 encode

It's not that hard - I now capture to MPEG-2 flawlessly, in real time, without any buffering, at the highest quality setting, with 0 frames dropped - each time - when before I used to drop a couple of dozen frames frames per hour with the same setup.

The secret? I changed my cooling system entirely - fan, heat sink, etc.

I expected an improvement in effectiveness. But I was surprised at just how much an improvement it actually made - astronomical.

[Bjs]

Seeings how it's not every time this occurs you may want to check out system scheduled tasks ... check the times they are set to start there process's and confirm there not responsible.

[justin81]

LOL, not sure what the "secret" is. On my old system (RIP) I could capture and encode MPEG2 on the fly for 4 hours or more and not lose a single frame. The tape could even reach the end of the recording and capture static and I still wouldn't lose frames. Guess it spoiled me.

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I will check into some of these suggestions. I just captured six videos this weekend with task manager open while I sat there and watched looking for conflicting tasks. Didn't drop a single frame, darn it, and I actually wanted it to.

[PuzZLeR]

If viewing your task manager and it reads like >90%, you're in trouble. Mine hovers around 20% (I do my captures on a 2-core.)

Before I changed my cooling system I would actually, really, have to be attentive every 1-1.5 hours, sometimes even while having to do a couple of quick wake-ups during an overnight session, to restart the capture process to avoid buffering and dropped frames. What a pain. I was thinking of going back to DV, but I really wanted MPEG-2 compression.

Now it can go well over 7 hours without a problem while I leave it overnight. No dropped frames reported by morning, even with the static captured afterwards.

I sleep soundly now.

[justin81]

So I've done some more capturing. It did drop one frame once while I was viewing and task manager was open. However, I didn't notice anything change on task manager during the moments that frame was lost.

My system resources are around 14-17% when I'm capturing, so I don't think the task is too taxing. It rarely peaks above this unless something else starts to run (Microsoft Windows processes I have no control over).

Puzzler - what would you recommend for cooling the system? I really feel like I've exhausted most of my options here.

Last resort would be upgrading to another version of MMC.

[PuzZLeR]

You can try this. Go to Start->Run and type msconfig in the box and hit enter. Go to the startup tab and disable everything for your next startup.

Restart your computer and agree to the changes. This should give you a fresh clean PC ready to capture without distractions that surface right from startup.

Also, disable any Internet connection and Anti-virus.

If you can get your hands as well on a neat proggie called "EndItAll", and run it before every capture session, it will also do supplemental benefit to shut down lots of background apps potentially disruptive to a capture session.

what would you recommend for cooling the system? I really feel like I've exhausted most of my options here.

Room temperature, A/C running, fans pointing at the tower, compressed air, etc did nothing, or very little, for me here.

Even during our winters here in Canada it was still troublesome.

Honestly, I can only recommend a new internal fan and heat sink if you're having problems - it was so worth it for only a few bucks, surprisingly cheap. And it's actually my first recommendation to you.

Check your fan first, you never know - it might be a fire hazard.

[Nelson37]

Those who are surprised at the real-time MPG capture must not be familiar with ATI cards.

How big is the capture drive, and how much free space? The hourglass tells you that either some other process is running, or the software is waiting on the hard drive. Sometimes this can happen on VHS when there is a tape error of some sort.

Is your processor overclocked? You don't need that much speed for the capture.

[edDV]

Those who are surprised at the real-time MPG capture must not be familiar with ATI cards.

The ATI All-In-Wonder cards use proprietary MCC software that access proprietary hardware assist from the card. The cards can also act as simple capture devices without hardware assist from other software like VirtualDub.

[Verify]

Let me apologise in advance, but I can't resist: "Please help me stop dropping frames!"

Perhaps using rubber gloves? On the other hand, as long as there are no pictures in the frames, just pick them up.

Sorry.

[justin81]

Puzzler - Just had a couple new fans put in about six months ago because the system ran loud and seemingly hot. The recommendation was made by a tech friend of mine. Maybe the fans aren't cooling the system enough.

Nelson37 - I'm capturing to a separate hard drive that is 120 gigs. I do a "quick format" before each capture. There is nothing on the drive, it is solely for capturing.

The VHS tapes I'm capturing from currently are 1st generation SP mode recordings and run through a TBC, so I feel as though the signal is clean.

I can't sit here and honestly say that I know for certain the system isn't overclocked. It was custom built, so I suppose that possibility, unfortunately, exists.

For what it's worth, I upgraded to MMC 9.2 last night after another failed capture. We'll see if that makes any difference. I was running version 8.8 previously.

As always, thanks for the suggestions!

[justin81]

I have ascertained that a process is starting that is interfering with the capture. I have watched it open and close in task manager while the system simultaneously drops frames. Unfortunately, I have been unable to identify this process as it is on and off the screen in the blink of an eye.

Is there some program I can use that creates a log of all system processes running at a given time so I can narrow this down?

Thanks,
Justin

[neomaine]

...
For what it's worth, I upgraded to MMC 9.2 last night after another failed capture. We'll see if that makes any difference. I was running version 8.8 previously.
...

It's been awhile since I've used my ATI cards (9600XTs) but remember a sweat spot at either 8.7 or 8.9 and that the 9.x drivers were problematic. Cobweb memory vision shows something about VideoSoap. Sorry, don't remember the specifics. LordSmurf would be a good one to ping.

Its also been awhile for WinXP. See if you can run perfmon.msc at the command line. If so Performance Monitor will allow you to log all kinds of metrics. Might even have a rewind feature. Again, been awhile...

[justin81]

I'm pretty sure the culprit was HP Scheduler for printer software updates. CPU usage would peak at 100 percent for several seconds while it was attempting to access the internet. I have since disabled the automatic updates. Keeping my fingers crossed.

[jagabo]

Nice catch.

[themaster1]

For your information i had untill today lots of dropped frames and i found out who the culprit is.Its name is scheduler.exe which is a SYSTEM processs from the software ACRONIS TRUE IMAGE. (...and it thought i had uninstalelld it, lol)
Anyway i have forced it to close manually (nothing crashed) and my frame grabber liked it better this way: 0 dropped frames on a brand new 5400 rpm WD hdd.

Next step for me will be to uninstall this crap 100%, sounds like a harsh task..

[jagabo]

You can use MSCONFIG to stop a lot of those background processes from starting when Windows boots.

[smartel]

i was capturing at 41k audio and i switch to 48k audio and got a lot less frames dropped ,
just because my audio card worked at 48 .. my 2 cents ...

[vhelp]

since not every sort of issue can be resolved on any-one persons computer rig, here's another tip that worked for me recently or months ago. i used this on one of my netbook computers, virtualdub and vhs captures:

you can also help reduce frame drops during capturing if you turn off the following:

bios: network functions
windows: wireless network and/or wifi, also firewall if you are just capturing may as well turn it off for the occasion.

-vhelp 5492

[ichverstehe]

I remember I had the same experience about dropping frames when capturing, try to check your settings from your deck, the one I used before have this options of capturing on drop frames, maybe try to look and find it and uncheck it. Else, maybe your settings are in pull-down (check if 24fps or 30fps settings/ NTSC/PAL) it will also affect your capturing process.

cheers