What does this .d2v parse tell me?

[fatcharlie]

I did a d2v parse from Virtual Dub, but I'm not exactly sure what it is telling me. My guess is that the video is purely interlaced, but I don't know. Here is a sample:

0 [I]: 0,0......................2
1 [B]: 1,1......................2
2 [P]: 2,2......................2
3 [B]: 3,3......................2
4 [B]: 4,4......................2
5 [P]: 5,5......................2
6 [B]: 6,6......................2
7 [B]: 7,7......................2
8 [P]: 8,8......................2
9 [B]: 9,9......................2
10 [B]: 10,10...................2
11 [P]: 11,11...................2
12 [B]: 12,12...................2
13 [B]: 13,13...................2
14 [P]: 14,14...................2
[GOP: open]
15 [B]: 15,15...................2
16 [B]: 16,16...................2
17 [I]: 17,17...................2
18 [B]: 18,18...................2
19 [B]: 19,19...................2
20 [P]: 20,20...................2
21 [B]: 21,21...................2
22 [B]: 22,22...................2
23 [P]: 23,23...................2
24 [B]: 24,24...................2
25 [B]: 25,25...................2
26 [P]: 26,26...................2
27 [B]: 27,27...................2
28 [B]: 28,28...................2
29 [P]: 29,29...................2

The entire parse is like this.

I read somewhere in the archives that if it was telecined video it would have a sequence of 3,3,3,2,2, at the end of the lines. That's why I guessed this was interlaced.

And if I guessed right does that mean all I have to do to fix the Interlace problem I see is to use FieldDeinterlace() from the Decomb plugin?

Thanks.

[poisondeathray]

The author goes into explaning the syntax here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=117455

It only tells you about arrangement of fields , frametype , GOP size, and TFF/RFF flags

It doesn't convey information about the actual content. For example you can have progressive content, encoded as interlaced - common example are 25p PAL DVD's. This would show the same pattern as above even though it's progressive (but the GOP length would probably be different). You have to use your eyes to determine the true nature of the content. If every field is a different moment in time, then it's interlaced. Here is a guide for one way of determining this:
http://neuron2.net/faq.html

So for your sample, the "2" means TFF, not pulled down

Note: fielddeinterlace() isn't really used anymore. There are many better choices if your content is actually interlaced

[manono]

As pdr says, fielddeinterlace is pretty obsolete now. In any event, you could have pure interlaced content (in which case a deinterlacer might be called for), or you could also have hard telecined content (in which case deinterlacing will ruin it, and you'll want to IVTC it). If you don't know how to tell the difference, post a small 10 second sample, one with movement.

And I'm assuming this is an NTSC DVD. If PAL, as pdr says it could actually be progressive content, just encoded as interlaced.

[fatcharlie]

Ok, I followed the FAQ instructions, and it seems I have sections that are progressive, with repeating fields like ...aabbcc.., but then I also have sections that don't repeat at all. So this is a progressive/interlaced mix, or hybrid?

edit: Looking at another section it appears there is a 3:2 section, too.

It may sound crazy that all three types are in this video, but they are.

[poisondeathray]

Yes that's hybrid . It's not "crazy" . Classic example are the Star Trek TNG DVD's, where there are 23.976 film sections interspersed with 29.97 sequences

[manono]

It may sound crazy that all three types are in this video, but they are.

It happens.

So this is a progressive/interlaced mix, or hybrid?

If you don't know how to tell the difference, post a small 10 second sample, one with movement.

Please post a small 10 second or so section of the source, one showing a couple, if not all three, of the types of video. It should also have steady movement so we can more easily tell what you have.

[fatcharlie]

My original is .vob. If I convert it to say avi with no filters, will it retain the different types?

[poisondeathray]

don't convert it

you can use dgindex, using the "[" and "]" to mark in/out sections and file=>save project & demux video to upload the .m2v

[fatcharlie]

Ok, I'll do that. I tried just cutting a section and saving it in VDub. A 14 second avi clip turned out to be 416MB!!

[fatcharlie]

When I do that. I only get an option for .d2v. That won't do you any good will it?

[poisondeathray]

"file=>save project and demux video" should give you .m2v also. Did you pick only save project (no demux video) ?

[fatcharlie]

Yeah, sorry, I just read the help file.

[fatcharlie]

Ok, this section should contain all three types.

[poisondeathray]

the majority of that clip is hard telecined

only the drawn in sequence - where the object is flying through the air - deviates from the cadence. But notice it's different than the background clip of the trees . You can see this when animation is added in haphazardly after the fact



it works ok if you use

AssumeTFF()
TFM()
TDecimate()

The sequence of the baton thingy flying through the air isn't handle perfectly, but it's decent. The other option is to make a vfr clip.

Maybe manono can suggest better treatment

[fatcharlie]

To be honest, that one scene is the only part that is hard telecined. If I had to guess I'd say that the types are divided up this way: ~50% progressive, ~45 pure interlaced, ~5% hard telecined. Ultimately it seems like TomsMoComp does the best job of getting rid of the Interlacing with the least amount of quality degradation. I am always open to better suggestions on how to deal with hybrid video which is mostly a progressive/interlaced mix.

I feel like I owe you some sort of fee or gift poisondeathray, you have helped me out a lot, lol.

[poisondeathray]

wait till manono chimes in, he has lots of experience with this sort of stuff

one option is to make a vfr video, but you would have to use a container that supports vfr, like mkv. It's not the easiest thing to do either

[fatcharlie]

Ok, thanks.

After I get the video cleaned up, I planned on using MeGUI to encode it. Is that a decent encoding tool, or are there better ones out there?

[manono]

After I get the video cleaned up, I planned on using MeGUI to encode it. Is that a decent encoding tool, or are there better ones out there?

What are you planning on making out of it? Going just by the sample, the IVTC will work decently. If almost half of it is pure interlace, maybe you should have included a sample with some of that.

There's no easy answer to how it should be handled when you have nearly equal parts hard telecine and interlace. Unless you're prepared to make a VFR encode.

[fatcharlie]

I want to encode to .mp4.

Basically what I'm trying to do is convert my DVD library of TV shows into single episode .mp4 files, so that my girlfriend and I can watch the episodes downstairs or upstairs without having to take DVDs with us or go through menus to watch the episodes. Also, we don't have a DVD player in our bedroom, but our TV is hard-wired to our network and has a USB port. Downstairs, the TV is wireless, which sucks for streaming converted videos, but also has a USB port.

I know it would be easier to just buy a DVD player for our bedroom, but doing it this way just seems more convenient for playback.

Here is a clip that contains both progressive and interlaced.

[manono]

Geez, interlaced 29.97fps and progressive (but already deinterlaced, by the looks of it) 29.97fps. Unless you're prepared to do a VFR encode, if there's as much of this stuff as you say, I don't see that you have any choice but to keep it at 29.97fps.

Both Decomb and TIVTC have modes that will deinterlace the 29.97fps stuff and add in blended frames to bring the 23.976fps stuff up to 29.97fps. It may or may not be better than just adding in the duplicate frames you'll get by deinterlacing the whole thing. You'll have to make the call.

[fatcharlie]

Which parts are 23.976fps? Any sort of reporting/analyzing I do reports back 29.97fps?

[fatcharlie]

Is there a thread someone can point me to on how toinstall everything on Windows 7 64 bit? I think I have something not installed correctly. I try to play an avs script with just the .d2v loaded and WMP doesn't really play it right, and VLC just sits there. The method I used to install everything is this:

1. Install 64-bit K-lite, set everything to ffdshow.
2. Install 32-bit K-lite, set everything to ffdshow.
3. Run the Windows 7 tweaker, make sure everything is set to ffdhsow, disable 32 and 64-bit media foundation.
4. Install 32-bit AviSynth, VDub, and DGIndex.

All of the stuff I was doing earlier this week was at work and everything works fine on my XP computer. At home I have 64 bit Windows 7.

Sorry for the sidetrack. I'm willing to uninstall everything and start from scratch if need be.

[poisondeathray]

what do you mean "doesn't really play it right?" is there an error message ? did you re-index the file and create new .avs script with all files in their new directories ? you can't "re-use" stuff like scripts from the XP computer

I think manono was referring to other sections that are 23.976, not the lastest clip. For example if you deinterlaced clip1, there will be dupes remaining. But if that's only 5% then it might be acceptable

If you do decide to deinterlace the whole thing, there are lot better deinterlacers than tomsmocomp if quality is your primary concern (e.g. QTGMC). The trade off is speed - the higher quality deinterlacers are cpu intensive and slow

[manono]

Which parts are 23.976fps? Any sort of reporting/analyzing I do reports back 29.97fps?

Yes, by definition all NTSC DVDs output interlaced 29.97fps. But the parts that go 3-progressive/2-interlaced and 4-unique/1-duplicate in every 5-frame cycle can be returned to their original 23.976fps. These are seen in your original sample.

[fatcharlie]

Ok, I haven't yet come across QTGMC.

Well with WMP, some of the scenes, the video doesn't advance, other scenes it plays really fast, I can't advance particular sections. To install the K-lite codec I followed a guide at adubvideo called "how to set up a proper decoding chain in Windows 7" and "how to setup a proper playback chain in windows 7". Not sure if those are accurate though. Maybe it would be best if I uninstall, then reinstall everything again. I'd feel a lot better.

Also, I'm not transferring anything from pc to pc. Everything I use on my home PC was generated on my home PC.

[poisondeathray]

well if you're playing the .avs file with mpeg2source, you're not decoding through directshow, so none of that decoding chain article applies

[fatcharlie]

ohhh. ok, I did not know that. Am I decoding it through DGDecode.dll?

[poisondeathray]

yes ; if you play a video directly in mpc or any directshow media player (e.g. bsplayer) , but not through mpeg2source , then you are using directshow splitter, filters, decoders - then that guide applies

[fatcharlie]

Ok, it plays fine in MPC, but WMP11 it doesn't, so I'll just stick with MPC.

I guess from here I'll mess with QTGMC, even though it looks like a lot of plugins to install, and a steep learning curve. I never knew that converting video could be so complicated. I always thought you just rip and convert.

[poisondeathray]

I guess from here I'll mess with QTGMC, even though it looks like a lot of plugins to install, and a steep learning curve. I never knew that converting video could be so complicated. I always thought you just rip and convert.

Yes, there's a bit of hassle gathering plugins, dlls etc..., and the processing is slower. But if you're a stickler for quality, the difference is noticable and definitely worth it. Sometimes it's not worth it if you just want a quick & dirty conversion. There are dozens of options to choose for and within QTGMC there are dozens of presets and settings to customize for example speed vs. quality

Here are 2 encodes, Both encoded using xvid q=3, one using the tomsmocomp settings used in your other thread, the other was

AssumeTFF()
QTGMC(preset="slow", border=true, sharpness=0.5)
SelectEven()


You can see the "shimmering" artifacts left by tomsmocomp (for example in the shirt), and details blurred from the vertical filter .

If you want to take a closer look, you can examine frame by frame alternating each video back & forth, you will see every frame is more clear with fewer deinterlacing artifacts by using QTGMC

a=AVISource("2 qtgmc even.avi").subtitle("qtgmc")
b=AVISource("2 tomsmocomp.avi").subtitle("tomsmocomp")
interleave(a,b)