DIVX on TV

[wee haggis]

Are there no standalone players already on the market that can play AVi-DIVX files?
I'm thinking that if the technology is available within common computers ,can't that same technology be used in DVD players?
Is a Scan Convertor the only option if you don't have video out?
Who makes them??.How much??

[vhelp]

I'm not expert in these things, but this is how I feel, and will
word it this way. . .

dude, in short, those people of the dvd player creations would laugh
your ta death! why?

cause it's a stoolen (cracked, modified w/out permission or something
like that) codec!!

Lets say you created your MPEG format and its legally THE standard
in video bla,bla, bla.
NOW, someone takes it and figures out how it works and then proceed
to (so called) enhance it to work better or more effeciant. people
get their hands on it and use this "hacked" codec w/ their encodes.
Now, people (yourself) want to (or wish) there were DVD players that
support it???????????????? You're crazy if you think that dvd makers
are gonna support that "hacked" codec in their new line of dvd machines
(at least at this time - things do change)
And, as for you, the creator of this standard MPEG format, you'd be
sooooooo PIST, you'd do just about anything to make (stop) sure that
the dvd makers DO NOT make ANY support of these "hacked" codecs!!
Starting to see the picture?
Hacked, in some cases mean "stolen" or stolen techknowlegy.

It amazes me whenever I see this kind of question! Every time!!
Don't you realize that this is a "hacked" codec?? and that being such,
automatically means it will NOT be supported in ANY way with dvd makers??

tanks.
-vhelp

[wee haggis]

Thanks for the response....
I can do without the sarcasm...thankyou very much....
If your theory is true,then why is it that most of todays DVD players play VCD's (compliant or not).....??Are VCD's not something that you and I can use/manipulate and ultimately play on a DVD player??/
Ok smart arse!!...answer?
Oh...and by the way...whos says that all AVI's are hacked other similar??
A Scan converter can be bought for $90 does the same thing...perfectly legal.
Where do you get your high almighty theories from??

[decibel]

dude, in short, those people of the dvd player creations would laugh
your ta death! why?

cause it's a stoolen (cracked, modified w/out permission or something
like that) codec!!

This is not true!! DivX4 is a 100% legal codec based on MPEG4, and has nothing to do with the hacked DivX3.11 apart from that it's backward compatible.

No hardware players yet though, but it looks like we'll the first this year. Sigma Designs (creator of the Hollywood cards) has also made a hardware decoder card that supports MPEG-4 that will be released soon.

Check out this link:

http://www.sigmadesigns.com/products/xcard_intro.htm


- decibel

[magelucid]

"DivX Networks" should have at least asked for pro bono help from a high school finance&marketing class on the name. Now not only are they carrying the failed payperplay DVD technology rep, they are directly related to illegally modified microsoft technology. They may have totally rewritten the current codec's legally but their rep isn't going to do them any favors. With DivX being the most commonly used codec for movie pirating I'm sure the MPAA and the DVD Licencing Committee will wreak havoc on anyone trying to make a DivX compatable standalone dvd player. I was really suprised to see that card have hardware divx decoding. It's a niche product though as I'm sure the people that have a free computer and the knowhow to hook to their tv is extremely small. We could see a compatable dvd player despite the industry's best wishes like has been done with mp3 technology but I'm not holding my breath.

wee hagis and vhelp might actually try reading the site before asking obvious questions and flaming incorrect answers.

[wee haggis]

As far as asking questions is concerned....thats what this forum is all about...right?
As for incorrect information...
What exactly did I say that was incorrect???

[ghghgh14702]

there is a divx driver you can burn onto the begining of your vcds and the vcd players will play divx for that disc, so really any vcd player is a divx player. so now lotr will fit on one disc!!

[vhelp]

I still stand by whatever nonsense I posted earlier.

In any case, it looks like or sounds like DIVx is getting closer to DVD players reach after all

I'll have to look at the link
(and maybe correct myself, but not
hold my breath, he, he... )
And, I'll check out (via search eng) that "divx driver"


I just don't too much time to research further. I'm DV'ing the new CREED music video - just playing around with DV. Looks good though. ohh, its animated. Sucks!

later!!

-vhelp

[ekinvalentin]

there is a divx driver you can burn onto the begining of your vcds and the vcd players will play divx for that disc, so really any vcd player is a divx player. so now lotr will fit on one disc!!

are u serieues? do u know where u can get that driver

[JamboLily]

there is a divx driver you can burn onto the begining of your vcds and the vcd players will play divx for that disc, so really any vcd player is a divx player. so now lotr will fit on one disc!!

Tell me! Tell me! Where is this driver? Is this really possible? Thanks for any info.

Jambo

[condone]

Are there no standalone players already on the market that can play AVI-DivX files?

That is correct, no DVD/VCD standalone players can read AVIs, especially those encoded with DivX.

I'm thinking that if the technology is available within common computers ,can't that same technology be used in DVD players?

This is about the only intelligent think you have thought of so far. Yes if a company really wanted to implement an MPEG-4 decoder into a Standalone they could, but they will not. Why? because A) MPEG-4 is owned Microsoft. They have the rights to it and keep it proprietary. B) DivX is an MPEG-4 HACK. if it's hacked, it's not officially recognized, hence it is also illegal. No legit company will implement technology that can get them into trouble legally. And C) most importantly, when Phillips and the other companies made the White Book (VideoCD) standard, they called to use MPEG-1 because it was an ISO recognized format. hence, VCD is an Internationally recognized format, and will be as universally supported as possible.

If your theory is true,then why is it that most of todays DVD players play VCD's (compliant or not).....??Are VCD's not something that you and I can use/manipulate and ultimately play on a DVD player??

DVD players can read VCDs because it is in their specifications. MPEG2(DVD) is an extension of MPEG1 (VCD) therefore it is easily read by the decoder since it is in essence an earlier version of the same thing. MPEG1 is ISO licensed and from that were the White Book (VCD) specifications set out by Philips and several other companies. Now that SVCD and DVD (both MPEG2) are standards, they are also officially recognized. If when creating the White Book Standard back in the late 80s/early 90s, Philips or whoever had said that they wanted AVI (RGB uncompressed of course or any CoDecs) to be the standard, then it would have been the standard, but they didn't, they chose MPEG, live with it.

Oh...and by the way...whos says that all AVI's are hacked other similar??

No one said all AVIs are hacked, just taht DivX is. in referring to DivX we refer to Divx 3.11, the MPEG-4 CoDec hacked by Gej that is commonly used for DVDRips. DivX4 and 5 from DXN (DivXNetworks) may be able to read MPEG-4, but it itself is not MPEG-4 based, it was totally rewritten and has no relation to DivX 3.11 other than the name. It might be "Legal" but its association with DivX 3.11 has doomed it with companies.

there is a divx driver you can burn onto the begining of your vcds and the vcd players will play divx for that disc, so really any vcd player is a divx player. so now lotr will fit on one disc!!

never heard of that. a driver has nothing to do with the way a disc is read, and second off, a DVD standalone would not be able to read the driver, it has no idea what it does, it is not a computer. as for that Statement about LotR, it must be a really shitty rip if its one CD.

"DivX Networks" should have at least asked for pro bono help from a high school finance&marketing class on the name. Now not only are they carrying the failed payperplay DVD technology rep, they are directly related to illegally modified microsoft technology. They may have totally rewritten the current codec's legally but their rep isn't going to do them any favors. With DivX being the most commonly used codec for movie pirating I'm sure the MPAA and the DVD Licencing Committee will wreak havoc on anyone trying to make a DivX compatable standalone dvd player. I was really suprised to see that card have hardware divx decoding. It's a niche product though as I'm sure the people that have a free computer and the knowhow to hook to their tv is extremely small. We could see a compatable dvd player despite the industry's best wishes like has been done with mp3 technology but I'm not holding my breath.

This person knows that they are talking about and i totally agree with them. In conclusion, DivX and similar AVIs can not be read by DVD players simply because the specs set out by the White Book (VCD) and SVCD and DVD standards don't call for it. Quit bitching about it, it's not going to do shit as legit companies will not implement technology that is illegal. DXN's DivX 4 and 5 are not really MPEG-4 and have no relation to DivX3 HACKED by Gej, the illegal, DVD rip version. Anyone who knows how to truly rip will see that DivX4/5 are shit compared to a DivX3 SBC encode, if u say otherwise u have no idea what your doing. If u want to watch your DVD rips on the TV through a DVD Standalone so bad, get an SVCD, the ones taht are distro'd look awesome (as it uses much higher bitrates than most DivX DVD rips), almost like the original DVD, and in alot of cases better than the DivX. plus they are already standalone compatible by nature. If u dont like the fact that an SVCD is 2 or 3 CDs you are really cheap. So what if u dont like to get up after 40 mins and change a CD, its worth it for the difference in quality. By nature, Larger Filesize = Better Quality, whether it be DivX, VCD, SVCD, DVD. So now u can either convert your DivX to SVCD/VCD and lose a good deal of quality, or just simply download an SVCD and quit bitching.

[wee haggis]

Geez...I wish we could all be as smart as you Condone..!!
Unlike you,some of us are just learning all about this VCD / DIVX game and are therefore not as conversant in the aforementioned subject matter.
But for Christ sake..give us a break with the pompous attitude.All I did was ask a simple question.If I wanted a lecture I could go back to college.
In closing ...if you don't have a civil response to give to stalwarts like myself.
Keep your big trap shut!

[shochan]

www.sigmadesigns.com has made a hardware mpeg4 decoder, that maybe one day can be implimented into a dvd player. as for now tho their hollywood plus has another program written for it some were that can output divx to your tv through this card. I have never seen it but I remimber baldrick talking about it. If you email him he might be able to tell you.

here is the mpeg4 decoder url http://www.sigmadesigns.com/products/em8470series.htm

[condone]

i didnt mean to have a pompous attitude, i was simply stating facts. i answered all the questions you had, and telling me to "keep my big trap shut" is a civil response? well the reason i know so much about it is from A) first hand experience of DivX and SVCD encoding and B) form research i did before i began encoding, i looked over several different guides here at VCDHelp, Doom9 and Digital Digest, and tried out different ones for the best results. Though DVD Ripping is a hobby it is one, that like any other sport or hobby, requires much time, effort and patience, to learn and perfect. Theres no one easy and complete answer for DVDRipping, many different aspects are needed to fully understand what goes on, it takes patience to learn and understand.

[Prospero424]

As I understand it, DivX is not illegal per se but it is was abandoned by corporate entities since the discs sold at Circuit city etc. made very little money, especially compared with DVD. It was then "hijacked" by some very good progammers and turned into a hack of the MPEG 4 codec. It has now become something very different in that it is now an open source initiative attemting to simply maximize video quality while minimizing the space taken up by a video file. In doing this, Divx has become VERY processor intensive and the reaso so console DVD players can play Divx has nothing to do with legality but because the current generation (and the next) of DVD players simply don't have the horsepower to play the things. This is also true with MPEG 4 (used very widely for streming video) and is the reason that realmaginc is releasing the first (to my knowledge) consumer level hardware MPEG4 decoder. Once the power consumtion problems are taken care of, I see no reason that this chip shouldn't be used in commercial DVD players. BUT this is not the same thing as having the ability to accelerate Divx movies through hardware since the codec is now so different. If Divx becomes the standard for video storage on the internet as I think it has the potential to do, a company will definitely produce a compatible player becaue, get this THERE"S MONEY TO BE MADE IN THEM THAR HILLS! And a codec itself is NOT illegal, only a copyrighted movie stored in that format without purchase.

[condone]

As I understand it, DivX is not illegal per se but it is was abandoned by corporate entities since the discs sold at Circuit city etc. made very little money, especially compared with DVD. It was then "hijacked" by some very good progammers and turned into a hack of the MPEG 4 codec. It has now become something very different in that it is now an open source initiative attemting to simply maximize video quality while minimizing the space taken up by a video file. In doing this, Divx has become VERY processor intensive and the reaso so console DVD players can play Divx has nothing to do with legality but because the current generation (and the next) of DVD players simply don't have the horsepower to play the things. This is also true with MPEG 4 (used very widely for streming video) and is the reason that realmaginc is releasing the first (to my knowledge) consumer level hardware MPEG4 decoder. Once the power consumtion problems are taken care of, I see no reason that this chip shouldn't be used in commercial DVD players. BUT this is not the same thing as having the ability to accelerate Divx movies through hardware since the codec is now so different. If Divx becomes the standard for video storage on the internet as I think it has the potential to do, a company will definitely produce a compatible player becaue, get this THERE"S MONEY TO BE MADE IN THEM THAR HILLS! And a codec itself is NOT illegal, only a copyrighted movie stored in that format without purchase.

Your confusing 2 issues:
Divx as sold by Circuit City was a pay-per-view form of DVD that is now defunct.
DivX (aka DivX3) is an MPEG-4 CoDec.

Gej took the MPEG-4 CoDec made by Microsoft and chaged the FourCC code along with the file extension. Originally MPEG-4 was an ASF CoDec, but by Gej "hacking" it in a Hex editor to change the File Extension limitation to AVI and make a new FourCC code. This action makes this DivX CoDec (aka DivX3, the true MPEG-4 CoDec) illegal as he modified and distrubuted a product that Microsoft owns the licensing rights to. Stealing, Modifying, and (Re)Distributing a product not licensed to you violates copywrite laws. To further that, as DVDRips are encoded in DivX3, this violates the copyrights of Production companies if you for example, download a DVDRip of a movie encoded in DivX when you don't own the movie. It is only legal to make a backup for yourself if you own the movie (even then it's a gray area in the DMCA). So the DivX CoDec itself is illegal and promotes illegal activity since it is used to encode illegal distrobution of copyrighted material.

On another note TheDivXNetworks (DXN) DivX 4 and 5, though backward compatible with DivX 3 are not themselves MPEG-4. they were wholly created from scratch with implementation to read MPEG-4 and DivX3,4,5 material. The only thing they truely share in common with DivX3 is the name, which is no coincidence, since most people already have heard of DivX, they took the name for recognition.

[Prospero424]

No, I am perfectly clear on these issues, but perhaps I could have been a bit more cogent in my argument. When I was talking about the codec not being illegal, I meant in it's current state. Naturally anything stolen from Microsoft (MPEG4) is off limits to DVD manufacturers (unless they agree to what I am sure is a hefty licensing fee, like Apple, RealNetworks, etc. are doing now, which could happen), but that doesn't mean that the Divx codec is illegal (only Divx3). If the backwards compatibility were taken out of the 4 and 5 codecs, it would be completely legal, and the only barriers to widespread use would be technical. Just because something promotes illegal distribution does not mean that it is off limits to the private sector. Copyrighted MPEG2, MPG1, Real, and Quicktime encoded movies are flying around the interenet, promoting the distribution of illegal copyrighted material, but they are perfectly "legal" formats. The only thing seperating the current generation of Divx from these formats legally is that the codec is not copyrighted so no one can be held unjustly accoutable for its abuse. Good. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[droolian01]

wee hagis, i'm really very amused by your responses, please read this
http://forum.vcdhelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=80074&highlight=
especially double images third point.
Condone, i find your 'lecture' very informative, and strangely enough i don't feel the need to insult you (probably because i am grateful and not intimidated by your knowledge).

I am using a scan converter right now, and it works briliantly. I got it from jungle.com ages ago. I found it by searching for it, starting with the pointers to the left in the green section named 'play'

[wee haggis]

Listen droolian......lets put this to bed.
I asked a simple question(being a learner at this game)...
I got response (albeit sarcastic)...
I in turn responded....
end of story.
I certainly don't need you to toss in your 2 cents worth.
Is my question answered directly in the Help columns to the right?
No,not directlyThats why I ask the question in the foru.
You DO know what a Forum is for ,Right?
Asking questions and having open and frank conversations.
Its not for smart arse persons like you to throw in a useless and unhelpful comment.
If you don't have anything civil or helpful to say..do'nt say nothin!
Theres many unfortunate souls out there who need your almighty wisdom......NOT!
I've been helped many times by in this Forum by individuals who want nothing more than to enlighten folks such as myself.Maybe you should take a leaf from their book and attempt to do the same.
Is COndone inteligent and informative?.......Yes
Does he know what he's talking about?........Yes
Did he respond in an appropriate manner?....No.
Have I learned anything from his response?...Yes
The End...please !!

[kon]

my 2 cents:

1. MPEG4 is a standard similar to mpeg1 and 2.
2. Divx(the codec) started its life as a crack/modification of Microsoft’s implementation of the mpeg4 standard, which in fact is not compliant with the ISO standard.
3. since version 4.xx the divx codec is an independent, legal IMPLEMANTATION of the mpeg4 standard which does comply to the ISO standard.
4. Chips capable of decoding/encoding mpeg4 streams already exist.
5. It's safe to say that in the near future we will see stand alone units with these chips.
6. They will defiantly not be able to play AVI files (with whatever codec).
7. They might be able to play MPEG4 files (mp4) as implemented in the latest Divx 5(pro)
8. Its worth remembering that all DVD players can play MPEG2 material, but that there are strict specification regarding resolution and bit rate. It would be naive to think that mpeg4 would be different. As these specifications (for DVD players) have not been finalized yet its impossible to correctly author mpeg4 material for future use with certainty.
9. There is a small possibility that some unit will emerge that plays almost any mpeg4 stream(not avi) thrown at it, but there is no certainty.

[Ashtrader2000]

Wee Haggis

The answer IS infact in the menu to the left. Take a look under DVD Players.

But you're right. This is a forum, and you should be able to ask even the dummest questions without people bitching.

Just one bit of advice:
Using forums for many years have tought me to automatically ignore certain posts (sometimes even certain people); There will always be people, with a little less than 2 bits worth of knowledge, who use forums to pray on newbies with serious questions to boost their own ego a bit. Maybe they need to do it!?! Who knows!? If it helps their sorry souls, then what's the harm! JUST IGNORE THEM!!! Certainly don't post replies. Just focus on the useable material, like Condone's knowledge. There is something one can use, and if his comments seem offending to you, so what! You got your answer! And remember: Forum replies are not personal!

Ashtrader

[wee haggis]

Thankyou Ashtrader for your sincere comments.
I did look in the help section you mentioned and hey-presto it was listed under Players>DivX.
I just wonder sometimes why some guys don't just answer the question (if they know the answer ..like yourself) instead of going off on a tangent (as if it gives them some kind of perverse pleasure seeing newbies like myself quiver at their superior knowledge).
And...you are absolutely correct in saying that I am my own worse enemy when it comes to "reacting" to these individuals.
Any way...thanks again ..I wish they were all as decent and polite as you were.

[nutty_hamster]

why some guys don't just answer the question

Actually vhelp, condone, shochan, and Ashtrader did. Some were lengthy, some were short, but all answered your questions.

What exactly did I say that was incorrect???

Some of the posters, especially condone, did just that, pointed out the mistakes. if you don't like being wrong i don't know what to say.

I can do without the sarcasm...thankyou very much....
...
give us a break with the pompous attitude
...
If you don't have anything civil or helpful to say..do'nt say nothin!

Well you ask to be respected then come back with such comments as:
"If you don't have anything civil or helpful to say..do'nt say nothin!"
"Keep your big trap shut!"
"Ok smart arse!!...answer? "
"Where do you get your high almighty theories from??"
"I certainly don't need you to toss in your 2 cents worth."
now the shoes on the other foot. if you don't want peoples "2 cents worth," don't post.

Lastly, i think droolian01 had a great point.
Mirror_Image's post http://forum.vcdhelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=80074&highlight= was a great guide for new posters. We should all follow his guide to the best of our ability, the way wee haggis did.

[nutty_hamster]

sorry, accidently a double-post, see im a newbie too