Camcorder help?

[ingeborgdot]

As the previous thread said, this is an over used question. What camcorder should I get? But that is what a forum is for. You look at the previous posts and if nothing suits your needs you POST.
My question is: Is there an HD camcorder that is worth it for under $700. I don't know what format I want. I am not sure which is best. Is SD card, HDD, miniDV??? I have read review after review and everyone has something different to say. What kinds of info do you want me to give so anyone on here with wisdom would be able to help out a poor, suffering know nothing like me.

[MJA]

like I told the others.sadly consumers HDV(mindv) cams are going away,but not the pro line

if you are not into editing and you want something for the kids,vacation stuff like that just get a Panasonic HDC-TM55K(8GB on board),or Canon VIXIA HF M31(32BG on board) both under $500.

http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-HDC-TM55K-Hi-Def-Camcorder-Intelligent/dp/B0035LD08U/r...f=pd_rhf_p_t_4

go to bestbuy and check it out before u buy it on line.u may not like the size of both if u have big hands,not like minDv ones

pix of the Panasonic (flash memory) and Canon HV-20(minidv)

[edDV]

Figure into cost the flash ram which is 10-15x more expensive per hour than MiniDV tape (HDV format). The more video you intend to shoot (especially on long vacations) the more important this is.

If you intend to do serious editing, figure in the cost of software and/or computer hardware upgrade.

Third, what are you going to use for HD playback? Do you own a Blu-Ray player or HD media player? Figure that into the cost as well.

[ingeborgdot]

So, what will people buy if there are no camcorders to buy? How will they be able to record things? I just want a nice camera that will capture nice moments. I will have a nice computer for video editing this summer when a I make it. i7-2600 oc to 3.8 or higher. It should really rock. The hdd will be an SSD drive for extra speed. I won't have any problem editing HD but just looking for options and info from nice people like you.

[edDV]

So, what will people buy if there are no camcorders to buy?

There are many camcorders and digital cameras with video capability. Most consumers buy one with no thought to workflow. They get stuck when they bump up against computer technology. Very few consumers ever edit video.

[ingeborgdot]

But computers will be able to handle this in the future with no problem what so ever. The early computers had a hard time rendering sd, now they can do it in minutes. The new computers will handle hd pretty easily in the next two years. I just want a nice hd camera that will take nice video.

[edDV]

But computers will be able to handle this in the future with no problem what so ever. The early computers had a hard time rendering sd, now they can do it in minutes. The new computers will handle hd pretty easily in the next two years. I just want a nice hd camera that will take nice video.

But you said $700 limit so that focused discussion to low end models. Subtract ~$100 for flash media and ~$100 for software and that leaves you with one or two low end AVCHD or used HDV cams.

Camera/corders will continue to improve and drop in price. Buy something simple now, learn the ropes, then get something better when you know what features you need.

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/Buying-Guides.htm
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/ratings.php

[ingeborgdot]

I said 700 for the camcorder. What software? I have Sony Vegas Pro already. Is the HV 40 and option?

[ingeborgdot]

I know I said 700 but the Panasonic HDC-TM700 looks like a nice machine also. It's very close to 700.

Maybe a person could get a used HV40 for a great price. Know where that would be?

[edDV]

I said 700 for the camcorder. What software? I have Sony Vegas Pro already. Is the HV 40 and option?

I like the HV40. It is a true mini pro cam with similar features to my other higher end prosumer HDV cams. It also can go live in DV or HDV format over IEEE-1394 for web broadcasting. This is a feature lacking in all AVCHD format cams. Disadvantage is tape media and relative size (see photo above) but overall a great value.

Also, currently Vegas Pro will smart render HDV format but not AVCHD. Every AVCHD frame gets re-encoded. You can cut edit HDV to Blu-Ray and maintain camera first generation. Any transitions or filtered frames must be re-encoded by definition.

[ingeborgdot]

I am not sure what cut edit is for sure but it sounds like and HV40 would be my best bet. Know of any places that have great deals on these things. Anywhere to even find a used one?

[edDV]

Cut edit is a simple cut without transitions or effects.

You need to use internet shopping skills for the best price. Alternates are the HV30 and HV20. The main differences are 24p and 30p modes. There is a forum for these cams see www.HV20.com

Used see ebay and craigslist.

[MJA]

$699

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-VIXIA-HV40-Camcorder-Optical/dp/B001OI2Z4Q/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_cart_1

$649 B&H.I bought my Panasonic from them

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/597424-REG/Canon_3686B001_VIXIA_HV40_High_Definition.html

[2Bdecided]

It makes a huge difference whether you're planning on shooting film-like stuttery 24p/25p, or video-like smooth 50i/60i/50p/60p.

I've had an HV20 since 2007. I shoot 50i. (I hate the 25p film look for home videos - it's too stuttery IMO. YMMV!)

I've been looking at the Panasonic HDC-TM700. The Panasonic delivers far better pictures all round.

The HV20 is good enough for most of today's HDTVs - well shot sequences easily look better than most broadcast HD.

The 700 is clearly next generation technology, and you're jumping in near the beginning of it. Expect the usual pain of being an early adopter. BUT the image quality is better, and the HV20/30/40 have some quirks you can do without! Most of the love you read on the net for the HV20 is from amateur film makers because of the film-like 24p/25p capability. However, if you want 50p/60p, then you have no choice but to jump to the newer technology. If you are happy with 50i/60i, then HV20 is fine, but other lesser praised HDV camcorders (without 24p/25p) are probably fine too.

btw, though 1920x1080p60 footage is going to be painful to edit, at least you have the full resolution without having to deinterlace. From HDV you get 1440x1080i60. Far quicker to edit, but lower quality and painful to bump up to pristine 1920x1080p60 if you need to.

Cheers,
David.

[ingeborgdot]

Yeah, I understand that. I don't know what to do. Do I go with the easier to edit lower quality (which is still pretty nice stuff) or with a next generation harder to edit one that is a higher quality??? I am really going to have to look hard at this and make sure I look carefully at all the options.

[2Bdecided]

Depends how soon you want to edit it, and on what.

Tapes are going away. Prefer them or not, the choice isn't whether to switch, it's when.

If an HV40 has worn or damaged or dirty heads, you'll get drop-outs. Drop-outs on HDV are catastrophic - you totally lose 0.5 seconds of video + audio. About one per tape seems to be typical for a working camera. Some people report none. Some report more.

I'd buy the Panasonic. And several HDDs! The one thing that puts me off is that the microphones are on top. Microphones work far better facing the sound you want to capture!

Cheers,
David.

[dbanimal]

I have also been in the market for a new HD camcorder, my price is a bit higher at ~$1000. My PC is plenty powerful for editing and I have already been editing HD recorded from my DVR so that's not a problem. I have over 6TB's of storage so no problem there either. I've been using my Sony DVD Handycam since '06 but I want higher quality, especially HD. My son is now 1 1/2 years old and I want higher quality footage without having to go to a professional level camera. I want something up to date. Any suggestions for me?

Edit: I would probably like to avoid tape, so how about flash and HDD?
What's more reliable betwen flash media and HDD?

[dbanimal]

OK, so I have done some searching on the best HD camcorders and the Panasonic HDC-TM700 shows up on all the lists and is even the number one pick in a few compared to it's Sony and Canon competitors.

So here's my question: I want the best quality footage that I an acquire at which would be 60p. I want to then be able to edit the video on my PC using a combination of VideoRedo TVSuite V3 and Sony VMS9 PPP (or Vegas Pro 10 if need be), then I want to burn my videos to Blu-ray as I already have a burner and media. I'm hearing this may not be possible if the recordings are at 60p?? Is this true, and if so, what would have to be modified in Vegas to make this work...or do I have to record at 24p?

Thanks in advance!

[dbanimal]

*cricket* *cricket*

Any thoughts?

[handyguy]

Saw this for $299 at Amazon, but it's not on sale now:
Panasonic HDC-SD600K 3MOS High-Def Camcorder with 35mm Wide-Angle Lens and 18x Intelligent Zoom (Black)

Reviews said that even a quad core can barely play it.

[edDV]

Blue-Ray doesn't support 1080p/60 fps. It does support

1280x720p/59.94 which it scales to 1920x1080p/59.94
1440x1080i/29.97 which it inverse telecines and H scales to 1920x1080p/59.94
1920x1080i/29.97 which it inverse telecines and 1920x1080p/59.94
1920x1080p/23.976 which it passes to the TV directly or at 1920x1080i/29.97 or 1920x1080p/59.94

[dbanimal]

Thanks for the response edDV!

Will I be able to down convert it within Vegas so I can burn to Blu-Ray? The reason why I would record at 60p is because I'm using my PS3 as a media center and I heard the PS3 will play it, so most of the time I would just be streaming it from my PC to my PS3 to my TV but would like to be able to burn it to Blu-ray as well.

[edDV]

Thanks for the response edDV!

Will I be able to down convert it within Vegas so I can burn to Blu-Ray? The reason why I would record at 60p is because I'm using my PS3 as a media center and I heard the PS3 will play it, so most of the time I would just be streaming it from my PC to my PS3 to my TV but would like to be able to burn it to Blu-ray as well.

Vegas will convert 1920x1080p/59.94 but with a recode loss. Don't know about PS3 buy many media players will handle 60p.

You are out on the fringe so be prepared.

[ingeborgdot]

What do you mean by out on the fringe so be prepared?

[edDV]

What do you mean by out on the fringe so be prepared?

1920x1080p/59.94 is not yet supported for broadcast or Blu-Ray.

To get to that frame rate at that resolution you need to accept both higher compression and additional recode loss. There are special cases where 1080p/59.94 makes sense (e.g. sports motion analysis). Otherwise you are out there.

[dbanimal]

Thanks! I have decided to order the camcorder and will do some testing with it.

[ingeborgdot]

Which camcorder?

[dbanimal]

Hdc-tm700

[edDV]

Hdc-tm700

Please report back. I'd consider buying one but I need the live HDV capability.

[2Bdecided]

To get to that frame rate at that resolution you need to accept both higher compression and additional recode loss.

I know theoretically it's high compression (fewer Mbps per pixel), but in practice the picture quality is just better than HDV (AFAICT - I don't own one).

Cheers,
David.