Best deinterlace method

[Lastman369]

Hello everyone,
I'd like to know what the best way is to deinterlace THIS source video?
For a long time, I used Virtualdubmod's built-in "deinterlace/blend fields together" option, but recently realized that Yadif can provide a much sharper outcome (see examples


VirtualDubMod/deinterlace:


with Yadif:


However, you might also see the bad side of Yadif: it leaves some noise (this might not be right word for it), which can be annoying in videos (mainly in the background in close-ups).
So, is there a way to remove that "noise" from Yadif-deinterlaced clips? E.g. some filters / settings in Virtualdub ?
Or should I stick with the original VdubMod deinterlacing?
Looking forward to your reply.

(PS: 2 different encodes of the same source video (not the one I posted above!), using the 2 different deinterlace modes:
http://rapidshare.com/files/320024860/2009-12-12_Barcelona_vs_Espanyol_1-0.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/320038656/1-0-ibra_vdub-deinterlace.avi )

[poisondeathray]

If it's just the background noise that bothers you , you might use a denoiser after the deinterlace filter e.g. msu denoiser or neat video. You can adjust the strength to your tastes. The background noise is in the source, it's just that when you use a blend filter, the noise is reduced.

Yadif is notorious for leaving dot jaggie artifacts or "marching ants", but it's the best "built in" deinterlacer for vdub IMO.

If you use avisynth, you have access to dozens of other deinterlacers, some are much better in quality than yadif, but also slower to process

[Lastman369]

Thanks again
I'll try MSU denoiser first. Does it make processing much slower?

Oh, and could you name some of the best avisynth deinterlacers?

[poisondeathray]

yes, denoisers are typically slow and become the bottleneck. The MSU denoiser can take advantage of you graphics card to accelerate, if you have a comatible one

tempgaussmc_beta1 , mcbob, yadifmod+nnedi2

yadif is very fast, maybe 30-40x faster than these ones, but they produce better quality for most sources YMMV

here is an old comparison of deinterlacers in bob mode (double rate)
https://forum.videohelp.com/images/guides/p1934885/stockholma_0-520_q3_yadif_mvbobmod_t...mca4_tdtmm.avi

avisynth also has dozens of denoisers, highly configurable, some are better suited for some specific sources

[Lastman369]

Thanks a lot. I must admit most times these highly configurable things are just too complicated for me, though.

[poisondeathray]

Well you asked for "best" way for that source, and the answer is there is no "best" way.

But you can tweak and configure it with different filters to get better results than you are getting now. Every source is different and may require different strategies. You might even filter different sections with different combinations of filters. It just depends how much effort you are willing to put into it, how much time you want to "waste"

If that sample video above wasn't enough to convince you:

Note the "dots" in the field line markings. They alternate and "buzz" like marching ants on susbeqent frames. The advertisements in the billboards have artifacts. TGMC also blurs a bit to get rid of intertwine twitter, so it has the "side effect" of denoising which may be beneficial on noisy footage

Yadif


Yadifmod+NNEDI2


TempGaussMC_Beta1

[Lastman369]

Yeah, you're absolutely right, but I'll be lost if I go into settings so deeply. I just can't ask "what if set this or that parameter as 82?" all the time.. Also, my time for conversion is limited (being a part-time soccer capper, I must finish encoding before the next playround's start), so I don't want to make processing very slow. A decent quality with easy settings is enough for, I'm not an HD encoder after all.
Once again, thanks for your help! If I wanna improve something, I'll ask for your advice.

Edit:OMG, those pics are really impressive!

[poisondeathray]

Yes, there are always tradeoffs for speed vs. quality. And yadif is probably the fastest that gives "decent" quality. Just be aware that there are other options

Cheers

[Lastman369]

Hi again!

I tried msu denoiser first. I could notice some difference, and it did not slow down the encoding process, but in the end I decided to try one of the 2 slow and more precise methods you mentioned above (preferably the less slow one).
It's a pity I don't know how to use them... So, could you make a step-by-step guide for the use of Yadifmod+NNEDI2 (or post a link to one)?
What I'm asking for is a guide to install Yadifmod and NNedi2; and an example avs script in which in don't have to change many things to make it work for me..

I hope I'm not asking too much...

[poisondeathray]

Are all your sources the same format as your example ? (e.g. MPEG2 , same field order etc...)

Did you want to double rate or single rate deinterlace? i.e 50p vs. 25p

I'll post some instructions and a template later today

[Lastman369]

1) Yes, I always use the same format as the sample I posted above.

2) I would go for single rate (25p) deinterlace. I've always had problems playing 50fps files.

Thanks in advance and sorry for being such a noob!

[poisondeathray]

1) Install avisynth , download Yadifmod, and NNEDI2.
http://web.missouri.edu/~kes25c/

Copy nnedi2.dll into the avisynth/plugins folder, and dgdecode.dll from DGMPGDec, and they will be autoloading into your script

Yadifmod has to be loaded manually (see below)

2) Use DGIndex to index your vob file. If you have multiple, you can join (append) them in the open dialog box. Set video=>honor pulldown flags, file=>save project. This will produce a .d2v file and demux your audio

3) Create an text file in notepad in the same directory as your video, copy the following, adjusting the filenames and paths to match. Save it, then rename the .txt extension to .avs

LoadPlugin("PATH\yadifmod.dll")
MPEG2Source("vob.d2v")
interp=nnedi2(field=1) #same rate, keep top field
yadifmod(order=1, field=-1, mode=0, edeint=interp) #TFF, field set to order, same rate
Crop(0,70,0,-78)

If you wanted to, you could add other filters (e..g you said your were concerned about the noise so you might add a denoise filter). I cropped black borders , but if you have different content, you might need different crop values, so play with the script so you understand what's going on.

A good tool to learn about scripts and previewing filters is AvsP.

All of the avisynth and it's filters have full documentation if you need more info on the switches and setting.

4) You can open that .avs file in vdub or any encoder that accepts avs scripts. If you are only using vdub to encode (ie. no vdub filters), you can use video=>fast recompress , which bypasses the YV12=>RGB=>YV12 conversion. If you have other filtering tasks other than simple cutting, you could do them with avisynth, but if you use a vdub filter, you need full processing mode.

Cheers

[Lastman369]

Thanks again, it worked perfectly!
Now (hopefully) my last question is: what Avisynth denoiser(s) do you recommend for this type of source & deinterlacing? MSU denoiser did a good job for me, but made Vdub crash when I tried to modify the settings I made earlier (I had to delete filter and add again with different settings), plus I'd like to use MeGui instead of Vdub.
If you could write a short script like the previous one, I'd be really grateful, too.

[poisondeathray]

Sorry for the late reply, I was away for holidays

Yes, there are dozens of choices for denoisers. Some target specific types of noise, some work temporally , some strong, some are weak etc...
It's really up to you to decide how much you want to denoise, because it's personal preference, and it takes a lot of trial&error to get it perfect.

http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/External_filters#Denoisers

A generic all purpose denoiser would be fft3dfilter
http://avisynth.org.ru/fft3dfilter/fft3dfilter.html

There are lots of settings to adjust (see the documentation), but start with the sigma value, higher means stronger, lower means weaker. Read the bolded instructions , because you need FFTW3.DLL in the system path

Note, I didn't resize in the previous example, so the AR is a bit off. If you resize to 704x400, it will be close to 1.76, and mod16 compliant. So here is an example of what it might look like:

LoadPlugin("C:\PATH\yadifmod.dll")
MPEG2Source("FRA_chunk_1.d2v")
interp=nnedi2(field=1) 
yadifmod(order=1, field=-1, mode=0, edeint=interp)
Crop(0,70,0,-78)
LanczosResize(704,400)
FFT3DFilter(sigma=3)

While denoising helps compressibility (smaller filesize for a certain level of "quality"), if you're not careful, you can erode too many details. So test your script (i.e. preview in avsp or vdub before encoding) and tweak the settings to your tastes. Often people add a weak sharpener after denoising.

[Lastman369]

Well I've just tried it with both Yadif and yadifmod+nnedi2 deinterlaced videos, and I'm really satisfied with it. The only extra thing I set was "sharpen=0.3" - tbh I don't know how much difference it makes but the outcome was really good for me.
As for the AR, I've been resizing my caps to 624x352 for 2 years, so it wasn't a problem this time.
I guess this is my last post in this thread for a while, so once again, thanks a lot for your patience and help!

[manono]

The only extra thing I set was "sharpen=0.3" - tbh I don't know how much difference it makes but the outcome was really good for me.

For future reference, FFT3DFilter has its own sharpener you can use. I'm not a big fan of AviSynth's built-in sharpener. You can just add a Sharpen=0.5 or whatever value you like:

FFT3DFilter(Sigma=3,Sharpen=0.5)

[MShoulerUK]

I've been using Yadif to deinterlace a video, using the setting top field first.

Load_Stdcall_Plugin("C:\Documents and Settings\Mike\My Documents\Downloads\MeGUI_0.3.5_x86_WithoutInstaller_OfflinePackage\tools\yadif\yadif.dll")
Yadif(order=1)
LanczosResize(720,400) # Lanczos (Sharp)

What setting should i be using on Yadifmod+NNEDI2, is this correct?

LoadPlugin("C:\Documents and Settings\Mike\My Documents\Downloads\MeGUI_0.3.5_x86_WithoutInstaller_OfflinePackage\tools\avisynth_plugin\nnedi2.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Documents and Settings\Mike\My Documents\Downloads\yadifmod_v1\yadifmod\yadifmod.dll")
interp=nnedi2(field=1) 
yadifmod(order=1, field=-1, mode=0, edeint=interp)
LanczosResize(720,400) # Lanczos (Sharp)

Thanks for any help, appreciated.

[poisondeathray]

@MshoulderUK - yes, that's correct but you should replace with NNEDI3, which is faster and has various CPU optimizations (at the time of writing above, it wasn't optimized and slower than NNEDI2)

For NNEDI2/3: field=1 is single rate, top field first
For yadifmod: order=1 is top field first, mode=0 is single rate

You could also use QTGMC ; on it's faster presets, it's faster and produces better quality than yadifmod+nnedi3. It also has way more custom options

[MShoulerUK]

Thanks for the advice poisondeathray.

Been messing around with QTGMC v3.0 for the last few days. My computer realistically can only use the preset mode "Ultra Fast", as the one below "Super Fast" produces a encoding rate of under 1.0 fps, and I really don't want to have to wait days between each DVD encode. Have to say that even on the Ultra Fast preset it's only marginally faster then Yadifmod+NNEDI2, but then my computer is 5 years old after all.

So I have a question, how does the Ultra Fast preset on QTGMC compare to Yadifmod+NNEDI2?

Or maybe it's just a case that I need to replace my 5 year old computer with something more modern.