Premiere Pro CS5 Green Bar, Smooth Playback, Choppy Export

[bowmah]

So, I am having a choppy export issue on H.264 files (1080p 30 frames and 1080p 60 frames). Source material is mixed but the sequence is generated by dragging the 1080 60p raw file to the new sequence icon. Photos and SD maternal in the export (mp4) is not is not choppy but some 1080 60p sections are choppy at 1080p while smooth in a 720p export. Hardware is Win 7 64 bit, 4 Gigs of RAM. Before we get to the hardware too slow answers, I was able to render the entire timeline so the CS5 bar is green. Playback within PP CS5 is absolutely smooth even at full screen (24 inch monitor). Only the exports are sometimes choppy in some HD scenes. I have tried copying and pasting to a new sequence with no luck. When I reinsert the HD raw material and do a new export, it seems to help but I just cannot get a full video to be smooth on export; some parts are choppy. CS5 is running on the OS drive and temp files are all on a separate, internal HDD. Disabling the mercury playback (hardware) engine shows no difference. Also tried "Remove Flicker" for each HD clip, still does not help. Does anyone know what else I can do to try to get a smooth export?

[poisondeathray]

are you saying even re-importing the export and it's choppy?

or how are you determining it's "choppy" ? what media player? what decoder?

what settings used for export ?


system specs ?

Photos and SD maternal in the export (mp4) is not is not choppy but some 1080 60p sections are choppy at 1080p while smooth in a 720p export.

if the sequence was rendered and played back choppy at 1080p but not at 720p, this strongly suggests a playback issue, like a single threaded decoder

[bowmah]

are you saying even re-importing the export and it's choppy?

or how are you determining it's "choppy" ? what media player? what decoder?

what settings used for export ?


system specs ?

Photos and SD maternal in the export (mp4) is not is not choppy but some 1080 60p sections are choppy at 1080p while smooth in a 720p export.

if the sequence was rendered and played back choppy at 1080p but not at 720p, this strongly suggests a playback issue, like a single threaded decoder

I have not tried re-importing the choppy export. Watching the mp4 using Windows Media Player, Windows Media Player Classic and even XBMC all result in choppiness during the same HD sections. the 720p export is smooth (with the exception of the 30p "choppiness" as the source is 60p.).

Settings is HDTV 1080 30 p (29.97) preset. I just choose custom FPS at 60 (59.94). Raw HD content is 59.94 fps.

The issue is, after rendering with a green bar inside PPro, playback inside PPro is smooth. Just the export is choppy. System is Quad Core 600 + 4 Gigs of RAM in a 64 bit environment. Hacked CUDA so that the GT 240 video card is recognized by PPro CS5 but disabling the Mercury Playback engine so encoding is purely from CPU results in the same thing. Like I said, playback after rendering if very smooth. Export is not.

I am hoping there is a fix / setting somewhere. Anyone have any ideas that I can try?

[poisondeathray]

If you exported a 720p60 version, and it plays back fine, It sounds like a playback problem (decoder not fast enough for 1080p60)

Can you play 1080p60 in WMP ok? The native clips ?

Try MPCHC or KMplayer on the exported file . If you used mpc, did you use ffdshow ffmpeg-mt for avc ? The "libavcodec" setting is single threaded only, and will produce choppy playback

BTW, 30p sections in 60p export should play "choppy" - because frames are either duplicated or blended (if you have clip blend on)

Like I said, playback after rendering if very smooth. Export is not.

The rendered green bar bears no indication on the export. All this means is you encoded a low quality mpeg version file for preview. So of course playback within premiere should be smooth...

Everything you've stated suggests your computer or decoder is to slow

[bowmah]

If you exported a 720p60 version, and it plays back fine, It sounds like a playback problem (decoder not fast enough for 1080p60)

Can you play 1080p60 in WMP ok? The native clips ?

Try MPCHC or KMplayer on the exported file . If you used mpc, did you use ffdshow ffmpeg-mt for avc ? The "libavcodec" setting is single threaded only, and will produce choppy playback

BTW, 30p sections in 60p export should play "choppy" - because frames are either duplicated or blended (if you have clip blend on)

Like I said, playback after rendering if very smooth. Export is not.

The rendered green bar bears no indication on the export. All this means is you encoded a low quality mpeg version file for preview. So of course playback within premiere should be smooth...

Everything you've stated suggests your computer or decoder is to slow

Yes, raw 108060p files play fine in Windows 7 WMP. Fullscreen, very smooth. Let me export a 72060p file now to test. I am afraid to hear that the hardware is too slow!

So how do I change MPCHC settings that you suggested. If you can share some details, I would love to test it out now. I have some 60i and 30p clips in the 60p exported video, they are a little "choppy" but looks like film. Some of the 60p stuff is major choppy and looks liek something is not right. I am still hopeful I can get this to work, with all of your help!

By the way, there is an option is use "Preview Files" during the export. I would think PPRo would build a high res version of the preview files if you can use it in the export?

[poisondeathray]

No - If you can playback the native 1080p60 clips from the camera with your old configuration, then it's unlikely a hardware issue.

Post a video sample to show what you mean by "choppy". Are they the 1080p30 sections ? If so , then that couuld be "normal" from frame duplication or frame blending (because you don't have 60 samples per second in those sections, so it has to make up frames from somewhere, either blending or duplicating neighboring frames causing choppiness)

If the 720p60 export has the same choppy sections this is probably what's happening

in MPCHC options => internal filters => transform filters => checkmark h264/avc (ffmpeg) => double click and enable decoding threads = 4 for a quad core

By the way, there is an option is use "Preview Files" during the export. I would think PPRo would build a high res version of the preview files if you can use it in the export?

Don't use it . If you have that checkmarked, it uses that low quality version for the "master" instead of the original quality files. The preview files are meant to be lower quality, so you can get better preview performance. The only time you might use it is for a low quality draft version you want to send out quickly (so you don't have to waste time re-rendering)

[bowmah]

So here is the result. 720 60p exported mp4 files play buttery smooth. They are just not as sharp as the 1080 60p version. At this point, I am almost ready to throw in the towel and chaulk it up to inferior hardware to encode the 1080 60p content. Unless anyone else have any more ideas or tips. By the way, the choppiness in the exported 1080 60p files only occur in some 1080 60p clips. Occurs most in panning or motion shots. Tried that tweak in MPC but it looks like the choppiness is inside the exported file and not with the playback. Any more ideas?

[poisondeathray]

Then that would suggest a playback problem

If you export MPEG2 1080p60 , does it still stutter? (MPEG2 is easier on the CPU to decode) - If that fixes the problem, then it's most likely a "horsepower" issue

Were the panning shots derived from the 1080p60 or 1080p30 source clips ? I guess it doesn't matter, because even if they were derived from 1080p30 source clips , the 720p60 export should be just as choppy in those sections if the choppiness was due to frame blend/duplication

What you can try is make sure you clear the media cache in the options before exporting (also make sure not to use preview files). I've seen it on older versions premiere and AE where some frames get mixed up because it uses old cache files. Adobe forums also suggest this when the out-of-order frames appear. But I don't know if that's what you have. You can step through the export , looking for out of order frames or dupes. - If there are problems like this, then it is a rendering issue +/- a playback issue as well

[bowmah]

Then that would suggest a playback problem

Were the panning shots derived from the 1080p60 or 1080p30 source clips ? I guess it doesn't matter, because even if they were derived from 1080p30 source clips , the 720p60 export should be just as choppy in those sections if the choppiness was due to frame blend/duplication

What you can try is make sure you clear the media cache in the options before exporting (also make sure not to use preview files). I've seen it on older versions premiere and AE where some frames get mixed up because it uses old cache files. Adobe forums also suggest this when the out-of-order frames appear. But I don't know if that's what you have. You can step through the export , looking for out of order frames or dupes.

I have tried that already but will try it again. I see there is an option to delete rendered files but I still see Preview Files in the temp directory. What I am doing now is choose not to use the GPU and only use the CPU to run PPro. This gives me a popup to delete all preview files from the project. Exporting again in 1080 60p and crossing my fingers.

ADd on: Just tried MPEG2 export but it does not allow me to choose 60p. only 30p.

[poisondeathray]

encode something else then, like xvid (which is also not cpu heavy)

or even a lossless avi, then use a different mpeg2 or xvid encoder

You're trying to see if it's a rendering problem (like frames out of order, that type of thing) vs. CPU horsepower playback issue

[bowmah]

ok, I have tried a bunch of settings including a WMV format at 60p. Nothing worked well to smooth out the rough spots until I lowered target the default bitrate from 32 mbps to 20 mbps. have not tried 25 yet but at 20mbps, all video is smooth again for a 1080 60p export (h.264). Now the issue is, finding a good enough computer to watch these videos on a large LCD monitor! Thanks for all the tips and thank goodness, this worked!